USF4 Ken Improvement Thread (+EVO Result)

lilsicx66 · 2014-11-25T01:15:11.000Z

that corner pressure with ken was dope… chris’s ken is hella good but i wouldn’t rank him up there with momochi or micheal tan just yet, but he’s breaking that barrier for sure…

Tarek · 2014-11-25T10:57:58.000Z

eventhubs.com

First in-game look at Ultra Street Fighter 4's Wild costumes, patch including...

Combofiend has just uploaded a new blog entry over on Capcom Unity that details Ultra Street Fighter 4 ...

I understand why they gave Ken the eagle but honestly couldn’t they have designed it better? It just looks a bit blehh compared to the others.

Capcom also said there will be balance changes. I’m predicting Kens escape tatsu to be completely nerfed and hope they compensate by giving him little more hit stun on cr.mk other then that I really hope they leave him a lone.
I feel Ken is in the perfect position in USF4. Strong enough to be viable but not too strong for people to cry nerfs.

I’m really really hoping Capcom don’t mess up and ruin this beautiful character.

Shinebox · 2014-11-26T09:29:59.000Z

Tarek:

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/nov/24/first-game-look-ultra-street-fighter-4s-wild-costumes-patch-including-new-trials-omega-mode-and-more-drops-next-month/

I understand why they gave Ken the eagle but honestly couldn’t they have designed it better? It just looks a bit blehh compared to the others.

Capcom also said there will be balance changes. I’m predicting Kens escape tatsu to be completely nerfed and hope they compensate by giving him little more hit stun on cr.mk other then that I really hope they leave him a lone.
I feel Ken is in the perfect position in USF4. Strong enough to be viable but not too strong for people to cry nerfs.

I’m really really hoping Capcom don’t mess up and ruin this beautiful character.

If they nerf escape tatsu they are going to need to give him something that makes his opponent want to back off from him

Tarek · 2014-11-26T10:51:38.000Z

@Shinebox‌ so what do you suggest?

tali · 2014-11-26T11:27:19.000Z

Add fire to ex tatsu

beesuit · 2014-11-26T17:20:22.000Z

Replace Ex tatsu with U2.

Shinebox · 2014-11-27T01:13:09.000Z

Tarek:

@Shinebox‌ so what do you suggest?

His cr.MK from arcade release would be nice for starters. Either that or increase the damage on his cr.MK and HP SRK by 10

They can start by making his fs.LP 30 damage like E.Ryu, Ryu, Akuma and Oni.

Tarek · 2014-11-27T01:37:08.000Z

@Shinebox‌ that far st.mp into target combo is a very interesting idea definitely sounds good.

As for Kens arcade cr.mk as much as I would love for that to happen I remember combofiend saying the reason they nerfed it in the first place is because it was too spammable so I don’t see that happening.

70 dmg on cr.mk and 160 dmg on shoryuken is something I see happening.

With the addition of DWU I would like to see them return our lp shoryuken from super so we can have our brain dead safe jump again lol

Shinebox · 2014-11-27T01:55:37.000Z

Tarek:

@Shinebox‌ that far st.mp into target combo is a very interesting idea definitely sounds good.

As for Kens arcade cr.mk as much as I would love for that to happen I remember combofiend saying the reason they nerfed it in the first place is because it was too spammable so I don’t see that happening.

70 dmg on cr.mk and 160 dmg on shoryuken is something I see happening.

With the addition of DWU I would like to see them return our lp shoryuken from super so we can have our brain dead safe jump again lol

Well the cr.MK being 70 damage is something I would like to see Ryu, Ken and Akuma get… not E.Ryu or Oni (their damage is fine). Ryu because it would be stupid for Ken’s cr.MK > fireball to do more damage than Ryu’s as it is right now Ken’s fireball does 18 chip while Ryu’s still does 15

In terms of the 160 damage SRK I would like the damage distribution to be 904030 but they will probably do something stupid again and put the damage on the second hit 706030 this was 704030 in AE2012. Making it +4 on FADC dash forward would be amazing and help with damage as well. The first hit being 90 damage would make red focus more worthwhile… Also Akuma, Ryu and E.Ryu all do 160 damage on their HP DP and it’s MUCH better AA. I can’t see why Ken can’t get 10 more damage for a whopping 186 damage for his BnB :\

Honestly the only thing wrong with Ken is his damage. Sure his back dash is ass but there are a ton of characters with worse mobility.

iWinWeDate · 2014-11-27T02:30:13.000Z

Shinji- Imo Momochi>Chris>Michael Tan

Playerjun52 is a good ken too.

Tarek · 2014-11-27T03:05:45.000Z

@shinebox If they buffed the damage on his Hp shoryuken i definitely agree with you on the damage distribution. But knowing Capcom it will be something stupid.

If Capcom normalised Kens focus attack would that make it +4 after srk fadc? or would they have to increase hitstun.

