Video Game General - The road to E3...You're fanboy and you know it!

[DrellyFish]

@Crotchpuncha I agree with what you are saying, about how you do have people trying to justify X1 not being up to tech, sometimes I look on gamefaqs, and I see massive X1 defensive force defending their console running at low fps and lower res than ps4, despite MS marketing the system as equal to ps4.

@orochizoolander I agree with your edit as well, as bout how if they slowly screw us over then it becomes a bit normal. and DLC is a perfect example, it went from being able to pay a bit extra for the expansion instead of shelling out cash to basically buy a whole game again with a few extras to shit like the SFXT dlc, and having shit that used to be unlockables like costumes and characters being “purchase only” now.

I understand your point clearly, but I was just pointing out the shit is annoying, whenever I see game talk its not even about the game but the resolution, not even the fps rate sometimes, JUST the resolution. but at the same time, I wouldn’t want to pick up my ps4 later down the line, and see the shit isn’t an improvement of my ps3 in terms of performance, just the abundance of talk is annoying, and its not even callin out the devs like you are saying, its just “ha! my version runs better than yours”

And I think its gonna get worse, with Kojima being very out spoken about how much Ground Zeroes on ps4 is shitting on x1 and how much stronger ps4 is than x1. But hopefully MS will learn their lesson, because im not seeing this 720p vs 1080p in ps4 and wii u talk. but I understand wanting to get the most of out your cash, especially if the product you bought is more expensive than its competition, but yet worse at the same time.

[Iduno]

lol when are niggas gonna quit jumping the gun over if a game is 720p or 1080p, that shit is annoying as hell.

When 4k TVs are the norm, then it will be over whether the game is actually 4K or not.

It’s annoying, but I understand where people are coming from, they shelled out money for this shit, they want to get that moneys worth. These systems are touting them,selves as being worth 400 to 500 bucks and the latest in tech, so that shit is always going to matter.

Well shit. I’d be fine with ps3 graphics, I mean its cool new systems are pushing for new stuff, but just damn. I mean if someone can see the difference between the 720 and 1080 then cool, but its not like 1080 looks like real life and 720 looks like an old Saturn game, the shit is getting ridiculous. I understand if a multiplat game looks and/or runs better on a console then its tbe better version, but niggas really go to war over this.

Well what exactly is this new generation of consoles offering actual gamers (fuck all that TV shit, it’s plugged in to a fucking TV already) besides fancier graphics?

If all they’ve got to sell the fucking consoles on a games stand point is “look this game that totally could have been on a last gen system with last gen graphics and looked fine is REALLY pretty now” then the graphics need to be really fucking pretty, and not managing to at least one up last gen on resolution to get from 720p to 1080p is pretty laughable, especially when the competition manages to do it.

[DrellyFish]

lol when are niggas gonna quit jumping the gun over if a game is 720p or 1080p, that shit is annoying as hell.

When 4k TVs are the norm, then it will be over whether the game is actually 4K or not.

It’s annoying, but I understand where people are coming from, they shelled out money for this shit, they want to get that moneys worth. These systems are touting them,selves as being worth 400 to 500 bucks and the latest in tech, so that shit is always going to matter.

Well shit. I’d be fine with ps3 graphics, I mean its cool new systems are pushing for new stuff, but just damn. I mean if someone can see the difference between the 720 and 1080 then cool, but its not like 1080 looks like real life and 720 looks like an old Saturn game, the shit is getting ridiculous. I understand if a multiplat game looks and/or runs better on a console then its tbe better version, but niggas really go to war over this.

Well what exactly is this new generation of consoles offering actual gamers (fuck all that TV shit, it’s plugged in to a fucking TV already) besides fancier graphics?

If all they’ve got to sell the fucking consoles on a games stand point is “look this game that totally could have been on a last gen system with last gen graphics and looked fine is REALLY pretty now” then the graphics need to be really fucking pretty, and not managing to at least one up last gen on resolution to get from 720p to 1080p is pretty laughable, especially when the competition manages to do it.

