USF4 | Tier List Thread (updated October 2015)

[DelayedWakeUp]

Meanwhile Dave over at the Tali T-1000 android factory -

" Jim, he’s fucked it again, lasted 60 posts this time, fire another one up for deployment, we Gota find some way of keeping him stable"

What the hell are you even talking about?

[ilitirit]

The last few pages of this thread gave me cancer.

[otori]

I dunno it’s a good shift from the usual circlejerk. I enjoy Tali’s posts, he just has trouble coming to terms with different viewpoints.

Ded gaem anywayz.

[Highlandfireball]

Meanwhile Dave over at the Tali T-1000 android factory -

" Jim, he’s fucked it again, lasted 60 posts this time, fire another one up for deployment, we Gota find some way of keeping him stable"

What the hell are you even talking about?

High level mind games. A tier - if you believe in that sort of thing.

[TheFreshPrince]

You can always tell its tali, because he’ll drop little bits of actually useful information, but it’s accompanied by a shitload of ignorance and stupidity.

[MachoRhombus]

The last few pages of this thread gave me cancer.

Made me remember the good old Akuma days.

[Sephiroth73003]

The last few pages of this thread gave me cancer.

But … But … But … Dhalsim vs Yun is like a 5-5 everyone is just playing it wrong!

[Eternal]

People are entitled to have their opinions and there is no reason to echo chamber them if they don’t align with yours as long as you can provide a coherent debate about it that also allows admitting being wrong, or if not “wrong” (as it may be a difference in opinion rather than a fact) simply being willing to discuss an idea civilly and listen rather than entirely settle on your view before engaging others. This isn’t to say you have to not believe your own views wholeheartedly but you should at least take the time to consider others.

Ultimately a debate shouldn’t be an attempt to rack up points and declare a winner but rather to explore the ideas and view points from multiple angles.

Sadly that is an idealistic view that no one, not even myself despite requesting it, typically follows as well as they should. Some make little attempt to do so at all, and that is why I have them on ignore usually.

[Toxic_Beauty]

The Point of some Tierlist is also the personal opinion.
Last time someone asked Daigo about Tiers he listed Cammy still top 5, no one else does this right now, because we have so many strong players with different strong characters now.

Cammy is still strong and can do what she did in AE2012.

Seth is still a strong character,even after all these nerfs.

E.Ryu is a good character, but has very little health.

Elena might be good, but I think people just haven’t figured out how to shut her down.

Rolento has a awesome offence,ones he gets knocked down he is basicly free.

In Ultra has it comes a lot more down to the Player and the MU.
Good player make worse characters look Top Tier, best example is Bonchan.
Or Luffy with Rose, Rose is realy good in Ultra, but still struggels against everything that can just stay in her face and chase her down the whole time.

Sometimes Tierlists are just a opinion and sometimes they’re a fact.
I think every tierlist in Ultra is just a opinion,otherwise we have ~22 characters in the top 10.

Tier lists are never fact. Take a look at ST, almost every year the top players sit down and do a comprehensive review of all the match ups and modify the tier lists if they feel things have changed. We’re talking about a game that’s decades old, extremely simplistic and straight forward and not nearly as many characters as any other street fighter after it. And yet almost every year or two the tier list changes, whether it be extremely minor or even major changes. Chun and DJ have gone from top tier to high tier, cammy has gone from complete ass to mid tier. Thawk has gone from worst character to best character etc etc. Tier lists are not facts at all and just opinions, and SRK, eventhubs, capcomunity, twitter and all these open forums that give people a voice have based their tier lists opinions solely on characters that are winning in tournaments or that Japanese players say who they think top 5 is and it’s pretty pathetic. My favorite was back when Nemo started to blow up a bit during the beginning of usf4 because daigo was his training partner and Nemo had the most BP in the arcades as well as his amazing offensive play with rolento. He immediately used that buzz to say that poison was a top 5 character (specifically 4th I think), and tons of people blindly just parroted that statement, the amount of poisons online went up and I even seen some players at locals start trying to use her just because a Japanese player said top 5. What ever ended up with that hype? Almost never see her online being played well, don’t see her at the locals anymore and at the high level, she’s a pocket character at best and has had less success out of all 5 new characters and arguably the worst of the 5

How come Poison is barely seen online anymore? What happened?

