You can also block confirm vanilla Ryu’s dps, even though they’re one hit. He stays on the ground so long. Those FADCs are not safe though, cuz you’re doing them later…make sure you backdash.
Ryu can combo into fireballs using the slow followed by the fast at the right distance when the opponent is in the corner.
I’ve been wondering if the fast fireball now doesn’t trade with Dhalsims limbs anymore.
Would make that matchup much less annoying.
You’re either a troll or a fool. I’m going to answer this one last time than I’m finding a Mod.
"What does any of this have to do with his slow fireball being slower?"
I said that the slower speed will give opponents the chance to decide whether they are going to focus punish or jump in on you. If the fireball is about to hit you the second its on screen, push 2 buttons and dash through with your punish. If you notice in that split second that you aren’t hit yet, try to jump it and use your air control to make your approach safe from shoryuken. Its not hard at all, play offline once in a while dude…
"Throwing a fireball is always a risk, having a greater speed difference between fast and slow fireballs is only going to make reacting appropriately more difficult."
Just because you think so doesn’t mean its actually true. If a fireball is going to hit you fast as fuck or not at all, all you have to do is block before jumping almost like an os based on time. You hit down back and if you aren’t blocking, when you hit up forward you will jump. Once you are in the air, all you have to do is work on your air control and force the guess on ryu…
"A focus in on a slower fireball is going to leave you at better advantage, also."
The whole conversation is about the opponent choosing to jump not focus a slower fireball because it isn’t fast enough to force the decision.
"You can’t visually confirm whether a fireball is fast or slow and THEN commit to some option like burn kick or low altitude dive kick with any kind of quick timing, that’s literally impossible,"
You don’t know what you are talking about, stop theory fighting and looking at frame charts all day. Go to practice mode, have ryu do a fast hadoken and a slow hadoken. Look that the distance where that shit puts you in block (fast) or lets you jump it (slow). At that point, pick your character with air control of choice and look for ways to make ryu whiff a dp, cross him up and/or beat out his AA normals. Once you get your that spacing down ryu is fucked because a slow fireball forces him to block and get pressured which ryu hates, baits his dp or stuffs his AA normals and a fast fireball gets focus dash punished because the opponent has done this hundreds to thousands of times. Now that the slow fireball is slower, it should be much easier for you to find that zone as it is larger. I had to put my time in the lab just to tell you some shit, now go put your own time in because I’m done telling you good shit.
I think it does. Even if you forget about the parry, Omega Ryu does a ton of damage. HK tatsu does 170, MK tatsu does 150 and hits crouchers, LP DP does 140, HP does 180 when hit as a anti-air, etc. Even the target combo does very good damage and is easy to confirm into. Oh and he has a freaking parry to lol. He is missing some stuff and some stuff doesn’t work anymore. But still I think Omega Ryu is the best Ryu among all of them.
Ryu mirrors are a lot more interesting and fast paced now with the fast fireball. It really improves the footsies game over the slow, neutral jumping crawl that it was before. Now you can hadoken their landing much easier and catch them on the way up too.
This whole argument is predicated on the idea that jumping at Ryu isn’t a big risk, and that “wait for a fireball and forward-jump it if it’s slow” is actually a good idea for a person to be doing. For the vast majority of match-ups, that is plainly untrue. Nevermind that we don’t live in this imaginary perfect clinical world you’re describing, and people regularly do goofy shit like react to fireball fakes or neutral jump and sit on fireballs even though technically they don’t have to
It’s funny that you’re accusing me of “theory fighting” when literally this whole argument started with you “theory fighting” about a counter-intuitive statement about two good buffs to Ryu’s fireball game when iirc 1.04 wasn’t even out yet. Also, it’s worth mentioning that if you just want the speed difference between old-fast and old-slow, why the heck can’t you just use new-fast and new-medium? It’s roughly the same difference, but happens even faster, except now you have a third, even slower option.