I agree with what you said, but I mean some people really are enticed by playing a game that just looks better I guess no matter how small the improvement is. I have a homeboy who sold his ps3 and ALL his games shit and shit. To play COD on ps4 because it looks better.

[Hawkingbird]

I find the Xbone not being able to run games at 60 FPS more unforgivable then the 720p resolution. Most games should have a steady 60 FPS as a minimum by now.

[crotchpuncha]

I find the Xbone not being able to run games at 60 FPS more unforgivable then the 720p resolution. Most games should have a steady 60 FPS as a minimum by now.

The sad thing is lots and lots of games ran at 60 fps during the PS2/Xbox/Cube days. 60FPS was the standard back then. We’ve regressed with the PS3/360 and are slowly making our way back to that the bench mark. It should have been mandatory last gen cuz it was the norm the previous one to that. I think that’s a bit of why the Resolution/FPS thing is such a big deal now, we all realized how big a compromise last gen was, and don’t want to compromise this gen (least I don’t.)

[Darksakul]

So any ways, back to Retro consoles.

Contra III the Alien Wars or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles IV, Turtles in Time?

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/28000450.jpg
Seriously, guy.

Was an attempt to steer the conversation away from the Flame war Forum Reader wanted and back to gaming.
Too much butt hurt generates when I talk about Next gen stuff, so why not retro games?

As a PC gamer I don’t really care as I get 1080 60 FPS consistently =), but as a fan of gaming in general it’s disgusting to see MS have the nerve to charge $500 for a console and talk so big about about next gen this and next gen that and focus on all the extra bells and whistles no one gives a shit about. but not be able to hit 1080p and 60 FPS.

It’s business psychology 101, if you can get away with screwing over the customers a little bit at a time then you can condition them over time to take more and more away. That is the main reason so many gamers like myself are up in arms about resolutiongate it’s not the 1080P vs 720P issue itself as much as the slippery slope it creates. If gamers never spoke up we would have an xbone that requires 24/7 online connection and no used games. Look at how ridiculously insulting DLC has gotten with games, it didn’t become that way over night, publishers/developers experimented with the idea with the original xbox and realized it was a gold mine so they exploited game content more and more as time went on and that is what gave us on disc DLC.

Stopping a small inconvenience before it snowballs into a much larger issue is logical. It baffles me how you and so many other gamers do not understand nor care about such a simple concept.

This is my thoughts exactly. MY PS3 could do 1080p why not the next gen. When the Wii U can do 1080p at 60fps Xbone has no excuse.

If I am shelling out $400 - $500 for a new system I want my moneys worth. If I am paying for Top shelf liquor at a bar I want to receive top shell quality liquor. The Same goes for anything else in the consumer market.
Big reason I side with Sony as I am disgusted with the policies and business practices of Microsoft. And its not just the Xbox One, they way you don’t pay to own Office now, instead you pay to lease the Software is bull shit. If I march my way to a retail store I do not want use of office for a year, I want to own a physical copy of the program where I do as I wish as per the rights given to my by the First Sales Doctrine.
It is why so many of us are at a uproar over Day 1 DLC, Online Passes, and Draconian DRM Policies.

TO MICROSOFT, IF I AM PAYING $50 MORE FOR YOUR PRODUCT OVER THE COMPETITION I EXPECT $50 MORE IN PERFORMANCE AND QUALITY.

Well what exactly is this new generation of consoles offering actual gamers (fuck all that TV shit, it’s plugged in to a fucking TV already) besides fancier graphics?

If all they’ve got to sell the fucking consoles on a games stand point is “look this game that totally could have been on a last gen system with last gen graphics and looked fine is REALLY pretty now” then the graphics need to be really fucking pretty, and not managing to at least one up last gen on resolution to get from 720p to 1080p is pretty laughable, especially when the competition manages to do it.

