ST was never useful as an anti-air or reversal…ST was a meterles combo ender in SFIV …and that is still what it does in this game but i guess the hitbox must be bigger cause is easier to combo into it now…cmp to ST only worked at point blank in SF4 now you can conect it from realy far…also ST jugles the opp and allowes you to combo into super or cosmic heel or anything…i know all the characters probably have something similar but anyway…
On an unrelated Note FRAME DATA OF ALL CHARACTHERS AT LAST
Thanks Alex and Eternal Blaze for all the data you have shared with us up until now…if this is against the rules or something i’ll remove the link at once…
EDIT: A couple of moves are listed as hard knockdown…does this mean they can’t roll recovery?
I’ve been using stuff life cr.mk, fr.st.lk block string and keeping my back charge by holding d/b into a back charge with st.lk pressure. If st.lk hits, then I link st.lk into chain cancel to ex roll into bnb or tag in partner. This really scares people and allows you to use your ch and pom mixed in with throws. Really wasn’t feeling vega until I started using this. However, I still think he’s a very weak character and can’t believe the hype of him being so “gdlk” when the game first dropped.
ST Actually was pretty useful in SSF4, its just that Vega had no reliable reversal move which ST could have been, and thus did not work that way. ST was good as an AA if you predicted or reacted fast enough. You would AA when a character is really high up because it had decent startup and did good damage as an AA (210 for the double ST iirc).
ST works like that as an AA here as well, but the only difference is that you can do a combo of over 400 damage with it now. Mainly the different ST should be used during combos though.
Hard knockdown does not mean that they can’t roll out. It means that they can’t quick recover and I am pretty sure all hard knockdown moves end combos immediately.
First of all, just looking at Ryu’s fr. data makes me sick, the man has five 3 fr. start-up normals and a 3fr inv. AA. Just make his every move 0 fr. and get a relief Capcom.
After reading the framedata, Vega seems worse than his SSF4 version to me, I’m sorry. Of course his combo potential is much better, but he is even worse now when face to face with the enemy. A Ryu, just doing cr.lps one after another in point blank, will keep you blocked until he gets bored. His only close combat fear factor was throw and its gone. He is even more pathetic when jumped in. AA is even slower. Focus is gone to get away from jump-ins. Air grab is even slower. So he absolutely has nothing to do to jump-ins other than block now. You can jump-up hard kick and most probably get a trade. Or back-dash and eat a sweep. His best weapon to use against projectile spammers was ex.shc and it no longer has that. If the fireball was too close focusing with pay good, but its not in this game. And exroll is too slow to punish them.
So, gathering from this, Ryu-Vega match-up should be 9-1 in Ryu’s favor.
I’ve noticed that even in juggles (except the corner), cl. hp into cr. mp needs to be linked…so it probably does land you just have to press it like you regularly do it while standing or punishing a character.
Yes Ryu’s frame data is exceptional. Yes he is really good and does alot of damage, but no to about everything else you said.
Vega’s frame data is significantly better than it was in SSF4. Cr lk is comboable, POM is SAFE on block AND comboable on CH/ hit on standing, SHC is safe. BHC is 6 frame startup and has I frames. Far HP is -1 on hit instead of being -4 on hit which was punishable AND causes crumple on CH. ALL of his normal attacks are safer on block and have more + frames on hit. Only st hk. st lk, cr mk, and cl hp are less safe on block by 1 frame, but we did get cl mk with +2. Izuna is now 1 frame startup and 2 active frames instead of being 2 frame startup with only 1 active frame. His forward dash is 1 frame faster.
Basically all of his moves are safer on block/ hit but they do have significantly more recovery frames I noticed. His RCF being unsafe on block is fine since it was garbage in SF4 anyways and shouldn’t have been really used except for EX which was only usable after jump ins. ST is now 1 frame slower on all the versions and EX is 2 frames slower. That shouldn’t matter at all though since it wasn’t supposed to be used outside of combos anyways other than AA which it still serves that purpose.
