USFIV Poison frame data thread

[tali]

Her overhead is unsafe on hit? I have even been thrown once I landed - seems like SFxT all over again.

LMT is also unsafe on block - Highly disappointed about that one - I have tried to neutral jump to avoid being throw, but this is undesirable in the long run (I even think throw teching is not desirable -Poison is not really “safe” either way). Outside of EX She doesn’t really seem to have many moves that give her advantage on block? The only thing I can think of is trying to measure the distance of LMT so that Poison nicks her opponent with the tip of her heels so that she is out of range of being thrown when she lands (sort of defeats the purpose of going over fireballs though).

If there is a possible patch update when retail version gets released, I do hope they make LMT a little safer on block - if not her rush-down game seems rather watered-down?

I also don’t like her walk speed - she feels so “heavy”.

Woah woah woah. … -1is beautiful for a forward moving projectile invincible move with either a hard knockdown or follow up combo potential. First off it has several active frames and it’s a move that travels a distance and it’s -1 first hit, for example if you do it right at the start of the round and they block, it hits meaty and your plus frames. Also the distance you are left is out of -1 punishes usually. Also if you follow up with a jab and the opponent doesn’t have a 3 frame jab, your now even at least. Throw in a few dps after a blocked one and that can keep them honest

[Drake_Aldan]

HK DP doesn’t have any invincibility?

@Ramma

http://youtu.be/KJB3RmUshS4

Seems that way.

LMT is also unsafe on block - Highly disappointed about that one -

@eccomancer It’s not unsafe, it’s -1, as others have said. You get to cr. LP all you want. Yes, they can reversal, but you just block. Yes, they can throw you or 3-frame jab you, but Ultra 2 blows that right up.

[Dontdodat]

I didn’t think about U2 after LMT on block, gonna try that later. Love U2 but can’t justify it over U1, even in a red focus combo the damage is only slightly more.

[tali]

HK DP doesn’t have any invincibility?

@Ramma

http://youtu.be/KJB3RmUshS4

Seems that way.

LMT is also unsafe on block - Highly disappointed about that one -

@eccomancer It’s not unsafe, it’s -1, as others have said. You get to cr. LP all you want. Yes, they can reversal, but you just block. Yes, they can throw you or 3-frame jab you, but Ultra 2 blows that right up.

Honestly if u had u1 and did a ex dp fadc u1, you would have won, or been safe if the ex dp fadc was blocked, and still had 1 bar for a potential ex rekka> u1

[Nevran]

I can be wrong but on this video at 7 min 56:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=_zzx3UUkVQ0

It seem that Poison did a combo after her overhead and it wasn’t a counterhit. Did I mistake the move for an other in the frame data (Her overhead is her forward mp no?) or shouldn’t she be +3/+4 on hit?

[SWAG_KING_YOLO]

If you hit it deep enough the frame advantage can get up to +6 I think.

[eccomancer]

If you hit it deep enough the frame advantage can get up to +6 I think.

I believe this is true. Although not consistently, I have been able to combo off her overhead and even super after the overhead - I am not sure exactly what contributes to this though. It feels like you have to be a character distance away from the opponent then do the overhead into super etc (like the hit occurs while poison is coming down from the air). I haven’t been able to combo off her overhead when its used right on top of the opponent.

Edit: seems more consistent on crouching opponents lol

@eccomancer It’s not unsafe, it’s -1, as others have said. You get to cr. LP all you want. Yes, they can reversal, but you just block. Yes, they can throw you or 3-frame jab you, but Ultra 2 blows that right up.