For the cr.mk tho i honestly prefer more hit stun over damage so cr.mk xx Ex tatsu hits at max distance. I’ve lost so many times successfully landing kens cr.mk during footsies only to have ex tatsu whiff and get punished.

So to summarise i would like the damage to come from his shoryuken and cr.mk to be more reliable in footsies.

Another thing i would like to see but it’s honestly not necessary is to make his target combo useful by either making it safe on block or making Kens hadoken say -5 on block. Because by design isn’t it supposed to be a move you can hit confirm and react accordingly?
At the moment if the opponent blocks they can punish you no matter what you do unless you fadc.

Edit: Another interesting idea i thought for the target combo is that they can make the first hit cl.mp -2 down from -7 on block. So that way it will be first hit -2 second hit -9 and hadoken -7.

Shinebox · 2014-11-27T03:18:00.000Z

Tarek:

@shinebox If they buffed the damage on his Hp shoryuken i definitely agree with you on the damage distribution. But knowing Capcom it will be something stupid.

If Capcom normalised Kens focus attack would that make it +4 after srk fadc? or would they have to increase hitstun.

For the cr.mk tho i honestly prefer more hit stun over damage so cr.mk xx Ex tatsu hits at max distance. I’ve lost so many times successfully landing kens cr.mk during footsies only to have ex tatsu whiff and get punished.

So to summarise i would like the damage to come from his shoryuken and cr.mk to be more reliable in footsies.

Another thing i would like to see but it’s honestly not necessary is to make his target combo useful by either making it safe on block or making Kens hadoken say -5 on block. Because by design isn’t it supposed to be a move you can hit confirm and react accordingly?
At the moment if the opponent blocks they can punish you no matter what you do unless you fadc.

Ken’s focus attackstarts up 10+12 everyone else except for a few characters are 10+11… Ken, Sagat and I forgot who the other characters Focus attacks all start up 10+12 BUT… their focus attack does 10 more damage…

In order to make HP SRK FADC +4 they need to either decrease his forward dash by 1 frame or increase the hitstun by one frame on the first hit of his HP SRK.

There is no way in hell the first one will happen, but if they want a faster flashier Ken I wouldn’t argue with a 17f forward dash.

and I agree his target combo needs to be reworked so players actually use it

Tarek · 2014-11-27T03:41:12.000Z

@shinebox Definitely all good ideas and if Capcom just picked a few of what we suggested Ken will be in a good position.
But i don’t know why i predict Capcom doing something stupid like removing escape tatsu, no more 2 hit shoryu fadc and here you guys go have a little damage buff on shoryuken 706030 lol

Lets just wait and see…

tali · 2014-11-27T10:02:09.000Z

How about a better hit box on cr.hp and one more frame advantage on cr.mp. cr.hp will link from a jab more consistently and you now can cr.mp > cr.hp for damage

Cr.mp will be +2 on block for better frame traps and cr.mp into cr.mk will be 2 frames instead of a 1 frame link

Tarek · 2014-11-27T11:04:58.000Z

@tali I definitely would be happy with that however that will just mean Ken is becoming more similar to Ryu and I would rather they play differently as much as possible.

So personally I would like Ken to have a different style for getting his damage such as what Shinebox suggested with the shoryuken.

A more interesting idea for me would be to increase Kens hitbox on cr.hp as you suggested and reduce pushback on hit for Kens cl.mk so that cr.hp can be comboed after cl.mk on all characters.
And for a slight nerf they can make cl.mk +6 on hit instead of +7.

lilsicx66 · 2014-11-27T12:07:43.000Z

Close mk needs to stay plus 7. So we can link sweep and u2… and we would lose ch c.mkxx u1

Shinebox · 2014-11-27T13:43:21.000Z

I modded the game and made CS.HK a command normal B+HK changed the start up to 7f

Change the recovery from 21f to 28f so its not a viable poke

Frame data was

7/3/33 -16 on block -10 on hit

I also
Increased the hurtbox and reduced the damage to 90

This is a bit strong but if nothing else at all was given to Ken this would solve his damage problem completely, he would also have a true blockstring with B+HK > Fireball

Tarek · 2014-11-27T14:48:50.000Z

@lilsicx66‌ think about it tho why do you need to sweep if you can do cr.hp xx shoryu/ex tatsu everytime? And you can still land U2 on counter hit.
I think its a good trade off

lilsicx66 · 2014-11-27T14:52:23.000Z

To each his own. Thats the beauty of fighters

Shinebox · 2014-11-27T14:55:10.000Z

Tarek:

@lilsicx66‌ think about it tho why do you need to sweep if you can do cr.hp xx shoryu/ex tatsu everytime? And you can still land U2 on counter hit.
I think its a good trade off

The only way I would accept them nerfing the hitstun to +6 on cs.MK is if they change the start up to 7f or 5f and increase the hit detection.

Outside of that, to increase it to +6 to buff the range on Ken’s cr.HP wont do much, players will use cr.LP > cr.HP since the range on cr.HP is now better and can be combo’d into