The only things that really mattered frame wise that got weaker was st lk, cr mk, and air throw. Also it is definitely not the case that EX SHC was good at punishing fireballs, because it was horrible at it. And are you serious when you say that our AA got weaker? Because no. Yes our air throw sucks now, but we got an attack with 6 frame startup with i frames for an AA! How can you even claim that he got worse? Plus with 3 bars you can use splendid claw with an easy QCF motion w/o charge. Not to mention that if you air to air them and counter hit them you can combo afterwards for over 250 damage.
Vega’s got six main air to air normals that are really effective. nj mk, nj mp, nj hp, nj Hk, jf mp, jf lp. They are all used for different types of jump ins, and not just 1 that fits all.
Also here’s something you can do against throws against any character or in this scenario, against Ryu. You know what I just figured out. Since throws are all 4 frames slower and since hitboxes are pretty much all standardized, and since you have to be very close to actually be in throw range you can now get a massive counter for throws if you start a neutral jump at around the same time that they throw. You can actually counter with nj HK since it hits pretty far down and throws are slow enough that it is probably viable. Obviously if you hit with nj HK you can get the most damaging combo that Vega can possibly do.
Besides just because Ryu can jab you all day doesn’t mean anything. Just block low. He’s doing no damage so unless he is going to use an overhead which is slower, or do chip damage with a special attack, or throw, you can punish those moves. Also you can just cross cancel any fireballs that are about at Cosmic heel range and it will hit Ryu, or block since his fireballs are less safe.
So many options to train your opponent. If you react to a jump in late or have a hard time reading it? Vega still has his slide under cross up escape- (cr.HK).
Don’t like that option? Becoming predictable? Try the backslash (P P P), they start to whiff on you so they start to walk forward or jump at you to gain ground, make them whiff w/ short backslash ( K K K) and smash them w/ ST into combo of your choice.
I believe Vega has more options than usual and since he is “viable” out of the box Vegan’s are suffering from paralysis by analysis and are being caught in a deer in the headlight moment.
Something I have to start getting use to is using Vega’s kicks more…stop relying on his cr.LP & MP and get that cr.MK out there… Really works wonders!
Relax folks, take a deep breath, slow yourself down and have fun with Vega
a lot of you guys need to get off of that whack ass sf4 vega garbage.
Cosmic Heel pressure?
more like cosmic heel gimmicks.
footsies >>>>>>> everything else. thats what made vega in the first place.
it sucks that his flip kick doesnt have any invincibility still, but having an alpha(cross) counter really makes up for it. its one of the safer ones in the game too (-4 on block)
If you’re poking from long range, whats the best way to chain into the launcher? Sometimes the launcher will wiff while the other attacks hit, and I’m wondering if a certain sequence of standing or crouching moves puts you at a closer proximity.
It doesn’t unfortunately. You could use cr hp except for maximum range use st hp which will ALWAYS work. Only reason I don’t like using st hp is that sometimes I get cl hp and only get one hit when I wanted both.
Basically you should always be starting with or ending with cr mp xx cr hp xx launcher, and then replace cr hp with st hp if you are really far away. Or at max range you could do st mk xx st hp xx launcher. If you do any other normal, then canceling into cr hp should be able to have the launcher connect with no problem.
@ Rugalitarian- Is that Vega x Ogre? I would like to play against you if you’d like. Is your psn the same as your name here?
This was exactly what I was talking about when saying a 3 fr. jabbed char can put you into corner as long as he wants:
10 Raven far standing 3 fr. jabs to Vega in the corner. At 01:41
Also, it seems people still fall out from BHC. How hard is it to make all the move a cinematic if the knee part hits? Is this a stupid idea? Please let me know how so if it is? At 02:00
I refuse to play with Kazuya, Rolento, Hugo, Orgre, Heihachi, and Ryu or any too top tier characters with Vega. Im not going to the Dark side. Steve may hit hard but he’s very technical and kinda hard to master.
Capcom could have fixed it, they just chose not to…
