5282

I tried some combos in Kingblacktooth’s USF4 mod just to compare damage values with Ultra 1. I had to do some math to come up with the fake ultra numbers because he has it at 280 when it should do 330 damage. Here are some results

cr. LK, cr. LP, HP SRK, EX red focus, Ultra 1 = 366
cr. LK, cr. LP, HP SRK, FADC, Ultra 1 =344

For a little more damage you can replace HP SRK with cr. HP for 390. It’s spacing specific and a 1f link as you guys all know. Adding a cr. HP to the 2nd combo does 376 damage.

I don’t know how much you guys like Ken’s target combo, but that could be a useful combination with EX red focus. TC, EX red focus, Ultra 1 does 447 damage. It doesn’t have much range and is unsafe on block, but if you combine it with fireball cancels it can be used safely at least to fish for EX red focus when you’re close to your opponent although I figure you guys would rather stick with the typical Ken block strings. His best punish with EX red focus is just from a regular cr. HP(480) since the first hit of HK tatsu and HP SRK doesn’t do that much damage if you cancel from them. So i guess use that only if you know you can’t punish with raw ultra. I couldn’t think of any other ways to utilize EX red focus so that’s all I got.

5283

I really dont understand why they’re nerfing Ken’s Ex air tatsu. It’s a a very good tool but not overpowered. I see his Ex air tatsu like a worse dive kick with better range. It gives you a good advantage on hit and on block but if you know the match up you wont be surprised by it. The Ex air tatsu is really strong when it comes to casual matches. People that dont play that much, doesnt have good reactions and defense have trouble dealing with it. But I dont see top players eating Ex air tatsu. Even top Ken players dont use Ex air tatsu that much. Unless they’re trying to get out of the corner with kara ex air tatsu.

This is another unnecessary nerf that make Ken’s offense even worse.

5284

Well, the overabundance of buffs in the alpha stage lead to allot of salt which of course triggered some nerfs. Capcom could take some of those buffs away, like the sweep and the fireball buff and call it a day but that would be an indirect admission that those buffs were not necessary and took Ken in the wrong direction (the generic shoto one). So now, in order to “balance” the character they make him even more generic by removing one of his unique tools.

It’s not just Ken either. They also gave E.Ryu a combo into sweep, Oni an fadc able srk, made srk fadc the same across the board. I get that it’s easier to balance the game this way but if they kill variety in the process there is no point in having a big cast.

As for Ken, without his strong oki, his low damage output along with his dangerous/unsafe gameplay will keep him in mid-high, sweep or no sweep. What Ken needed the most to keep him competitive in a footsies/ neutral oriented game (besides a higher movement speed) is better bnbs that do more damage. Since he can’t keep the pressure up once he is in like Oni or E.Ryu, he should hit harder than he currently does. But instead of new links they gave him a fireball buff, the laziest of changes they could have come up.

5285

Wait… no. They are only nerfing his tatsu on the way up so he can’t escape with it. He can still kara it. If you do it on the way up it will come out like Ryu’s air EX tatsu

Does Red Focus count as 1 hit in Kingblacktoof’s mod? Because the scaling on it is for 1 hit not two like normal focus attacks

It’s simple we don’t need it. We can use EX SRK FADC instead. If we get a counterhit we get full animation. If we dont the fake ultra does 60 more damage for a total of 374

This change was so everyone in the cast could essentially combo into their Ultra reliably/safely using 3 bars

5286

I sometimes kara my ex tatsu close to the peak of the jump in order to punish spammers, it’s still on the way up and they screwed it up. They also screwed the air ex tatsu juggle after a srk fadc or trade since the tatsu has to be performed on the way up to connect. Even if you consider those cases gimmicks, they were Ken’s specific gimmicks and some of the reasons i enjoy using him. I will just say that this makes me mad and leave it at that.

5287

You can do it at the same break point as Ryu would when he uses his HK Air Tatsu to punish opponents throwing fireballs. I’m not sure why you would anyone would do it on the way up.

This is something Sakura and Ken should have never kept considering they wanted to remove it. It’s a system change

5288

Have you tested it yourself? As long as escape is the only thing they took away i am completely fine with it. Btw Sakura can still use it to escape corners :p.

5289

Wow. You’re right about the damage on the U1 combos. I had completely forgotten about the extra scaling that happens…

Using a fadc counts as 2 moves, landing the ex focus move counts as an additional 2 moves and then comboing into Ultra counts as another 2. Ridiculous scaling meaning that even with only 2 light attacks before linking into fierce means that by the time you get to U1 after an ex red focus, it’s only going to be doing less than 50%.

Definitely not worth the meter.

I have been playing a lot the last few days and I’ve been playing as if I’m already playing ultra and I have to say that if the changes stay as they are, having Ken’s fierce DP float on counterhit is actually a nuisance!!

Apart from me realising that I am super bad at this game in general, I definitely think that Ken needs something else to replace the CH route to U1. Whether that be allowing him to retain his focus cancel on 2nd hit even on block or something else, I don’t know, but it’s a big tool gone…

Peace,

G.