It’s not even like I’m the only person saying this, you’re literally the only Ryu player I’ve heard acting as if having three highly differentiated fireballs is actually worse than the way it was before. But I guess Air just doesn’t understand the importance of footsies and zoning when he describes the LP fireball change specifically as “good”. 
Slow fireball is useful, and good. Not as broadly useful as fast-fast fireball, but still better than before.
What’s wrong with the slow ball?
Even Daigo uses it to bait jump ins.
The slower it is the better. From the hado setup range, it’s really hard to tell if not impossible how fast the ball coming out is.
You got 4 options then: neutral jump and risk landing on the ball, jump back and block the ball, focus dash through it or jump towards Ryu.
You’re banking on the last option and that either means eating double uppercut or uppercut ultra/super.
The fireball game is all about fucking with people’s reaction and even pros use the concept of them reacting to the ball itself.
So many people are falling on my fireballs now lol. I’m sure people will get used to it though so this probably won last long.
There’s no way 1.04 Ryu is better than vanilla Ryu, who had a better cr. mk, trade ultra, and could not be jumped on from anywhere except close-up when he had full super.
I hate how parry uses the taunt button. I sometimes accidentally taunt and then the other player gets pissed off at me and thinks I’m some asshole.
Okay, I’m back to maining Ryu I think. The fireball buffs made him so much more fun than he was last time I tried him. =3
lp hadoken is really really good tbh, I got so many punishes on people who tried to focus dash through it. hp fireball being faster is also great.
Since you think its theory fighter, go to training mode and pick ryu vs ryu. Record the dummy to walk into you at start, crouch medium kick at point blank, recover, then jump back. At this point, have the dummy do a bunch of fakes into a fast or slow fireball. Change it to playback than restart. At this point all you have to do is block than immediately jump forward. It took me less than 10 minutes to get the timing down. After 15 I could jump the slow fireball and focus through to fast one. If you program the dummy to shoryuken immediately after the fireball, all you have to do is not attack and all but the ex shoryuken miss. If you program the dummy to use normals you can stuff it with jumping fierce punch or jumping light punch. If you try make the dummy walk forward and dp you can hurricane behind it.
As a ryu player, this is a situation you want to avoid. Whats fucked up is that this is actually because of how much slower and faster the two fireballs got. If you revert to 2012, you have to be farther away, but the sweet spot is still there. Worst of all, this is only ryu, with tatsu, Viper with burn kick bs, dive kickers with the ability to neutral jump dive on you and other air control bull shit just makes this situation worse. If you can’t understand that, you’ll just have to accept your losses.
I on the other hand am tired of you and will now notify a mod that you are trolling with theory fighter. I gave a credible example that can be recreated and while I will never post videos, recreate-able training mode exercises count as proof. Also, you have been arguing about non-related fireball subjects when the only thing I have been talking about is the slow fireball can be jumped putting you in a bad situation. Getting jumped in on at certain ranges is terrible and something the west coast taught us on the east coast. I’m passing on great fucking knowledge from the past and you’re acting like you know shit that you don’t know about. Fuck you, people like you are the reason why SRK loses so much talent and technology…
Fuck it edit
Let me give everyone who hasn’t seen it or who have forgotten about it, the ultradavid video on spacing. This video is on dhalsim, but players here should be able to translate the lessons for dhalsim over to ryu in order to get an understanding of what I am talking about when I say its bad to get your slow fireball jumped: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PTgQeSG1oA
Oh shit its spreading edit
The distances where you are saying the slow fireball is good is a completely different area, being much farther away than the one that is being discussed. When the opponent cannot hit you at all, the slow fireball can be a set up tool. The distance where the opponent can jump in and force you to guess on an AA or be in on you free is much closer. So yes you are right, it makes a good set up tool, but I’m saying that as a quasi offense/defense poke option, the fireball will get jumped and have all your momentum taken away.
final edit
I feel like the answer is match up reliant. I’m sure VRyu gets bodied by Ibuki and Seth vortex. On the other hand, URyu would love to have VRyu damage in the Dudley match up. Honda is probably the same 6-4 but in different styles of play.