Exactly

I can’t understand why MS shoe horns in garbage no one wants. I do not want the Kinetic, I do not need my Game system to double as a Cable Box, and I am not so deprived as a person I need to Skype as I play games.

[BigDewey]

I find the Xbone not being able to run games at 60 FPS more unforgivable then the 720p resolution. Most games should have a steady 60 FPS as a minimum by now.

It’s not the hardware so much as it’s what the developers choose to do with it. Most developers want 1080p/30fps because it’s their dream of aping movies with a “cinematic feel” in their games. So what do they do? They keep the framerate at a movie-like level, layer on crap-loads of fancy animations to compensate for the immediacy/responsiveness of a smooth 60fps gameplay-experience, and keep it 720p/1080p at best for a BluRay-like movie experience.

The only reason why PC gaming is different is because of how hardware is a moving target, and something developers only consider at a minimum when it comes to graphical power. So that means users with more powerful specs can brute force through almost whatever restrictions developers put in place for resolution and framerate. If AAA developers were targeting PC as the only gaming platform that exists today, you can bet the recommended specs would be much higher, the games would be much more graphically advanced, and it’d be much harder to get a standard PC game to run anything beyond 1080p/30fps.

Long-story short: The more complex and graphically demanding a game is at it’s core, the greater the horsepower required to run it. Most developers are trying to make best-looking game possible and prioritize sacrificing framerate to get there, well before making concessions to something like resolution and textures.

[orochizoolander]

I find the Xbone not being able to run games at 60 FPS more unforgivable then the 720p resolution. Most games should have a steady 60 FPS as a minimum by now.

The thing is as far as consoles go having 1080P, 60 FPS, and all the fancy visual effects in game is still very difficult and not a realistic possibility for most publishers/developers (someone who actually knows how to develop a game can explan on the why better than I can) and most developers opt for an emphasis on the graphics over the FPS for better and worse. For console games if it is a scientific certainty that having both 60 FPS and 1080P is not possible then for some games I will prefer the 1080P and visual effects while some other games I will prefer 60FPS it really depends on the game/genre.

This leads me to ask why can a few developers achieve 1080P and 60 FPS while most can’t?

[Darksakul]

I find the Xbone not being able to run games at 60 FPS more unforgivable then the 720p resolution. Most games should have a steady 60 FPS as a minimum by now.

It’s not the hardware so much as it’s what the developers choose to do with it. Most developers want 1080p/30fps because it’s their dream of aping movies with a “cinematic feel” in their games. So what do they do? They keep the framerate at a movie-like level, layer on crap-loads of fancy animations to compensate for immediate/responsive button pressing actions, and keep it 720p/1080p at best for a BluRay-like movie experience.

The only reason why PC gaming is different is because of how hardware is a moving target, and something developers only consider at a minimum when it comes to graphical power. So that means users with more powerful specs can brute force through almost whatever restrictions developers put in place for resolution and framerate. If AAA developers were targeting PC as the only gaming platform that exists today, you can bet the recommended specs would be much higher, the games would be much more graphically advanced, and it’d be much harder to get a standard PC game to run anything beyond 1080p/30fps.

I feel treating Game like you would Cinema is a huge mistake. Cinema Film and Video Games are two very different forms of Media.

Yes the basic visual composition is the same for all visual media, but gaming is not a purely audio/visual format. The bigger and more overlooked factor in gaming should be the interactive elements.
In most traditional writing such as books, comics, TV, Stage and Film the professional rule of thumb is Do not tell your audience, Show them. In gaming as audience participation is a more of a major player than even the visuals or audio the rule should be Do not Tell and Do Not Show, Make the Player DO IT, make them Live it. Games should not be video cut scenes telling the story with game play being just a vehicle to each new scene to unlock. That the story is game play driven, that the player is not watching the protagonist but the player IS the protagonist in the story. You are Commander Shepard, you are the Dovahkiin, you are Link, you are the character in game. What developers, programmers and designers need to get out of there heads that they are not film directors, no more so that a novelist should treat his or her works like a screen play.

