3901

Oh wow, I’m not using that google docs framedata anymore… because I had been thinking mk crimson on hit was -2 all this time. I kept wondering why people were talking about doing a command grab after it LOL… That is actually refreshing to know. I need to get my hands on that whole prima guide data(for all chars).

@Nekorin I know what you mean. I hate playing against Ryu/Ken cause if they play super lame it is very hard to get in. I usually try to predict a fireball and you can get a free FBA if you called it correctly. Another thing that I noticed is that if you are playing someone who is prepared to AA you most of the time on your fba jump in, you can really mess them up by jumping off the wall behind them instead of the one behind yourself. Have to be careful not to just get stuffed by something on the way but once you’re in the air their timing and spacing is really messed up. Especially if you cross up again.

3902

What the hell is wrong with Vega’s hit boxes. I’m sick of getting AA H.ASE and watching EX.FBA pass right through them unless you juggle them ridiculously high. It seem the box barely extends past his waist. I completely whiff, and get tagged because the box for the claw attack seems to be in his face, but the hurtbox means it will lose to anything.

/end rant.

3903

Pretty sure the hurt box is really long, but narrow

3904

Yeah, command grab after CT only works because people know Vega has a slight advantage. From a frame point of view it’s terrible on paper since the grab is about 7-8 frames or so since you have to walk forward slightly using the buffer trick. That give them at least 5-6 frames to poke you out.

3905

ugh, im hella salty, ive lost like 1.5k lp since ive dropped rashid for vega. Im going to stick with him though, being able to deal 50% with a single poke is awesome.

My biggest weakness right now is my anti air game and simply not knowing any meaty and counterhit setups.

3906

@Atrorias how are you getting 50% with a single poke may I ask… I would love to know?

3907

Same. I was actually playing ken and I was on the rise, but I didn’t like his lack of tricky mixups/mobility. Ken seemed too simple, so I went with Vega. I’ve eaten a lot of losses but I’ve learned a lot too. Now my game and knowledge is a lot more solid and it’s getting to the point where Vega is becoming muscle memory.

You NEED to know your frame data like the back of your hand, as well as other characters frame data. Check out the tech thread, we have been doing a lot of work in there. Also, claws off is extremely superior in most matchups. His normals with claws on are mainly for playing the poke game and keep away.

3908

@nappydude i exaggerated a little, but its still a lot of damage: F+HP xx v-trigger > CA .

@greatlakes_pvp Having a punish available for every move was definetely the reason why i won most of the time with rashid, i felt like his non-vtrigger mixups weren’t strong enough to compensate for his low damage midscreen. Ill have a look, thanks for the suggestion :slight_smile:

Ive mainly been using him with his claw.

3909

Anyone else feel like Vegas online / weekly representation doesn’t match where people have him on tier lists? He only seems to look strong when people give his buttons respect that they don’t deserve, or at least that’s what I’ve observed. There was a Vega vs Birdie WNF match last night was a great example of this.

3910

@kidgogeta Yes. A few of us have already been talking about this. I look on the leaderboards and I don’t see any Vega until around like 50, and who knows if that player didn’t ragequit to horde points. I know there are high ranking Vega players in the top 200-300, but not many. Vega is not high tier and I find it amusing that people made those claims so early on. It’s almost like a sick joke.

I feel like this game is similar to Blazblue, where pretty much every character is viable, there is no garbage tier, but Vega definitely is somewhere near the bottom. Playing a Birdie/Zangief is the only time I feel like i’m in complete control, and even then, if a good Zangief gets in or gets you cornered, he can completely maul you.

As of right now, I feel like Vega is not strong until we make him strong, and thats what we have been working on in the techskill thread. Most of his claw normals don’t deserve respect imo, but his claws off, however, do demand great respect. If they simply fixed his hurtboxes/hitboxes for his claws on mode, I wouldn’t complain about anything else. His pokes are way too easily punished, and it makes no since in terms of his character type. He is supposed to be a master of the skies, yet he gets owned easily trying to anti air people unless you are really clever.

Wait till you get a look at his hitbox/hurtbox on his FBA claw attacks lmfao.

3911

Vega’s fba sucks big time. He has so many moves and normals that make me question why the claw/foot is there in the first place since in most of the moves the claw is just for aesthetic purposes (hit box not extending to end of claw) but we are punished for those aesthetic features. It is really hard to control the air now with walldives.

