Thanks, JigglyNorris and Silver Rain have also been some of the best T.Hawk and Cammy players I’ve battled respectively.
William: I’m afraid I’m not on HDR all that often. I prefer GGPO with its minimal lag so I’m on there a lot more (I go by Ganelon on GGPO). If you don’t mind some ST action, feel free to join up and challenge me sometime. I know I’ve seen JigglyNorris on GGPO lately perfecting his walkup 360s.
I know him as “Branta”, but Ganelon is definitely the best Claw I’ve played on PSN. Good to know that he’s also one of the best on XBL and GGPO. First time I faced deep, crossup Wall Dives on knockdown. It was hard enough to figure out which side to block, forget about even countering them. LOL
Last time I played Kurticus I beat him. He is a beast however. I think Vega vs Vega is a difficult match up. That said I KNOW his Vega is better against MORE characters than mine. I know that sounds odd but I think I match up well against his Vega its just I think he is more rounded and overall against more characters than I am.
i know this is old, but 4 those of you that believe baconology never rage quits i have him on tape doing it at least 3 times on me. ill post it one of these days…
The Tokido/Sirlin match pretty much is how you should play Blanka to a T.
[media=youtube]RpUvDJjdmHI[/media]
Seeing the spacing needed to keep Blanka at bay has helped me. I’ve seen people use standing FP after Blanka does his ball however it seems like it comes out slower than crouching MP.
s.HP is always the best response after a blocked ball in ST; Tokido tried that the first time but he was too slow. It’s possible he wasn’t sure whether he messed up or whether there was input lag and decided to just play it safe the rest of the way. He also missed a few free wakeup opportunities but otherwise, yeah, a solid cautious approach to the match.
st:hp: is only guaranteed in ST.
Use :d::mp: in HDR for a guaranteed hit after ball.
He has quit on me a few times, but lately he’s been taking his beatings like a man and not quiting.
What does most of you safe jump with? I at times will allow people to get off a reversal and you’d be surprised at how many people do reversals over and over after landing one regardless of whether or not it leaves them vulnerable. Jumping in just short of their reversal and punishing them gets people thinking a lot.
I’m working on safe jumping in to keep pressure on people that love to reversal and could use some tips. And although baiting them works I’d like to be able to press the issue more.
About Claw:
In SSF2, T-Akiba ranks claw as the #3 character in the game (#2 dhalsim, #1 sagat)
http://games.t-akiba.net/sf2/diagrama.html
SSF2 claw has
R. Claw is certainly better than O. Claw
He’s very, very strong from his range, jump speed, and hitboxes alone
Well, I wrote about the different versions of claw in another topic but I may as well post them here too for reference:
-CE claw is decent (even in CE itself) primarily because of major throw damage (about 25% on the average character, the strongest normal ground throw in the game). The hitboxes on his normals are also fair but he’s very limited in options and the floaty wall dive isn’t nearly as powerful as it is in the CPS2 iterations
-HF claw was dumbed down almost as much as dic between iterations with slower speed, worse priority on some moves, and drastically reduced throw damage. He can’t do enough damage in this version
-Super claw is OK with a lot more different normals compared to the CPS1 versions and 1 recovery frame advantage on all his crouching pokes compared to ST claw (but no flipkick, no super, less throw damage, no ability to get back the claw, and the incorrect wall dive motion)
-ST O.claw is the same as Super claw (including the incorrect charge d,K,u wall dive motion) except that upon a successful wall dive, the opponent always falls towards the wall you dive on
-Super claw and O.claw in Hyper are normal O.claw except with the correct wall dive motion
-N.claw in Hyper is normal N.claw except with the incorrect wall dive motion
-R.claw is the same as ST N.claw except that wall dives don’t knock down on grounded opponents (possible to combo afterwards with specific timing/positioning) and it’s not possible to keep the charge for flipkicks by holding straight back anymore
I’ve never noticed anything different about claw’s wall dive charge in SSF2 compared to ST. Are you sure you’re not confusing that with the incorrect motion? However, I do agree that r.claw is better than o.claw (which just means that wall dive loops were overrated).
I’m not sure I agree with range and jump speed giving him a significant advantage though; CE and HF claw had both of those yet he was still too limited in other areas to be at the top. If claw didn’t have a claw, would he be significantly weaker? Personally, I doubt it.
I think that he simply has moves with good hitboxes that allow you to poke or counter with effective precision. In different matches, claw relies on particular moves. Whether it’s wall dive, flipkick, c.MP, c.HK, j.HP, s.MK, etc., he has appropriate moves with advantageous hitboxes. But although claw normally wins on hitboxes statistically (which is IMO why he still has a slight advantage over most characters), he also does slightly less damage and takes more damage than most characters. Knowing what and when to use against high level comp is the challenging part.