So to frame trap I always use cr. jab walk forward slightly cr.mp. Is cr.jab walk forward cl s.hk the best thing to do now?
Can you explain why the medium fireball doesn’t work as well as the old slow fireball in this situation, and the usefulness of throwing fireballs in this range in general? The dhalsim video is nice, but you seem to be talking about a very specific distance so it would be nice to have a better understanding of it.
I don’t think anyone is trolling you.
walk forward will probably get bopped, you just want to use close round house as soon as crouch jab is finished. If you want to hit really late techers, you can do crouch short into stand round house. If you are getting poked out of that, crouch short into throw will beat out the late tech. If the opponent is reacting, you can use the second longest frame trap ryu has that covers the sixth of the seven techable frames is crouch short into close fierce. You cannot react to that.
The medium fireball was the answer. The slow fireball was the hard to notice fake. It made being in the position to OS the block/jump much tighter and harder.
The reason why you even want to do certain things is to force your opponent to play the way you want them to. So if I want my opponent to use a medium fireball as I close in on him because I don’t like the fast fireball, I’ll dance in that area and slightly closer to run the OS. Once I have the opponent using medium fireball like I want, I’ll press him. Stuff like this is how you see people read fireballs and ultra through them like in a ryu vs ryu match up. There’s lots of reasons why players do stuff, I don’t know why I’m being investigated so closely when all I said is that the slow fireball will get jumped more. Move on people, nothing else to see here.
TL;DR, I wanted my opponent to use the medium fireball. Now I’m free in that zone to work passed the medium fireball. Forcing them to do what I want helps me control the match.
Hence the term zoning, its not just what the zoner is doing, its also what zoning options the opponent takes away…
I like these buffs.
I am finding that i need to adjust to the new fireballs. This is what I am noticing.
Slow fb against passive players is great. You can throw it out full screen then dash in. If they jump over it you get a free srk if not you are pushing him into the corner. If they block you still are pushing them into the corner
Medium fireball I like to use it like the prevous old fb. Thats about 3/4 full screen.
Fast fb is great in the corner. Harder to react to in the corner making it better for keeping your opponent in the corner.
Just my thoughts
Yeah I think it’s people like you who act like spoilt brats who are the cause of SRK losing members, not other posters asking perfectly reasonable questions.
V. Ryu>>>>U. Ryu easily overall. Sure, U. Ryu might do better against certain characters/situations, however the advantages V. Ryu have are just simply far superior. He has the most damaging Fadc into Ultra which can drain close to half life, an escape aerial hurricane, the best c.mk incarnation, not to mention the majority of his normals/supers do greater damage puts him well ahead of U. Ryu. The only thing U. Ryu has now is the faster fireball and the obvious advantage of delayed wake up, and I guess Red Focus due to sweep, however the other weaker aspects and the loss of being able to easily land U1 is big.
The ShoryukenxxFadc can swing the match into your favor or flat out win the fight is too significant, and as I said, this is the Best U1 Version in the SF4 series. Even in matches where it “might” even slightly favor U. Ryu I would still pick V. Ryu over him easily.
This comparison in some ways reminds me a bit of Hyper Street Fighter 2 when people compared different Ryus to see who was the “best”. Someone like ST. Ryu may have the super, Shakunetsu-Hadouken and his short distance lk hurricane which can be used to make going over Sagat low tigers more lenient. However that isn’t enough to compensate for the advantage of CE/HF Ryu’s better start up & recovery Hadouken, fully invincible Shoryuken, invincible start up hurricane kick, and greater damage potential.
ST. Ryu might do better in certain fights however overall CE/HF. Ryu is the much stronger/better overall Ryu incarnation and I would never pick the newer incarnations to the older ones in either series.
im finding the changes to the fireball are definitely a step in the right direction, mostly the HP variant. It makes corner control alot harder for the opponent to deal with