Making a game look “CINEMATIC” is garbage and a wasted effort, I not saying those with a film school background can’t make video games but they have to understand that a game designer has more in common with a D&D DM than it does a film director. Your job is to create the world your audience participate, become the protagonist and help craft their own story in.

I find the Xbone not being able to run games at 60 FPS more unforgivable then the 720p resolution. Most games should have a steady 60 FPS as a minimum by now.

The thing is as far as consoles go having 1080P, 60 FPS, and all the fancy visual effects in game is still very difficult and not a realistic possibility for most publishers/developers (someone who actually knows how to develop a game can explan on the why better than I can) and most developers opt for an emphasis on the graphics over the FPS for better and worse. For console games if it is a scientific certainty that having both 60 FPS and 1080P is not possible then for some games I will prefer the 1080P and visual effects while some other games I will prefer 60FPS it really depends on the game/genre.

This leads me to ask why can a few developers achieve 1080P and 60 FPS while most can’t?

It all boils down too how well those programmers can implement there code. It is good and well written code and not the hardware that determines the games visual performance.

[BigDewey]

I find the Xbone not being able to run games at 60 FPS more unforgivable then the 720p resolution. Most games should have a steady 60 FPS as a minimum by now.

It’s not the hardware so much as it’s what the developers choose to do with it. Most developers want 1080p/30fps because it’s their dream of aping movies with a “cinematic feel” in their games. So what do they do? They keep the framerate at a movie-like level, layer on crap-loads of fancy animations to compensate for immediate/responsive button pressing actions, and keep it 720p/1080p at best for a BluRay-like movie experience.

The only reason why PC gaming is different is because of how hardware is a moving target, and something developers only consider at a minimum when it comes to graphical power. So that means users with more powerful specs can brute force through almost whatever restrictions developers put in place for resolution and framerate. If AAA developers were targeting PC as the only gaming platform that exists today, you can bet the recommended specs would be much higher, the games would be much more graphically advanced, and it’d be much harder to get a standard PC game to run anything beyond 1080p/30fps.

I feel treating Game like you would Cinema is a huge mistake. Cinema Film and Video Games are two very different forms of Media.

Yes the basic visual composition is the same for all visual media, but gaming is not a purely audio/visual format. The bigger and more overlooked factor in gaming should be the interactive elements.
In most traditional writing such as books, comics, TV, Stage and Film the professional rule of thumb is Do not tell your audience, Show them. In gaming as audience participation is a more of a major player than even the visuals or audio the rule should be Do not Tell and Do Not Show, Make the Player DO IT, make them Live it. Games should not be video cut scenes telling the story with game play being just a vehicle to each new scene to unlock. That the story is game play driven, that the player is not watching the protagonist but the player IS the protagonist in the story. You are Commander Shepard, you are the Dovahkiin, you are Link, you are the character in game. What developers, programmers and designers need to get out of there heads that they are not film directors, no more so that a novelist should treat his or her works like a screen play.

Making a game look “CINEMATIC” is garbage and a wasted effort, I not saying those with a film school background can’t make video games but they have to understand that a game designer has more in common with a D&D DM than it does a film director. Your job is to create the world your audience participate, become the protagonist and help craft their own story in.

I find the Xbone not being able to run games at 60 FPS more unforgivable then the 720p resolution. Most games should have a steady 60 FPS as a minimum by now.

The thing is as far as consoles go having 1080P, 60 FPS, and all the fancy visual effects in game is still very difficult and not a realistic possibility for most publishers/developers (someone who actually knows how to develop a game can explan on the why better than I can) and most developers opt for an emphasis on the graphics over the FPS for better and worse. For console games if it is a scientific certainty that having both 60 FPS and 1080P is not possible then for some games I will prefer the 1080P and visual effects while some other games I will prefer 60FPS it really depends on the game/genre.

This leads me to ask why can a few developers achieve 1080P and 60 FPS while most can’t?

It all boils down too how well those programmers can implement there code. It is good and well written code and not the hardware that determines the games visual performance.

I agree with all of that actually, I was just pointing out that most of today’s major developers (with or without publisher influence) have a narrowed point-of-view in mind for how and why they want to create their games.

Are there exceptions? Well that’s usually where fighters, racers, 2D games, platformers, and action/hack-and-slashers come in ofc. But those are games where developers focus harder on fast response times, and are willing to find certain workarounds to keep a high framerate while sacrificing in other areas to achieve that (if they actually reach those hardware limitations). Ironically those are the same genres that aren’t in high demand at the level most publishers would want, but hopefully that will change more on the retail and digital level as we go further into the product lifecycle of the newer consoles.

[XthAtGAm3RGuYX]

Yo on some real shit. Ultimate Lair in Lightning Returns is Demon’s Souls levels of rage quit. Omega Gurangatch was the fucking end of it for me tonight. Controller almost went through a window. Plaguebreath disables all abilities for 30 seconds, and if you dont kill him while staggered, he grows his carapace back, and then does mediguard while you sit there doing 1 damage.

Fuck.

[drizzt360]

I hate how eveyone goes on about 1080p and 60fps and shit but no one ever complains about audio. Can these console even do 7.1 surround? Pieces of shit.

[orochizoolander]

Audiophiles are a niche group as is, and it doesn’t help that people think MP3 is decent quality sound.

[drizzt360]

Thats sad. Most people dont even consider audio when talking about HD anything. Audio is a huge part of the experience to me. If a game sounds like shit I cant enjoy it.

[po_pimpus]

Sound is a big deal, but when there’s nothing to listen to but gunshots and shitty generic orchestral music, you’re really not missing much.

Besides, its not like these modern developers know how to do things like force the player to listen for footsteps/gunshots to track the opponent-- Not when you have a handy dandy tattletale radar giving away everyone’s position…

[drizzt360]

The way gunshots sound make a huge difference. I think this one COD i have stinks, mostly because the guns sound like shit. I have this BF game and damn, the guns sound amazing.

P.S. I get called a cheater in MW2 a lot, they call me a waller. Dudes say im cheating because there was no way I could have known they were there/coming. They just refuse to believe me when I say “I coud hear you coming”.

[po_pimpus]

Could previous gen do 7.1 surround? I think I remember Gamecube and PS2 being able to do 5.1 back in the day, but I could be remembering it wrong.

If its true, then that’s a shame that people are willingly accepting steps back in technology just so they can have “next gen” graphics… Oh, wait… can’t even do 1080p and 60fps…

The Super NES could do 60fps…

[drizzt360]

I dont think they supported 7.1. I dont remember if PS2 supported 5.1, I want to say it did. Shit, I didnt have a lot of money when PS2 was the shit. I couldnt afford a good surround setup so I used some PC speakers (2.1) to get a little extra oomph from the sound. After that I could never play a game using the speakers from the tv.

[Hawkingbird]

Dead Space had the best sound design of any game I played this generation. Playing that game with surround is a must

[Million]

I miss those little screens that were made by “Intec”… the memory of that just hit me randomly now. They were back in the Ps2/GC/Xbox era, and I recall having one for Gamecube. It would attach right to the back of the console and just like that…you had a “kinda” portable console system. My old college friend/roommate had one too; I remember he’d bring the GC and that screen to work sometimes, since from there…all you need is a wall plug for the system itself.

On another note, Earth Defense Force 2025 has been acquired now…it is SO on…

*Forced gender roles for classes kinda annoys me though… in this one, the new “Jet” soldier is a woman, and apparently you have no choice about that. I think it would be more sensible for the player to have a choice… that’s at least one of things that Diablo 3 got right, imo — each class had the male and female version. That’s how I’d approach the design for any game I made…why not give the player the choice when it comes to that? This is why “Custom Character” has been my favorite feature to happen in video games within the past couple of generations.