to the one who has the bible out there.
what’s the advantage on cl.HP and what’s the startup on cr.mp and cr.mk.
-__-
Also, I’m in 100% agreement with Zero, this Vega is whack, he’s not bad but he’s not good either.
Everything that kept him viable in SF4 isnt in this game (aside from c.MP, and even thats nerfed >__>) and he hasnt gained anything aside from generic shit that everyone has. so I dont see whats with all the “best Vega iteration” talk as thats not even remotely close to being true, especially when you compare Vega to the rest of the cast in this game…
Lol I meant block stun for both times. Thanks for catching that.
The startup on cr mp is 4 and it is -1 on hit and -5 on block. The startup on cr mk is 6 but it is +5 on hit and +1 on block. Like I said I don’t remember cl Hp though. I know its at least +7 on hit since you can combo st mp afterwards which has a 7 frame startup.
No. Vega is ALOT better in this iteration. All he had going for him that he doesn’t have in this game mainly was poke into kara throw. His air throw was alot better in ssf4. That’s it. CH sucked and POM sucked (-4 on block lol). And he had 50 more HP.
Yes he may have the same “generic stuff” that all the other characters have, but this engine benefits Vega ALOT more than it benefits other characters.
Being able to do a real over 300 dmg combo without any charge at all from cr mp distance with 4 frame startup without ANY meter is a massive buff. Tell me how many characters can do that?
Being able to cross counter as a “get off of me move” for 1 meter which is pretty much sure to hit is something Vega wishes he had in SSF4.
Having BHC actually work as an AA and the cross counter AA and the cross art AA are AA that Vega wishes he had.
If you beat out an air move in this game on CH you can also combo afterwards, so going air to air as a CH will allow you to get an over 200 damage combo easily. And if you combo from normal lk ST you can combo into ultra. lk ST x CH x cr mk x cr mp x BHC -> 443 dmg.
Being able to combo off of FBA claw attack for 1 meter for over 360 dmg or make it safe during ambiguous crossups.
Not to mention that Vega doesn’t have to deal with FA on his cr mp while people dash in for free. Nor does he have to deal with 3 frame throw mixups (its now 7 frames), or zangief’s 2 frame grab (its now 5 frames). He no longer has to deal with stupid 1 frame combos anymore either. He can also now roll out of ambigous wakeup stuff just like everyone else. If other characters do that to Vega, then Vega is still at the advantage cause not everyone has very good footsies like Vega so resetting will benefit him way more than it would help other characters.
Vega’s jump in attack can do over 600 damage easily with mask on with any partner with easy combos into cross art.
His RCF are all better (except MP RCF got worse) and he even has some new tricks like the CH SHC and CH st hp which allows for extended combos.
I can’t believe that people honestly think Vega’s not better. What are you guys thinking?
Totally my mistake. I’ve confused cross art with cross counter. Sorry guys, I don’t have the game yet.
but but but…lol
no seriously. most of what you said apply to everyone in the cast.
in SSF4 his game(in my opinion) was centered around kara throws and CH frame traps, both in which are gone. So what’s vega supposed to do now? be a jump in character? but he doesn’t have a decent crossup like everyone.
Given he can do very good damage when he lands a jump in, but everyone can do that in this game, and with less execution.
My vega game at the moment is more centered around his wall dives, and his SHC(which is kinda safe on block since he lands pretty far).
This is Kamisama guys, listen to him.
No. Firstly CH frame trap as a viable tactic was long gone once AE came out. Secondly, are you serious in telling me that all you can do as Vega is kara throw for a viable tactic in winning? According to your logic Balrog should be crap since he had no crossup or kara throw, and is even slower than vega and had less range, and didn’t do much more damage. But he didn’t suck cause he had great footsies and good pressure once he was in.
You are completely neglecting one of the most important things in the game which is footsies.
No one in the game can do what Vega does. Certain characters can use some of the same type of techniques or tactics, but no character is like Vega.
Vega has among the fastest walking speed in the game and has among the best pokes in the game. He can poke from a very far distance and they are very fast for their range (4 frames). ANY poke leads to over 300 damage with launcher even from max range cr mp. Tell me what character can do a combo like that meterless from that range with a 4 frame window? This means that ANY move that is -4 or higher is punishable by that cr mp for alot of dmg, and that’s without meter.
You should be playing to overwhelm your opponent with your overpowering speed combined with superior range/priority into excellent damage. Force them to make a mistake and punish them heavily for it. You can play defensively well and offensively well.
Vega’s jump ins are very powerful and hard to AA since its so fast and has excellent range/priority. And on hit you have very damaging combo potential, and on block you are close and at frame advantage so you can frame trap, or you could cancel into RCF for a safe switch, and your partner can finish the combo on hit or he/she could be more adept at frame trapping. Likewise, since his close fierce combo is very powerful, having a character that can switch to Vega during a combo so that he can utilize it is where he can do the greatest damage, rather than a juggle which he is only average at.
Furthermore lk and mk ST are powerful AA in that you can combo afterwards whether you hit on CH or not, and those combos can be extremely damaging. W/O meter I can get 292 and with just 1 meter I can get 463 dmg. Maybe other characters can combo like that from an AA, but not everyone can without CH.
