Virtua Fighter Strategy Thread

Classic Fighting Games Other Games
21

Where was DandyJ again? What kind of Kage stuff did you have? I have played with him not very long but my strategy is to play by positioning myself for ringouts off TFT. Many better players expect this so they either tech or don’t even get put in the situation to begin with. So I’ve searched for alternatives and also as a habit, I have been purposely playing on fenced stages to train myself to do the other options. The problem is…what do you do? Basically how do you play kage the moralist way? I had a hard enough time w/Jacky but his stance makes it a bit easier to hit check things (at least to me). Kage doesn’t really have that. The other thing is…how do you incorporate his stances? Like I heard Lau for example only has like 2 things out of his special stance (I forgot it’s name)…and that it’s not really that great. I usually don’t use Kage’s P+K+G stance unless it’s after a juggle that I end in something like PP6P(hold P) and then run in and do something. Also on wakeup that stance can beat rising kicks with either K+G over the low one or P+K+G for the mid one. I can’t really see other uses for it, maybe you can enlighten us? I actually tend to use the new stance more (6P+K+G) but only because it’s “new” and not many people I play against know all the moves out of it. So I just use every option at least once to show them what’s possible. Any tips are appreciated.

Edit: I prolly should call them Jumonji and Shippujin?

22

I know some basic “American” Kage cheese that will help you out a bit.

From what I’ve seen as far as full wall stages are concerned, most Kage players use this combo:

advancing Px# > PP4PK > 6K (his knee unless it’s a different command) > 3K (down attack)

Try to advance with the jabs till you get him close to the wall then use the string to knock him into the wall and 6K while he is falling to the ground, should guarantee the ground attack. I think it does some pretty good damage too so try it.

As far as playing him morally goes…

6P 6P 6P…

If you run into anything -11 to -13 use his PK to shippu stance and pwn them, it seems to work for alot of Kage players.

P>6P-

Wether punch hits or is blocked you should have enough advantage to stuff low punch or 12 frame jabs with eblow, if your elbow hits go to shippu or press with another mid throw situation.

P>3PP

Some of the faster characters will try to jab out of the elbow nonsense, you can own them with 3PP which will combo on normal hit and completely goes through high attacks. Learn the combos for it, it’s a devastating move.

From what I’ve heard 4K is really really good, especially if you nail people with it on MC. The move sabaki’s for a short time and puts you in BT where you can do either Kage’s cheap low crumple kick, 0 frame throw, continue string, or other BT nonsense, Kage’s BT is really strong.

Also learn to use Shippu stance, definately. Shippu stance is pretty freaking safe (at least from my perspective) and can yeild amazing amounts of damage. Spam it a long with elbow, 3PP, and of course TFT.

23

Lei Fei’s top? Whahappened?

24

A lot… ask Sextaro.

But to summarize, he does more damage of his combos, more damage of his throws, has some really annoying set ups, and some moves that make absolutely no sense in the world of VF but yeah Lei is mad dog crazy.

25

This is a great thread, and I have a couple questions…

In 3-D games (Tekken and VF), the number of moves can be between 100-200, is it required that you learn all these moves, and will you be using most of them in battle (I’ve heard that in Tekken, you only really need 10% of the moves, as the others are useless and put you in huge frame disadvantage.)

In some fighting games, you come to certain situations where you have to guess, but in some fighting games, guessing is a huge part of winning, is this the case with VF?

How is high level VF played like, is it zoning (doesn’t look like this one to me, from the videos I’ve seen), footsies, getting frame-advantage, mix-ups, what is it like?

Thanks for your time, I’m trying to get an idea of what the high level players are trying to do when they play, so that I’m not left confused.

26

Well not totally true. In Tekken you don’t need many moves at all, just what you need to win. You could play VF in the same fashion but you wouldn’t be very good (even if you spammed Kage).

In VF you don’t necessarily need to know every move but there are a lot more moves that are useful or have specifc uses then in say Tekken/DoA/SC.

VF you could say guessing is a big part of playing the game. But it’s not the kind of guessing that people think when it comes to mind. VF is based of the idea of attack vs. throw vs. guard/evade/defensive options. Added to this VF has built in option selects for defensive purposes. The whole point is trying to defend against an attack while dealing with the potential throw or forcing a guess by using either the attack or throw.

This is where fuzzy guard comes in, from a situation of -1 to -6 in disadvantage you can remove some of the guessing from the traditional mid attack/high throw mix up. It will duck under the throw (making it whiff and therefore punishable) and block the mid (giving intiative back to you).

In situations beyond -6 in disadvantage you use a different option select: evade throw escape guard. Since you can’t duck a throw at that level of disadvantage you will have to make due with breaking it. You can use an evade to deal with any linear attack and then buffer throw escapes to break potential throw attempts. Holding guard at the end after inputing your throws keeps you from getting hit by delay attacks/strings.