If ask me to choose between the combo-bility of SFV’s walldives (after hitting a grounded opponent) vs SFIV walldives (better hit/hurt boxes + ability to hit crouching opponents while going up)… I would rather choose SFIV variant. Now the ex.walldives are rather useless apart from using them to end combos or using them when opponent is at a corner.

3912

If you FBA you have to do it as late as possible to take advantage of the start up otherwise you expose that shitty hurtbox.

3913

Yeah, I still need some getting use to the new fba, since vega’s arms animation (the 180% arc) is not counted as part of the hit box at all, but they are part of the gigantic hurtbox.

3914

SF4 FBA hit boxes were a joke. They’re about the same but SF4 hurt box was so fucking huge people could AA it with sweeps. SF5 isn’t much better, frankly, they’re both awful. Everything about Vega’s hit/hurt box priorities is completely fucked in this game. No range at all.

3915

Okay so I have never had a Twitter before. Literally ever. I created one for the sole purpose of trying to get Combofiends attention. Everyone needs to tweet him and just politely ask him to please look at Vega, because he is flawed. Tweet him pictures of bs hurtboxes, link him to the Vega forums here. Quote and tweet to him any information that shows just how bad Vega is and link him to the source if you can.

Tweet him and tell him to talk to @pvp_levels (thatboyrio). If he responds to me I could tell him whats wrong with Vega in like 4 sentences. Lets do this guys, Combofiend will listen.

3916

Vega isn’t bad though. If I really wanted Combofiend’s attention I would just shoot him a message on facebook or he secret OG FGC facebook page. He would probably just laugh. I think most things are working as intended.

3917

@RagingStormX hes not complete trash, but he is bad compared to the rest. I mean, mostly everyone here on the forums has been agreeing on that even before we got into major discussion. Just from our own gameplay experiences it seems like we all saw the same flaws. Take a closer look and I think you would reconsider.

He isn’t supposed to be like this. Target combo(his main source of good damage) whiffing on crouchers? His only CC move to get punishes being st.hk which whiffs on crouchers?St.hk also whiffs on like everyone besides Ryu and Ken after their whiffed reversal uppercuts because they are crouching? His hurt boxes leaving shadows behind that can be punished when his claw isn’t even there anymore. Birdie can do a huge punish on his buster claw from almost full screen. Zangief can do similar things. His fba hurtbox/hitbox ratio, and being beaten by standing, crouching, and jumping jabs? His cr.hp in claw mode being beat out by drop kicks?

His lack of mixup for his st.hp claw switch on block. His hit boxes on his j.hp and j.hk being complete ass. His lack of a viable anti air when people are jumping over him, in comparison to other characters who all have an(extremely effective) answer ? Like I said, I am usually not one to complain but the evidence here is just overwhelming.

Maybe you are just that good that you can put up with it, but I think he is pretty flawed when compared to the rest of the cast. It is at least worth a try to voice our opinions.They want feedback so they can look at things and see if there is any truth to it. Patches will come, and the squeeky wheel gets the oil. If we say nothing, he will stay flawed.

3918
  1. Target combo whiffs on crouchers

Yeah so what? That shit leads to a lot of damage WITH meter and is a great whiff punish on standing normals.

  1. s.hk crush counter whiffs on crouchers

You can get the same combos that crush counter s.hk gives you with counter hit s.fp in claw and unique ones in clawless. If someone whiffs a uppercut such as Karin you can do:

claw s.hp xx SC, c.mk, s.mp xx s.hk xx EX FBA, grab etc or

clawless s.fp xx SC, claw s.fp xx SC, c.mp xx EX FBA, grab

  1. Hurtbox can be hit even when claw isn’t there

Everyone’s hurt boxes linger post active frames, you can punish Sim cause of this and things like Chun’s sweep etc, it isnt Vega exclusive

  1. Comparing Vega to Birdie/Gief

Go play them then

  1. c.fp being beat by drop kicks

I don’t even know what the fuck you are referencing. R.Mika? You can destroy that move 1000 other ways. If you mean jump ins then I’m sorry you don’t have a universal button. Choose one of his other options:

s.hk
Air throw
Neutral jump jab, mk, mp
pre emptive HP ASE in your weak AA space
Slide under

  1. s.hp xx SC on block

Yeah it’s negative in his claw (ranged) stance. You want a mix up do it from clawless where it’s +1. Claw stance is meant for ranged combat more than in your face mix ups.