Woah woah woah. … -1is beautiful for a forward moving projectile invincible move with either a hard knockdown or follow up combo potential. First off it has several active frames and it’s a move that travels a distance and it’s -1 first hit, for example if you do it right at the start of the round and they block, it hits meaty and your plus frames. Also the distance you are left is out of -1 punishes usually. Also if you follow up with a jab and the opponent doesn’t have a 3 frame jab, your now even at least. Throw in a few dps after a blocked one and that can keep them honest

I’ll try the DP thing against throws and see how that works. I did try her backflip, but that didn’t work out. I’m not really worried about the 3-frame jabs as such. It’s just being thrown that is annoying (Elena also seems to have a skwonky hurtbox?). I’ll try ultra 2 as well - I usually play W ultra and sometimes get ultra 2 off resets and opponent’s wake up pressure.

EDIT: Did I miss something? Combofiend says LMT is slightly positive on block (at around 6:05):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU3DgpLvOS4#t=361

[tali]

If you hit it deep enough the frame advantage can get up to +6 I think.

I believe this is true. Although not consistently, I have been able to combo off her overhead and even super after the overhead - I am not sure exactly what contributes to this though. It feels like you have to be a character distance away from the opponent then do the overhead into super etc (like the hit occurs while poison is coming down from the air). I haven’t been able to combo off her overhead when its used right on top of the opponent.

Edit: seems more consistent on crouching opponents lol

@eccomancer It’s not unsafe, it’s -1, as others have said. You get to cr. LP all you want. Yes, they can reversal, but you just block. Yes, they can throw you or 3-frame jab you, but Ultra 2 blows that right up.

Woah woah woah. … -1is beautiful for a forward moving projectile invincible move with either a hard knockdown or follow up combo potential. First off it has several active frames and it’s a move that travels a distance and it’s -1 first hit, for example if you do it right at the start of the round and they block, it hits meaty and your plus frames. Also the distance you are left is out of -1 punishes usually. Also if you follow up with a jab and the opponent doesn’t have a 3 frame jab, your now even at least. Throw in a few dps after a blocked one and that can keep them honest

I’ll try the DP thing against throws and see how that works. I did try her backflip, but that didn’t work out. I’m not really worried about the 3-frame jabs as such. It’s just being thrown that is annoying (Elena also seems to have a skwonky hurtbox?). I’ll try ultra 2 as well - I usually play W ultra and sometimes get ultra 2 off resets and opponent’s wake up pressure.

EDIT: Did I miss something? Combofiend says LMT is slightly positive on block (at around 6:05):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU3DgpLvOS4#t=361

Moves have multiple active frames. These frames determine how long the move can hit during its total animation. The on hit and on block stats are calculated based on the first possible active frame landing. Landing a move on a later frame essentially adds one more frame of advantage based on the later the frame. This is called a meaty. So landing on the first frame of her overhead is negative but landing on a later one (like on a croucher) becomes positive. So back to what combo find said , landing the flip kick on the first active frame leaves you at -1 which is hella safe, but landing on the second or third frame etc etc will make it positive so that’s what he meant.

[rhymeswithaddy]

Removing comment as it’s not really frame data related.

[Ramma]

Do we know the advantage on hit/block after a LP and EX Aeolus FADC?

[tali]

It’s hella positive

[Drake_Aldan]

Do we know the advantage on hit/block after a LP and EX Aeolus FADC?

LP AE FADC on hit is at least +6 if not more.

[Formless]

Her sweep recovery takes so long I was really hoping that since it is no longer cancelable that they would balance it by giving it better recovery.

[Eternal]

Aut0MAtiC'S request thread

Vitality: 1000
Whip of Love: / 1 / HL / 40 / 50 / 12-15-17 / 2 / 21 / +2 / -4 / Whip of Love follow up, Su / Forces Stand, Causes free juggle state against aerial opponent, juggle potential 2.
Whip of Love 2nd hit / 1 / HL / 50 / 50 / 13 / 3 / 25 / -4 / -9 / Whip of Love Follow up, Su / Juggle potential 2.
Whip of Love 3rd hit / 1 / HL / 80 / 50 / 13 / 1 / 32 / - / -12 / - / Hard knockdown, Juggle potential 2.