This is just the base defense system of VF, when yomi is involved there are far more options at your disposal. If your opponent likes to use mids only you can opt to do a mid reversal or sabaki attack. If your opponet likes to use high punch/throw mix up you can use low punch to beat that. If your opponent likes low punch you can use a jumping class attack or sabaki/reversal.

The game is basically about reading what your opponent does and taking counter actions against his actions, like chess except it moves at 60 fps tight. This is further backed up by smart damage balancing and the distribution of the necessary tools for each character to win, which is why VF is also praised for it’s balance.

27

Let me put some more stuff up, this time I’ll explain a term called “reverse nitaku”.

Reverse nitaku is a term used to describe beating a strong mix up by using a move that is a direct counter for one of the options in the mix up.

An example: Akira vs. Kage

Kage lands a Major Counter jab, he is at +8 now.
Akira likewise is at -8, he cannot crouch a throw at this point.
Kage attempts to throw Akira with 46P+G (Ten Foot Toss).
Akira uses 66KK (double kicks) to defeat his throw attempt, deal damage, and put him back on the intiative.

In Virtua Fighter 5 this is an extremely important option that most new people don’t use because it either didn’t cross there mind or they think it’s too risky.

In Virtua Fighter 5, a new mechanic called “throw clashing” dictates that depending on the level of disadvantage an opponent attacks out of, if the opposing player tries to throw they will both end up “clashing” and will end up in a 0 frame neutral situation.

There is actually a formula for this but in order to not bore you, just understand that at large disadvantages (like -5 and up) you’re counter attack has a high chance of clashing with an opposing players throw. Keep in mind you can avoid this and still use Reverse Nitaku by:

#1 Using a faster attack (if you are try to strike back with a launcher like Akira 33P, try using instead Akira’s jab, 46P, or elbow.)
#2 Using a move that puts you in crouch immediately (such as 2P, 1K, every character should have a few that do this)
#3 Using a move that puts you in the air immediately (such as Akira’s double kicks and somersaults).

I’m posting this because in the begining some people may not be able to do multi throw escape or fuzzy guard on reaction. This doesn’t mean you suck you just need to practice it. In the meanwhile you can also try to work in these options while you are practicing the safer defense options.

28

Does a characters move properties change when they face toward the TV, than when they are showing their backs to the TV?

29

That is only in comparison to the foot stance of your opponent.

This is called “Open” and “Closed” stance.

When your opponent and you have both your backs facing the the screen (or likewise both your fronts facing the screen) you are in the open stance.

When your opponent and you have opposing sides facing the screen you are in the closed stance.

Basically somethings have shorter range, whiff,etc. in a certain stance. I know for one thing, jab connects easier in the open stance than the closed due to how close your lead fist is to the oppoent. Likewise moves that go across your body take longer to reach the opponent in the open stance than the closed stance.

Basically it matters most with combos and lil bit outside of them in the range of moves…

30

Here’s a low down on the properties of dashing from the Arcadia magazine.

Standing dash
-can be canceled on the 4th frame by Guard
-you are considering in “standing” state on the 1st frame
-can be canceled into any other dash or attack or evade

Backwards dash
-can be canceled on the 21st frame by Guard
-you are considered in “stading” state on the 1st frame
-can be canceled into any other dash or attack or evade (after 21 frames that is)

Crouch dash
-can be canceled on the 7th frame by Guard
-you are considered in “crouching” state on the 6th frame
-you can cancel with any other dash or attack or evade

Backwards Crouch dash
-can be canceled on the 7th frame by Guard (6th frame if you are already crouching)
-you are considering in “crouching” state on the 8th frame
-you can cancel with any other dash or attack or evade.

Using this data you can make very precise Fuzzy Guarding for when you are in the crouching position and at -5 or -6 by simply crouching dash guard (as soon as you can) in -5 and crouch dash back wards guard (as soon as you can).

The arcadia article however does warn that Fuzzy guarding is not invicible and you have are likely to be hit by a mid/light weight jab or a low punch. It is however a strong option against a mid/throw mix up.

31

What good moves does Sarah have from flamingo stance? I’m forced to go flamingo > P more often than I like because a lot of her moves from flamingo seem sloooooow.

32

This depends entirely on what type of advantage (or disadvantage) you enter Flamingo in.

Flamingo K, is the generally follow up for all advantage situations in Flamingo of at least +2, it is a 14 frame special high kick which means it can beat low punch. If it hits you have some decent advantage and can usually press with a mix up after wards between flamingo 3K or the 270 catch throw.

Flamingo 3K you use when you are a large advantage in Flamingo of +5 or more, since at that point it will beat low punch and slow jabs. On counter hit it will cause a stomach crumple which you can use to deal some good damage.