  1. Anti air issues

See #5

Sounds like you rather complain to Combofiend til Vega gets a shoryuken. Street Fighter is like split second Chess except some characters have better pieces than others. It’s up to you as a player to make up for it with your gameplay. Instead of instantly askign for buffs go into training mode. Seems like one of the best answers people give such as @Veserius but no one listens.

Biggest example is you complaint on crush counter punishes. Guess what? Crush counters are not always the best punish. A good example is Necalli blocking Cammy’s Cannon Spike. If he uses a crush counter with MAX meter he actually does less damage. Vega does a shitload on damage on counter hit, but it doesnt have to be a crush counter.

I don;t mean to sound like a dick, but a lot of this stuff seriously is things you figure out in training mode.

3919

@RagingStormX First of all, i’m not here to argue with you. I’m on the Vega forums to discuss Vega’s weaknesses and strengths, so calm the fuck down and check your attitude.

Second of all, you make some good points, and have given some good tips but you didn’t just dead every point I made.

  1. The TC whiffs, so what? It fucking whiffs so if someone is just crouching 90% of the game you barely get an opportunity to use it. The clawless st.fp combo you gave is nice, but it isn’t a punish for people who are crouching after their dp. Who else’s TC whiffs? I’m highly curious.

  2. Hk crush counter whiffing. This is his ONLY means of getting CC damage where everyone else on the cast has easy and guaranteed CC confirms. I’m pretty sure most of them have 2 CC moves that they can combo into. My point is, why is Vega’s shit so ridiculously lackluster? Once again, people crouching all the time, or DPs that crouch, mean you whiff, you did give a good tip with the st.fp SC combo tho. So I thank you for that.

  3. I didn’t just compare Birdie and Gief to Vega, I told you that they can punish him from full screen in a ridiculous type of way. Go to the Birdie/Gief forms and you can see for yourself what i’m talking about. I don’t want to play those two characters, I want to play the character that I picked on a whim and thought was halfway decent.

  4. I’m talking about jump in drop kicks from Ryu, aka j.hk, not Mika’s charged hk. I know how to punish her. My whole point there was Vega’s lack of AA moves and his extreme vulnerability to people just jumping over him like retards. Every other character has easy ways to deal with this, yet you have to damn near be a psychic with Vega even have a chance at dealing with it.

  5. The lack of mixup makes him predictable, and people have been doing st.hp SC from claw stance when it is easily blown up. We discussed it and why in the tech thread. There is literally no mixup there, when once again, every other character has options in a situation like that.

I have been in training mode a lot and I have been talking to Veserius and many more people. Like I said, maybe you are just that good that you don’t mind the drawbacks, but literally every other person on this board has been saying the same shit i’m saying now, and it isn’t just a coincidence. Once again, if you don’t give a shit, and just wanna tell me to get good, thats cool also. I however, think that giving feedback and suggestions to a person who will listen, wouldn’t hurt. Better than just sitting there and saying nothing when there are obviously major problems with the char.

Hes not complete shit, but he definitely could use a buff or two in comparison to everyone else, and I know that many here agree with me. Don’t act like you don’t know that this game is going to change heavily between now and a year, and probably multiple years after that. Where do you think those changes come from? People testing shit, and figuring shit out. Thnx for your tips tho.

3920

I agree that crush counter isn’t really a problem. I seems cooler to have a “crush counter” punish just because of the aesthetic effects of nothing else, haha. Maybe it adds more stun too? But his s.HP > SC combos work splendidly as punishes. And personally, I feel Vega might be top 10. He gets insane damage off of his punishes when he has meter and V-trigger. More than most of the cast if I’m not mistaken.

My biggest gripe is his anti-air game. I am hoping it’s just a matter of familiarizing myself with all his tools. I’m able to use s.HK and c.HP effectively, but once people start crossing up and get “too close”, it’s night impossible to anti air them. Maybe I need to use s.LP more?

The whole hitbox hurtboxes thing is getting a bit out of hand. With proper spacing, he still has decent pokes. I do feel claw on is a bit underwhelming and may phase out making him half a character. I guess that’s my only concern right now.