EX Whip of Love / 1 / HL / 40 / 50 / 13 / 3 / 21 / +1 / -3 / Whip of love follow up, Su / Forces Stand, Causes free juggle state against aerial opponent, juggle potential 2.
EX Whip of Love 2nd hit / 1 / HL / 30 / 50 / 13 / 3 / 31 / -9 / -13 / Whip of love follow up, Su / Juggle potential 2.
EX Whip of Love 3rd Hit / 1 / HL / 30 / 50 / 13 / 5 / 28 -8 / -12 / Whip of Love follow up, Su, / Juggle potential 2.
EX Whip of love 4th hit / 1 / HL / 80 / 50 / 11 / 3 / 24 / - / -6 / Jump / Jump Cancleable on hit only, juggle potential 2.

Aeolus Edge :lp: / 1 / HL / 70 / 50 / 15 / - / 30 / 0 / -3 / Su / Causes free juggle state against aerial opponent.
Aeolus Edge :mp: / 1 / HL / 70 / 50 / 17 / - / 27 / +3 / 0 / Su / ( 45% screen length) , causes free juggle state on aerial opponent.
Aeolus Edge :hp: / 1 / HL / 70 / 50 / 23 / - / 20 / +10 / +7 / Su / (30% of the screen length), causes free juggle state on aerial opponent.

EX Aeolus Edge / 2 / HL / 50,50 / 50,50 / 9 / - / 29 / +4 / +2 / Su / (75% screen length), Both hits cause free juggle state on aerial opponent, 1st hit juggle potential 1, 2nd hit juggle potential 2, Neither hit raises juggle counter.

Having gotten to all of Poison’s moves yet looking through her files. However I thought I’d clear up some of the incorrect data here.

Whip is in fact JP3 not JP2. It does start at JP0 on air hit though. Juggle usage incrementally increases by 1 per hit.
Edge is JP3 starts at JP0. Juggle increment is 1
EX Edge first hit is JP3 starts at JP0 on air hit.
2nd hit of EX Edge is JP3 Starts at JP0 however it does add 1 JP used on hit.

All of Poison’s normals actually have JP1. Though not all of them have JP1 throughout the whole move. Close HK it’s only 1st hit. Far MP it’s only 1st active frame. crMP it’s only first 2F active. Far HP it’s only first active frame. Chained normals do not have JP. Jumping normals have JP0 but when you jump cancel EX Whip it uses a different set of air normals that have JP1.

[therook]

Edited in new information in bold. Thank you for the update. I’ll try to update it as soon as more info is presented. Again thank you for your info.

[Eternal]

U1 Projectile first 2F is JP2, remaining frames are JP3

[Eternal]

August 08 title update changed some stuff for poison.

Her chained lights now all have the same frame data (but still don’t have juggle potential, and still have some other problems you can read about in the buglist thread in general forums.)

Juggle potential was increased to cover all active frames of all of her grounded normals (except for chained lights as I said.) previously there were a few exceptions (far HP, farMP, crMP, closeHK) now they all have JP1 for entire duration.

The Ultra 1 projectile now travels farther and faster than before.

[Velius]

I tried out the ultra 1 buff from ex rekka midscreen. It now hits Guy, Guile, Dudley (timing strict)

Still misses on Cody and E.Honda. SIGH I just want some midscreen confirmable damage on Honda because trying to do resets on Honda is stupid.

[Wedge_Antilles]

Is Ultra 1 definitely 11f startup? Or is HP AE +11 on hit? Because I’m pretty sure it’s always possible to combo U1 after an point blank HP AE (or more practically from CH cl. hk 1-hit xx HP AE).

[tali]

Is Ultra 1 definitely 11f startup? Or is HP AE +11 on hit? Because I’m pretty sure it’s always possible to combo U1 after an point blank HP AE (or more practically from CH cl. hk 1-hit xx HP AE).

It’s 10 frame start up