Flamingo 2K+G is her low sweep, it is very fast for a sweep and has some evasiveness, if your opponent blocks it and fails to punish it properly with PK (unless they have a 12 frame jab) then you can evade any retaliation by buffering 2P+K/8P+K which is her Flamingo side step attack.

I don’t have time right now to explain every move but lemme do a quick over view.

P > goes to jab series, the Flamingo jab is 9 frames.
3PK > same as normal 3PK, is half circular high at 12 frames and if the combo hits you are at +6 in Flamingo
4K > slow mid kick that jumps over lows, gives advantage on hit/counter hit and pushes away on block.
6K > slow full circular guard break
K+GK > fast full circular high kick with a special high follow up, same as PPKK ender, can be canceled to mist step back to Flamingo
3K+G~P+G > slow but powerful mid hit/guard throw
2K ~ P+G > low JF hit throw
1K ~ low kick that jumps over other lows, gives advantage on hit, crumple on counter hit, safe on block
2P+K/8P+K- side stepping, mid circular, evade kick, it is G cancelable into Flamingo

Hope that helps.

33

Wow, that’s some good stuff, thanks! I’ll look up the frame data for the moves I use to enter Flamingo - I usually rotate between P+K, 4K and 3P, K.

Is 2P+K/8P+K from Flamingo any good at evading? Will it evade all linear moves? I seem to get hit out of it a lot and can only really use it as a ghetto Flamingo 270 throw set-up but I’m not sure if it’s because I’m doing it too late or what.

Also, I hear Sarah has been beefed up in version C - is she back to mid-tier or still hanging out with Aoi in the low tiers? Keep up the info in this thread Granby, it’s good reading.

34

P+K is good if you know the sabaki will work or you think your opponent will attack back reactively or will try to be passive. It’s +2 on block, and staggers on crouching.

4K is probably the best entry period, long range, mid, staggers, +4 on block, great advantage on hit, guaranteed follow up on counter hit.

3PK isn’t a really good choice unless you know it’s going to hit. This move used to be very good in VF4 days, however now a days I just use it to catch evaders or as punishment for -12 situations.

Try 4P+K, 8K, and PPKK, as well as her cancels.

2P+K/8P+K is only evasive in it’s early frame start ups, when she begins to animate the mid circular it no longer evades. Keep this in mind. It has the ability to evade rising kicks if you time it right.

In Ver C. Sarah basically has a few minor tweaks that help her a bit. Specifically FL K gives more advantage, 2KK combos naturally on any hit, 6K+GK causes a side turned situation.

35

With VFDC being down, I guess this is the only (non japanese) place for VF5 talk. I believe the frames for crouch fuzzy guard is -5 and crouch dash fuzzy is -6, not -6 and -7 as stated by Dandy J but I could be wrong. Thanks for your informative posts, The Granby.

36

I believe you’re right on the fuzzy-ing frames (-5 and -6 for CD fuzzy).

Anyway, yeah, VFDC is still down so this thread is a great help right now.

Any Jeffry talk?

37

You guys are both right on Fuzzy guarding.

As for Jeffery, no luck man, I don’t play him. However I see a lot of players utilize his long range moves to make a strong spacing game. Jeffery overall has an amazing set of tools for whiff punishing and out prioritizing from a distance with stuff like 33K. I think using the threat of these moves and mixing in with dash->0 frame gives you a good strategy overall. Knee’ing people in the face now and then helps too lol.

38

Yeah, I tend to use 33K quite a bit. The fact it does disgusting damage on counter helps and I think you have advantage (+3?) if it’s blocked. The only problem is that it’s linear so evades can be a problem. Most of Jeffry’s damage comes from powerful mids (especially his launchers) and throws, so yeah, what you said summed it up pretty well.

39

Well there is always a draw back to any strategy behind any well balanced VF character.

However that’s why I think Jeff’s spacing game has potential to be strong. 33K has the same motion as Splash Mountain his best throw. And if your opponent habitually evades or blocks from a distance to deal with Jeff’s good long range moves you can easily set up 0 frame by doing, crouch dash or dash to splash mountain.

If they aren’t already attacking or crouching, you’ll 0 frame them, especially if they were in the middle of a failed evade.

Keep in mind, when you use a regular throw, the input to escape the throw is 22 frames, (12 frames of the start up animation of the throw, and 10 frames after it hits). When you get a 0 frame, you shave that to a meer 10 frames, making it extremely hard to break throws on reaction. Even then you can mix up with his other directions that do good damage.

40

At the same time, once you condition your opponent to constantly block 3K, you can throw them off with 9K for a stagger and unleash hell from there.

And as you mentioned earlier, Jeff’s got plenty of other throw directions to vary his throws and still get nice damage.

Oh, BTW, should 33K be 66K. I’m shocked I didn’t pick that up earlier. :looney: