Here’s some more Vice stuff that I’ve been using in K and P since I don’t have any dirty RC grab tricks. In K and P, Vice’s Throw mixup/Counterhit jab is still pretty buff even without the threat of RC Nailbomb.
- c.lk (+2/+2) or c.jab (+7/+7)
1.1. hit confirm c.jab xx c.lk xx Shoulder Ram Beatdown.
1.2. NailBomb (hcf+p)
1.3. Tap f+fierce or b+fierce
The first 2 options off this tree (1.1 and 1.2) are the same as kcxj’s RC Nailbomb/BNB mixup he talked about earlier, except without the invincible Nailbomb to deal with Reversal SRKs, Cannon Spikes, etc.
In a rolling groove, the RC nailbomb is key to catch reversal SRKs, etc. If you’re not in a rolling groove, you’re out of luck.
Luckily, this is where option 1.3 comes in.
At the range you do one close up low short or low jab, you will get either a close standing fierce or a punch throw, depending on whether the game will allow you to throw or not.
It just so happens that Close standing fierce comes out in 4-frames. If you start off the option tree with a c.lk, there’s a 2-frame gap that most jab mashers can’t even deal with (Your own timing has to be tight, though). You can even get a counterhit fierce in your favor. The only vulnerability in this pattern comes from reversal SRKs/Supers within that 2-frame gap I just spoke of. I’m pretty sure you’ll even catch RC’ed moves if the other guy’s trying to reversal his way out of there that way.
If you start the option tree off a c.lp, you can eliminate the danger of reversal SRKs and turn it into a complete guessing game for the other player.
By varying the timing, you can get either:
a) a Punch throw (teched or landed)
b) a Counterhit Close Fierce vs. jabbers and jumpers for ~1150 dmg (why they’d try to jump out of it I have no idea)
c) a totally safe 2-hit linked combo that pushes you away to about midscreen and leaves you +6 on hit or block. (Option C never happens off a crouching short, for obvious reasons)
d) a totally safe 2-hit block string if you mistimed your f+fp
It goes without saying that in P and K groove, you have a big advantage off of tech throws off (a).
It also goes without saying that if you have the reaction time and see the damn thing hit, you can extend (b) and © into the Shoulder Ram Beatdown combo. The nice thing about this is that the fierce option select (1.3) seems to work on both large and small characters, since the close fierce hits most, if not all of the small chars (haven’t tested it on everyone yet).
You’ll recognize that in P-groove, tapping fwd+fierce is an option select parry. While it’s hard for Vice to follow up effectively in a dash groove, the punch throw does throw the opponent into the corner, so that’s a plus.
If you’re trying to do the same thing with Vice’s kick throw, be warned that close s.rh whiffs on small characters, and if your spacing is off slightly, you’ll get far s.rh and totally screw yourself over. Be advised that close s.rh comes out in 7 frames, too. It does, however, push you away the same distance as a close s.fierce, and leaves you at +0/+0 on hit or block.
The bad news about this option select is that it’s a one-shot deal. If you’ve been blocked, then you’ll be pushed out of range for any other followups, other than ground sleeve.
So, the main point of all this is to say if you ever land an up-close c.lp, going for the punch throw is pretty safe.
(Interestingly, if you immediately cancel a blocked/hit close standing fierce into nailbomb, it leaves Vice just in striking distance of her far s.mp. A little bit later, and you’ll end up too far, even for her s.mk. You’ll know which range is which by watching whether Vice scoots backwards during her whiff animation or not.
As to its actual utility… well… you can HCF and hit K for ground sleeve if you see the fierce hit. Voila, you have at least another 1000 damage. If you see a block, don’t hit K.
But the better thing to do is, when going for the punch throw option select, is to tap F+Fierce and immediately input half-circle back (HCB). Tap punch again if you see the fierce hit and continue into the Shoulder Ram Beatdown.)
For what it’s worth, I’ve been using this little pattern off running jabs in N and K. And I’ve also been using this pattern in P-groove, after a sweep or kick throw , then dashing up close and using a down parry option select c.jab/c.short to start things off.
It goes without saying that if you see the first jab or short hit, just go straight into the beatdown combo.
Hope this helps guys.
By the way, I know now after testing and playing vs ppl, that some of the stuff I wrote before is junk. I’ll strike out the stuff that doesn’t really work.