And then theres the FBA mixups. I don’t think anyone in the game has mixups like those. Once again from the claw attack (non EX version) you can combo for over 350 damage (1 meter). And SHC can combo on CH and EX SHC can combo on hit.
In a sense you can say that everyone is trying to force the opponent to make a mistake through frame traps, but Vega has more speed and range that other characters could only dream of having. So Vega may not have the same mixups as some of the other characters but he has his own strengths that other characters don’t have.
Thank you.
alexlkd what’s the combo you say after a FBA claw attack?
Bloody High Claw : ))
tournament results…until then no one can say shit…
ive been playing with low-mid tier characters since the beginning of time…idgaf…I make it work for me…its hard secure a win within the top 8 but getting it never felt so good…like a nut…
I posted the combos in the appropriate combo thread.
Yeah Vega is gonna have issues… without karathrows, CH pressure, corpse-hopping, and safejumps he has no real way of opening people up. Not to mention that Rolls are not safe anymore and that FBA is trash in this.
His Poking game is still great (actually a bit better coz it gets meterless damage now) but thats all he has now.
What does he have if the opponent blocks? exactly, nothing, PoM is solid but if they happen to jab while you’re going for it you’ll float and they can get a full juggle…
No character has karathrows, or CH pressure, or corpse-hopping or safejumps. Except the difference between them and Vega is that Vega has other advantages that they don’t have like speed, range, and others may have other things that Vega doesn’t have like projectiles or more health.
If an opponent is blocking then walk up and grab him. If he starts to attack then CH him into a combo. Seriously its the same for everyone else. Push them to the corner if you can’t open them up and switch to a stronger pressure character then.
typically if the opponent is blocking i build meter. 9 times outta 10 they come to me like an idiot. The one guy that doesnt is a pain in the ass to deal with but i havnt seen a single match as vega that wasnt winnable so far. He still sucks in the corner but i’ll say that staying outta the corner is much much easier in this game.
need you guys to test something:
spam sky high claw in every match you play and see if anyone can do anything about it. anti-air with super when they jump at you, and if you get bored of shc, mix in some walldives and play fullscreen el fuerte basically
apparently this is a fool-proof strategy against 90% of the cast
SHC ass to broken? lol. Will try tonight, but I assume you can be jumped on or DP’d before it connects.
I use to just do c.mp x…ST.x. EX ST on tag ins…now its just c.mp xBHC all day…lol
lol SHC gdlk now? I’m going to have to try tomorrow for sure :-p
I do miss the CH corpse hop, projectile immune ex SHC, and the first few matches I went online, I honestly forgot that that forward roll was an option so my usual jump in follow ups were pretty much for nothing. That said, Vega has a interesting if a bit unsafe option select by just doing :df:.:hk: when a person gets up (forward roll or no). If they get up normally, they have a CH to deal with. If they forward roll and try to do anything (say trying to tag out), they get tripped by the slide instead.
I don’t know the frame data but I imagine :d:.:hk: is unsafe on block, so that’s the noticeable drawback to the OS. It could be safe if done from a distance but I haven’t really tested it out yet. Also, I don’t know how well this will deal with wake SRKs.
Overall, I REALLY like this version of Vega. He’s fast, he’s very mobile, he’s fairly damaging (compared to some others I’ve tried) and the juggle system really benefits him. He’s definitely still one of my main guys.
lol, i know right? i’ve always wondered why this move was so unsafe in sf4 but i think i understand now. the priority seems really dumb, too
it’s funny because shc wallbounces on counterhit, so if you’re gonna punish it, you can’t really afford to mess up. and trying to punish shc requires so much telegraphing in the first place (eg stuff like jump back fierce) that vega can mix it up and start landing fba/izuna drops for free. it’s fairly easy to condition people to play out of their element with these two moves alone
with these kinds of gimmicks and having the fastest backward walk speed (but not necessarily the best set of frame data), it feels like they designed vega strictly as a runaway/turtle character in this game. even though i’ve stopped being a fan of this years ago, i foresee timeouts being a legitimate strategy with him
however i think throws having 7 frames of startup hurts him a lot offensively. it’s really hard for vega to land a throw on anyone without getting jabbed out, while at the same time no one should have any reason to press buttons against vega ever. blaze put it best: vega loses to blocking because he has no real way of opening people up
another glaring weakness: one thing i’ve noticed is that jumps seem to leave the ground slightly faster in this game than in sf4, so if someone blocks vega’s cr.jab and tries to jump out before the second one, they actually get air resetted instead of being susceptible to a full combo. this is EXTREMELY problematic because it prevents vega from punishing people who hold up against him, and vega has always lost to jump-ins. the only normal that seems to keep people grounded during blockstrings is cl.mk which is +2 (meh)
anti-air bloody high claw has been extremely consistent for me and i try to save all my meter for it. i honestly don’t think it’s all that amazing to burn 2 meters for 280 damage (this is about two throws worth of damage) and being once again free to jump-ins after using it, but it certainly helps and is a welcome tool to vega’s arsenal because at least opponents will start respecting his AA a bit more
there are some things i like about him and some things i hate, but i still don’t know what the heck i’m supposed to make of sfxt vega so far. all i know is that i’ve been playing him like a huge faggot