I come across a lot of people using Decapre nowadays.

[Eternal]

The Point of some Tierlist is also the personal opinion.
Last time someone asked Daigo about Tiers he listed Cammy still top 5, no one else does this right now, because we have so many strong players with different strong characters now.

Cammy is still strong and can do what she did in AE2012.

Seth is still a strong character,even after all these nerfs.

E.Ryu is a good character, but has very little health.

Elena might be good, but I think people just haven’t figured out how to shut her down.

Rolento has a awesome offence,ones he gets knocked down he is basicly free.

In Ultra has it comes a lot more down to the Player and the MU.
Good player make worse characters look Top Tier, best example is Bonchan.
Or Luffy with Rose, Rose is realy good in Ultra, but still struggels against everything that can just stay in her face and chase her down the whole time.

Sometimes Tierlists are just a opinion and sometimes they’re a fact.
I think every tierlist in Ultra is just a opinion,otherwise we have ~22 characters in the top 10.

Tier lists are never fact. Take a look at ST, almost every year the top players sit down and do a comprehensive review of all the match ups and modify the tier lists if they feel things have changed. We’re talking about a game that’s decades old, extremely simplistic and straight forward and not nearly as many characters as any other street fighter after it. And yet almost every year or two the tier list changes, whether it be extremely minor or even major changes. Chun and DJ have gone from top tier to high tier, cammy has gone from complete ass to mid tier. Thawk has gone from worst character to best character etc etc. Tier lists are not facts at all and just opinions, and SRK, eventhubs, capcomunity, twitter and all these open forums that give people a voice have based their tier lists opinions solely on characters that are winning in tournaments or that Japanese players say who they think top 5 is and it’s pretty pathetic. My favorite was back when Nemo started to blow up a bit during the beginning of usf4 because daigo was his training partner and Nemo had the most BP in the arcades as well as his amazing offensive play with rolento. He immediately used that buzz to say that poison was a top 5 character (specifically 4th I think), and tons of people blindly just parroted that statement, the amount of poisons online went up and I even seen some players at locals start trying to use her just because a Japanese player said top 5. What ever ended up with that hype? Almost never see her online being played well, don’t see her at the locals anymore and at the high level, she’s a pocket character at best and has had less success out of all 5 new characters and arguably the worst of the 5

How come Poison is barely seen online anymore? What happened?

I come across a lot of people using Decapre nowadays.

Other characters got better, she got a couple of nerfs, her hurtbox was adjusted. A number of things, plus even at her height of tier listing she wasn’t crazy popular. How many people who played Poison at a high level at any point can you think of?

Meta shifts also affect things as well. To be clear I’m not specifically saying this applies to Poison. However a character could do well or even beat 2/3rds of the cast but doesn’t do well vs any of the typically seen tournament / popular characters so you don’t see people play them much or get very far. Likewise the reverse, a mediocre character could do very well vs the top tiers or characters commonly seen in tournaments despite his tier placement overall.

[DelayedWakeUp]

The Point of some Tierlist is also the personal opinion.
Last time someone asked Daigo about Tiers he listed Cammy still top 5, no one else does this right now, because we have so many strong players with different strong characters now.

Cammy is still strong and can do what she did in AE2012.

Seth is still a strong character,even after all these nerfs.

E.Ryu is a good character, but has very little health.

Elena might be good, but I think people just haven’t figured out how to shut her down.

Rolento has a awesome offence,ones he gets knocked down he is basicly free.

In Ultra has it comes a lot more down to the Player and the MU.
Good player make worse characters look Top Tier, best example is Bonchan.
Or Luffy with Rose, Rose is realy good in Ultra, but still struggels against everything that can just stay in her face and chase her down the whole time.

Sometimes Tierlists are just a opinion and sometimes they’re a fact.
I think every tierlist in Ultra is just a opinion,otherwise we have ~22 characters in the top 10.

Tier lists are never fact. Take a look at ST, almost every year the top players sit down and do a comprehensive review of all the match ups and modify the tier lists if they feel things have changed. We’re talking about a game that’s decades old, extremely simplistic and straight forward and not nearly as many characters as any other street fighter after it. And yet almost every year or two the tier list changes, whether it be extremely minor or even major changes. Chun and DJ have gone from top tier to high tier, cammy has gone from complete ass to mid tier. Thawk has gone from worst character to best character etc etc. Tier lists are not facts at all and just opinions, and SRK, eventhubs, capcomunity, twitter and all these open forums that give people a voice have based their tier lists opinions solely on characters that are winning in tournaments or that Japanese players say who they think top 5 is and it’s pretty pathetic. My favorite was back when Nemo started to blow up a bit during the beginning of usf4 because daigo was his training partner and Nemo had the most BP in the arcades as well as his amazing offensive play with rolento. He immediately used that buzz to say that poison was a top 5 character (specifically 4th I think), and tons of people blindly just parroted that statement, the amount of poisons online went up and I even seen some players at locals start trying to use her just because a Japanese player said top 5. What ever ended up with that hype? Almost never see her online being played well, don’t see her at the locals anymore and at the high level, she’s a pocket character at best and has had less success out of all 5 new characters and arguably the worst of the 5

How come Poison is barely seen online anymore? What happened?

I come across a lot of people using Decapre nowadays.

She’s not the easiest character to just pick up and play and have fun with. She doesn’t have the highest damage on her combos or is the execution easy when all her combos have one frame links in there somewhere. She walks very slow and her buttons start up slow and have very few active frames so you have to be much more precise with your spacing and inputs. She is played extremely lame with fireballs zoning to build meter and chip away at the opponent until she scores a knockdown and then with meter can run some tricky set play.

People don’t want to play that when out of the other 5, you can pick rolento and spam rolls and knives in a more cynical way.

You can pick Hugo and do hype clap combos and kill anyone in 2 combos

You could pick Elena and heal 3 times a round and have a hurtbox the size of a piece of paper.

Or you can pick Decapre and mash hands and spam teleport feints and 50/50 smash’s. Oh and don’t forget all those wake up stings.

[Cipher]

How come Poison is barely seen online anymore? What happened?

I come across a lot of people using Decapre nowadays.

Online has it’s own tierlist.
It’s online much harder to react to some things or punish. Delay,Lag are your worst MU’s online.

Poison actually has to use her head to win.
Her H Aeolus Edge has very slow startup, what makes it harder to space right. Some chars can just react with a jump-in and Poisons anti-airing isn’t the greatest,especialy against divekicks. Her standing hitbox is also gigantic.

Online heroes are in general characters with either easy execution and gameplay or abuseable things most online players don’t know how to deal with.
I meet some days ago a Blanka with 4kPP and 23KBP. All he did was j.hk and Thunder.
Now fear this glorious hero!!!

[Highlandfireball]

The Point of some Tierlist is also the personal opinion.
Last time someone asked Daigo about Tiers he listed Cammy still top 5, no one else does this right now, because we have so many strong players with different strong characters now.

Cammy is still strong and can do what she did in AE2012.

Seth is still a strong character,even after all these nerfs.

E.Ryu is a good character, but has very little health.

Elena might be good, but I think people just haven’t figured out how to shut her down.

Rolento has a awesome offence,ones he gets knocked down he is basicly free.

In Ultra has it comes a lot more down to the Player and the MU.
Good player make worse characters look Top Tier, best example is Bonchan.
Or Luffy with Rose, Rose is realy good in Ultra, but still struggels against everything that can just stay in her face and chase her down the whole time.

Sometimes Tierlists are just a opinion and sometimes they’re a fact.
I think every tierlist in Ultra is just a opinion,otherwise we have ~22 characters in the top 10.

Tier lists are never fact. Take a look at ST, almost every year the top players sit down and do a comprehensive review of all the match ups and modify the tier lists if they feel things have changed. We’re talking about a game that’s decades old, extremely simplistic and straight forward and not nearly as many characters as any other street fighter after it. And yet almost every year or two the tier list changes, whether it be extremely minor or even major changes. Chun and DJ have gone from top tier to high tier, cammy has gone from complete ass to mid tier. Thawk has gone from worst character to best character etc etc. Tier lists are not facts at all and just opinions, and SRK, eventhubs, capcomunity, twitter and all these open forums that give people a voice have based their tier lists opinions solely on characters that are winning in tournaments or that Japanese players say who they think top 5 is and it’s pretty pathetic. My favorite was back when Nemo started to blow up a bit during the beginning of usf4 because daigo was his training partner and Nemo had the most BP in the arcades as well as his amazing offensive play with rolento. He immediately used that buzz to say that poison was a top 5 character (specifically 4th I think), and tons of people blindly just parroted that statement, the amount of poisons online went up and I even seen some players at locals start trying to use her just because a Japanese player said top 5. What ever ended up with that hype? Almost never see her online being played well, don’t see her at the locals anymore and at the high level, she’s a pocket character at best and has had less success out of all 5 new characters and arguably the worst of the 5

How come Poison is barely seen online anymore? What happened?

I come across a lot of people using Decapre nowadays.

She’s not the easiest character to just pick up and play and have fun with. She doesn’t have the highest damage on her combos or is the execution easy when all her combos have one frame links in there somewhere. She walks very slow and her buttons start up slow and have very few active frames so you have to be much more precise with your spacing and inputs. She is played extremely lame with fireballs zoning to build meter and chip away at the opponent until she scores a knockdown and then with meter can run some tricky set play.

People don’t want to play that when out of the other 5, you can pick rolento and spam rolls and knives in a more cynical way.

You can pick Hugo and do hype clap combos and kill anyone in 2 combos

You could pick Elena and heal 3 times a round and have a hurtbox the size of a piece of paper.

Or you can pick Decapre and mash hands and spam teleport feints and 50/50 smash’s. Oh and don’t forget all those wake up stings.

Sounds like shes low tier, all the skills in the world wouldn’t make her good.

[Toxic_Beauty]

Thank you for your input everyone.

If Poison is low tier, why is she ranked Top 5 on Eventhubs.com?

[Highlandfireball]

I thought I was the only one fishing for responses. It’s like inception in here.

[Cipher]

Thank you for your input everyone.

If Poison is low tier, why is she ranked Top 5 on Eventhubs.com?

Evethubs Tierlist = The chars people have either no plan how to deal with or don’t want to play against.

I would put Poison upper midtier or hightier. She is good smart played.

[jebop]

Where’s all the Hugo players at?

[Highlandfireball]

Where’s all the Hugo players at?

Killing people in 2 combos. Anyone can do it.

[Eternal]

Asked Julio his thoughts on how to approach the Sim/Yun matchup and how he felt the match up was:

dhalsim has to take advantage of using his head-drill and back fierce to counter yuns divekicks (ex up-blast too)
dhalsims back roundhouse loses to divekick cause slow start up, back fierce is faster and is more active , good for divekick
after that just control him on the ground, react to lunges with back rh and always be wary of his air game, its all reaction
but being a yun player, yun destroys dhalsim if he does sneaky hard to see divekicks to get in

That sounds kind of like “Sim has options, but he has to play extremely well with no mistakes and if Yun gets in then Sim is screwed. He can do stuff if he is on point though.” to me at least.

[Highlandfireball]

Asked Julio his thoughts on how to approach the Sim/Yun matchup and how he felt the match up was:

dhalsim has to take advantage of using his head-drill and back fierce to counter yuns divekicks (ex up-blast too)
dhalsims back roundhouse loses to divekick cause slow start up, back fierce is faster and is more active , good for divekick
after that just control him on the ground, react to lunges with back rh and always be wary of his air game, its all reaction
but being a yun player, yun destroys dhalsim if he does sneaky hard to see divekicks to get in

That sounds kind of like “Sim has options, but he has to play extremely well with no mistakes and if Yun gets in then Sim is screwed. He can do stuff if he is on point though.” to me at least.

Which is pretty much what everyone knew already. Play perfect = win. Goes for almost any bad match.

Although certain characters are immune to mistakes, like Viper or Yun can take gambles almost for free considering the pay offs vs the risk.