I’m going to hate my self for this if it is fixed but.
Against poison, any close normal will come out farther against her then what normally should be considered “close range”
This allows for some combos to work well for some chars I’m assuming. But from what I’ve noticed it just makes most people whiff combos where the far version was expected and the close comes out and either whiffs or doesn’t combo in general.
I’ve noticed Ken getting close light punch where far light punch should come out resulting in a whiff of close light punch and the combo dropped.
Haven’t been able to replicate this bug, against Rose flame kick fadc mk chicken wing, the first hit of the chicken wing and then fei went through her body. This was midscreen.
Well, then we can adress the fact that EX FBA whiffs on a handful of crouching characters. (This is a huge negative impact on Claw’s viability)
crMK crLP whiffs on Abel, Sakura and DeeJay.
stLK crLP whiffs on Abel and Boxer.
And so on. But if got what the OP meant that is not what this post is about.
If I got it wrong… then this list will be absolutely gigantic.
If poison does a cr.hp xx Ex Fireball where the crouching hp is a step back from point blank range, one layer of ex fireball hits and the other passes through
Are there other characters this problem comes up against with Poison? Like Chun/Elena/Sakura/Blanka ect?
No priorities.
With the EX FBA is it ALWAYS whiff or only from certain positions or when canceled from crMP? Which characters? I could test it myself but I figured you might know already and save me some time
I’ve noticed her pushbox seemed odd during reeling animations. I did mention her reeling animations needed work. I’ll add in that there are pushbox issues.
Hatzlan mentioned the CH RCF issues. I’ll look into the cause and add it to the list.
i was in the lab trying to take advantage of the added frame advantage on crouching characters in comparison to standing to find some cool specific combos.
when i was messing around in the lab i had tested it on E.ryu, Akuma, Cody, dudley and rose and noticed 1 layer whiffed on rose. cody came close to having it whiff on him but the second layer does hit giving the most frame advantage on him (+10 atleast, i linked ultra, which is crazy because Ex fireball is +4 normally)
ill go try those characters right now, any other ones?
Just try everyone you have time to do so. Check both mid screen and corner because sometimes that can change things due to pushback (example: Rose’s super only gets 1hit on Sakura in the corner but mid screen she gets all BUT 1 hit). If the issue comes up with I’d say more than like 7-8 characters it’s worth putting up on the list. I just pulled that number out of my butt though. I just don’t think an instance of 1 or 2 specific combos not working on less than 10% of the cast is really an issue because it’s just sort of par for the course in how SF4 works due to reeling animations sucking. Especially if said combo is one that can easily be replaced with a different combo for equal effect.
Are there any other normals that when buffered to EX FB whiff parts of the FB on crouching?
I know Cody can whiff his EX Badstone point blank against a couple of characters, or only get 1 hit on crouching vs like 3 or 4 (Rose, Chun, Sakura and I think Gen IIRC.) and if he does sHP (blocked) - EX Badstone against Elena the EX BS whiffs entirely. However these are all pretty situational. I imagine it’s similar for Poison as her fireball start position looks to be pretty far forward from her body.
yea poisons ex FB comes out past here whip, it comes out far, in conjunction with it hitting on the second or third frame of hitstun after cr.hp, and the first and second hits landing a frame or two after each other is how she gets soo much frame advantage on it on crouchers from what i can tell.
im going to test everyone, ill post back in a few mins.
after yang command grabs hugo he always gets far normals
funny story. i stun hugo, but i know lvl 3 focus misses him under unknown conditions. i do raw ultra 2 instead. yang flies into the air while hugo shakes out of the dizzy
Poison:
anywhere on screen, point blank on crouching rose cr.hp xx ex fireball only hits once, and only at max range of cr.hp does it get both hits.
anywhere on screen, point blank and mid range on crouching chun cr.hp xx ex fb whiffs entirely, and at max range you get one hit.
tested everyone and only happens on these two.
on chun her reeling animation puts her upper body soo low combined with how fast and how far ex fireball come out shows why it whiffs.
it may only be 2 chars out of 40 something, but its pretty bad on chun and quite annoying on rose.
Well. It happens mostly because of the interaction between the poor hitbox of EX FBA and the reeling animation of those crouching characters hurtboxes. So, here it goes:
Even from pointblank crMK crMP xx EX FBA it never works against crouching Rose or Elena.
Even from pointblank crMK crLP crMP xx EX FBA in the corner it whiffs on crouching Ryu, Ken, E. Ryu, Ibuki, Honda.
There are much more examples that I could give it to you. Its really a combination of distance + character + spot on the stage (corner or midscreen).
But these are simple:
crMK crLP whiffs on standing Abel, Sakura and DeeJay everytime.
stLK crLP whiffs on standing Abel and Boxer everytime.
I only have video showing it on Abel. But it’s enough so you can see what I am talking about.
Ok then, after some lab time to be more precise: This is not true. clMPxxmRCF: After a clMP the Medium Rolling Crystal Flash connects on everybody EXCEPT: Viper, Juri, Decapre.
Other character specific hitbox issues (and still imho not necessarily bugs):
crMK,crMP: crMP whiffs on a crouching Zangief
crMK,crLP: crLp whiffs on Abel Dee Jay Sakura
jHP,crHP: crHP whiffs on Ryu Ken E. Honda Blanka Vega M. Bison Akuma Abel El Fuerte Fei Long T. Hawk Adon Gen Guy Ibuki Yun Yang Evil Ryu Elena Poison Decapre
jHP/jHK,crHK: crHK whiffs and Claw gets teleported behind the opponent on Ryu Ken Sagat M. Bison Gouken El Fuerte Adon Dan Sakura Ibuki Rolento Decapre
sLK,crLP: crLP whiffs on Abel and Balrog, and also is very hard to hit on Seth and Rolento (either clLK comes out or crLP whiffs on these two).
crMK,crMPxxEX-FBA: EX-FBA whiffs if opponent was crouching and you did not started the combo point blank on Ryu Ken Chun Li C. Viper Cammy Adon Rose Dan Dudley Yun Yang Evil Ryu Elena
Furthermore, yesterday during a match my crMk whiffed on a focus attacking Ryu, after a MP jump-in. Couldn’t reproduce it yet so I will upload the video instead.
Ok the stuff with crLP whiffing seems a bit like one of those things that you just will have to deal with. The reason isn’t the reeling animation moving the body part out of the way (at least on abel) but rather the fact hurtboxes are based on model + animation during any blockstun or hitstun so that gap between Abel’s arms and knees has no hurtbox. Sort of the reverse of the issue that allows so many combos on abel (his arms stick out a bunch during his hurt animations.)
The EX FBA stuff you mentioned shows a recurring theme with specific crouching characters. I think at this point it might be good to add Rose and Ibuki to the list of characters whose crouching reeling animations cause problems and need to be looked at. It’s something that affects a number of characters BnBs. Ryu/Ken/E Ryu I’m not sure yet if that threshhold has been reached, they are generally considered the baseline for what is acceptable due to being shotos.
TBH 100% honest I’d like if they adjusted EVERYONES hurtboxes and just stopped with the dumb procedural generated hurtboxes (something I intend to do in an ultra SF4 mod). However I doubt that will occur. But if there are enough instances of key BnBs whiffing on specific characters I think it’s worth bringing up. If it’s just an incidental combo that isn’t a key combo (like Vega far LK - crLP) I don’t think it’s enough to bring up. This is just me though. If people want me to add everything I will.
Thank you everyone for your contributions! I’ll try to add everything as I get to it. I double check the entire thread every now and then to make sure I have everything. I’m trying to rewrite peoples descriptions into a more consistent wording (for the most part).