5290

This is exactly what i have been saying. This nerf is massive for Kens game plan they really need to compensate some other way.

Personally if they just gave his fierce shoryuken 1 more frame of invincibility or just fixed the hitbox so it doesn’t get outright beaten i would be satisfied.

5291

They did compensate they increased the damage on HP SRK FADC to fake Ultra by Over 15%

When he uses W ultra FADC to fake Ultra is about 8-10% less. That’s a lot better than what most characters got

5292

That’s fair enough but why would anyone use W ultra for Ken. I honestly can’t think of a single match up where W ultra is a ‘must’ for Ken. Ultra 2 doesn’t have the greatest damage and is very easy to land. So i definitely wouldn’t want to make the damage less on ultra 2.
The reason why i liked ultra 1 so much in ae2012 is because i like fishing for CH shoryuken to land full ultra 1 or just to catch crouch techs with it. But since they pretty much took that away from us or to be more accurate made it much harder to hit confirm into i don’t see the point of selecting ultra 1 over ultra 2. Personally i don’t like using ultra 1 in combos starting with cr lk because of damage scaling.

So why do i personally believe Kens ultra 2 will be superior in USF4? Because since were not going to be using his fierce shoryuken as much for frametraps or catching couch techs, were going to be using the buffed cl mk and far st mp alot more and if you get a counter hit all you have to do is ultra 2 which had its range extended making this alot easier to connect and the best part is you don’t even have to burn meter. Heck you can even catch them with a crouch medium kick hadoken fadc ultra 2 which will be easier to land as well because of the extended range on ultra 2 and you can still hit confirm this. If they block you can use the frametrap/kara throw mix up or if it hits ultra 2.
Plus its alot easier to connect ultra 2 on a jump in HP/HK/Ex air tatsu and lets not forget how much better its going to be for punishing fire balls. I don’t know about you but i see amazing potential with ultra 2 and definitely wouldn’t reduce the damage on it for an ultra 1 that can only be safely hit confirmed from a cr lk/cr lp and does 8-10% less dmg or losing all those options with ultra 2 for the slight extra dmg on ultra 1 when used in a combo.

Edit: One more thing i forgot to mention was that the hadoken buff also helps ultra 2. The extra 10 dmg will increase the overall damage combo for cr mk hadoken fadc ultra 2.

Peace

5293

Ultra 2 has a 7 frame start up. You can connect it to far standing mp and close standing mk even when they are regular hits (1 frame link). You only need the counter for Ultra 1 which has a longer start up.

5294

Exactly right however some people struggle with 1 frame links so counter hit makes landing ultra 2 sooo much easier. Add the extended range buff on ultra 2 and now you have an amazing set up.

5295

At this point I would like for them to just remove FADC on block from Ken’s HP SRK and do the following

Increase damage to 160 (805030)
Frames 1-5 full body invincibility

They seriously do need to do something about his fireball frame count though… at least make it similar to Akuma’s. He wont be able to zone a character like Ryu but at least he will effectively destroy any character that jumps in on him.

5296

+7 to ultra 2 is not even a 1 frame link, u2 has the same input buffer leniency as all the other special moves. U2 was always easily linked into from jabs but the damage scaling is bad so people would usually save it.
The extended range will mean now U2 connect with far mp which is now frame trap city… no one will use u1 again.
The thing about srk nerf is only that its not Ken, they made a stylistic mistake (which is much worse than a balance one imo)… Ken should be able to spray his fire all over the place and 1 hit is not enough to spray fire…need two hits to spray more fire before canceling. More fire is also the only reason to u1 over u2. Fist fire is better than leg fire.

5297

“fist fire is better than leg fire” lol

on topic: I was already using u2 all the time due to frame traps and, more important, STYLISH combos :smiley: so, now more than ever, u2 all the way.

5298

Can ryu combo ultra 2 off of the second hit of ex dp into ultra 2? I couldn’t really tell from any footage or from the change logs.

I wouldn’t mind being able to combo ultra after ex dp, even if I only got to fadc of the first hit. Ryu’s first hit of ex dp does 80 damage just like Ken does.

However I don’t want to get too greedy, I still have that bitter taste from when I lost sweep in ae 2012.

5299

I realize I’m a little late, but better late than never I guess. It counts as 2 hits just like regular focus. As for red focus, I remember hearing that that their wouldn’t be any extra scaling either. But is that really true? If yes can you provide a link because I just want to see it for myself.

5300

I was looking at some frame data. If sweep in ultra is 7 frames we should be able to link far.mp to sweep. Far.mp. is +7 on hit. Can someone try that with the mod?

Also if U2 has improve movement range on startup we should be able link it from far.mp

5301

In the first version of ae where he had the 7 frame sweep he could do far.mp sweep. You can try it in training mode by turning counter hit on and replicate it. I’m also interested in whether he can do Far.mp into ultra 2 though.