That T.Akiba diagram is very outdated. The 2008 Arcadia Tier Rankings and 2008 Arcadia Diagram are far more current examples of how things are viewed in ST.
That’s not the point he is trying to make.
He is talking about SSF2 not ST where claw did not have a flipkick and a very bad walldive but was still considered a Top character.
Making the point that based on that R.Claw is still Top Tier.
VF4: What Shari said. Sorry if my post was confusing. I was making the point that SSF2 claw was very strong. R. Claw is better than SSF2 claw, and still strong. Basically my point is that the wall dive is not the reason why claw was so strong in ST.
ganelon: Hmm. I admit that I am just recalling charge time being atrocious in SSF2 from memory. I played Claw in CE, HF, SSF2, and ST… and I remember thinking that charge times were incredibly long in SSF2. I admit I also didn’t know about the incorrect motion. I was able to do it, but I had to charge much longer. For example, I remember being happy and suprises that in ST claw could do walldive into another walldive. My recollection is that this was not possible in SSF2 because of charge times. Am I wrong?
I think you recalled them being long because SSF2 was so slow. I just tested to be 100% sure. You can definitely use wall dive loops just as in ST (and just as with ST, if you wall dive to a nearby wall immediately after another wall dive, it’ll completely whiff because the opponent hasn’t gotten up yet). The only issue is that because it’s charge d,K,u, you may have thought it was the charge time that was lengthy rather than the longer time making you perform the motion slightly differently.
It’s amazing how much that motion will affect your habits. At the first tourney I came out on top in (playing AE at the time), I used o.claw over n.claw because I felt normal motion wall dives were a better deal overall than relying on his full ground game with an awkward wall dive motion. Even today, I think against good players, the ability to consistently perform position-perfect wall dives at will is important in more matches than having flipkicks.
the charge time for the wall dives didnt change at all throughout the sf2 series. its just that the wall dives were pitifully slow in ce and hf compared to ssf2 and st incarnation.
also, wall dives didnt knock down on in the ce and hf version but to make up for that, the izuna drop has humongous range in ce. dunno about hf, vega sucks in that version.
the charge for the wall dive was glitched and fucked up in the ae version along with old sagats tiger shots. (i bet capcom did it on purpose since those 2 were the most spammable moves in st) however, the re-released version of ae fixed the glitches and returned everything back to its glory.
i miss using ce vega. sure he was basic, but he was effective. his normal throw has the biggest range in the game outside of command throws and it did more damage than giefs spd. using lp, mp, lk, mk as anti air was nice too. it’s basically his c.hp in st but sped up. his c.hp in ce and hf was his c.mp but harder hitting and slightly slower.
Is it just me or is Gief’s Lariat ridicolously hard to punish online ?
Feels like you have to almost guess if they are going to do it or not if there is even the slightest lag.
Slide will beat it cleanly after initial spin but timing that online feels impossible as sometimes it will just pass right through his Lariat and leave you sitting there ready to be hit by whatever they want.
I have no trouble punishing whiffed :lp: Ken SRK even in heavy lag, Is the move that much harder to punish by comparison ?
It feels like Gief can simply do that lariat over and over without me being able to do much about it without risking a knockdown and potential GGPO from a good Gief.
Walldive works but with even the slightest lag present it’s the same thing with timing it and positioning to beat lariat.
Is there some way to safely punish it that’s reliable even online ?
The Skyhigh Claw I’ve found to be able to beat it but even that is a matter of prediction rather than punishing.
I’ve generally retired Claw, and have gone for a sexy Chinese gal who shall remain nameless :lovin: however…
I’ve typically punished Gief with a forward j. mp while he is in his lariat. Generally sticks out enough to go j. mp to the head, followed by c.mp for a quick 2-hit combo. Works wonders. You could also go neutral j.fp if spacing if prohibitive. Try it. Practice timing on combo or you’ll get an SPD from unsafe action.
Just be careful if he is going backwards to try to get out of range. Most Giefs move forward, so usually works
streetfighterdojo.com: ST Vega (Claw) Page
I finally got the ST Vega (Claw) section up at streetfighterdojo.com.
The link is:
http://streetfighterdojo.com/superturbo/claw/clawmatches.html
Yes, it’s ST and not HDR, but some of it is similar and I expect HDR players will get some use out of the matches and extras.
T. Hawk is next in line.
Thank you 