put tali on ignore, it helped me out
It’s not intended design. No other fireball has a blind spot like that because Capcom always puts a large hitbox that extends backwards to prevent it. That is why Sagat’s fireball doesn’t pass through the opponent when thrown point blank even though he extends his arm so far forward and the fireball comes out of his hands. It’s a simple fix of extending the initial hitbox on first 2F active downward. It has nothing to do with changing the position the fireball comes out.
End of discussion.
It would have longer before it hits and be less advantageous on block. Just like anything else that you increase the recovery and startup lol. 
I wasn’t asking you to explain the principle, I was asking for actual frame data difference if you have access to it. It would be great to compile that frame data.
Estimate 1F slower startup 5F slower recovery. Try experimenting in training mode.
since you don’t have ultra, let me help you out here with some visuals.
you brought up sagats fireballs as a comparison of a fireballs that extends forward. and that its just a hitbox issue not extending back enough.
heres sagats ex fireball. (i use high tiger shot to help compare because it whiffs crouchers)
http://i.imgur.com/ievhvok.jpg
and heres poison’s
http://i.imgur.com/Es3ExED.jpg
if we compare the pictures, first off, sagat is starting the fireball pretty much on the red line, with ryu in the first box from the red line.
poisons starting from behind the red line, one box behind, with ryu on the last box before the red line. the distance is about one box difference between the two in starting positions.
sagats fireball on its first frame is about slightly past the fourth black line on the back wall past the red center line.
http://i.imgur.com/XFqVNmE.png
here is his hitbox info on his ex high tighter shot at about the same position in my picture, to get an idea of his hitbox.
poisons (remember, she is also starting further back from where sagat is) fireball is lined up with the Fifth black line past the red center line.
the distance from where her ex fireball starts, is no where comparable to anyone elses.
so here is my crude paint shop skills of what seems to be the hitbox info.
http://i.imgur.com/HOy9avA.png
this is whats most likely happening
and if this is what you want to suggest they do for the first couple of frames, “to make it just like everyone else’s projectile” (because if you analyse her projectile repertoire, it totally isn’t unique /Sarcasm)
http://i.imgur.com/Qvykxbr.png
or like the irrational suggestion i suggested before as a way to “rationalize” with kitl and links, push the fireball back, decrease the start up time, so that the fireabll still reaches its current position on frame 9 so it doesn’t effect its current use.
then thats fine by me capcom. go right ahead and buff this extremeley situational impractical “bug” that they didn’t intend to when they created her unique move which is an obvious design flaw if you can comprehend the design.
also to quote you from your OP
"DON’T INCLUDE VERY SPECIFIC COMBOS FOR 1 CHARACTER WHIFFING ON MULTIPLE CHARACTERS"
now we can /discussion
It’s not a combo if it just whiffs in neutral.
Also, if you knew just how wrong you are on the hitboxes you’d feel very silly. The hitbox is actually quite wide on the initial 3F of the move. The problem is it isn’t TALL.
First 3F the hitbox is 0.525 wide 0.25 tall.
Remaining frames it is 0.025x0.25
This applies to all strengths of the attack.
For comparison Sagat’s high tiger shot:
First 2F active it is 0.5wide 0.3 tall
Remaining active frames it is 0.05wide 0.3tall
Sagat’s low tiger shot
First 2F is 0.45wide 0.2tall
remaining active frames it is 0.05wide 0.2 tall.
Anyways I’m done with Poison’s file now. Onto Rolento.
Oh,and Eternal, ‘‘soon’’ I’ll release a Elena vid,I think I’ll leave it here,as it will feature tonds of glitches,some of them new
I knew the first thing you would do is go to the files and bring up the exact hitbox info in numbers. Very predictable, that’s why when I used my epic paint shop skills, I said “crude” and what it seems like. Again tho why would I feel silly if my point still stands, it’s the Placement of where the fire ball spawns that is creating a dead zone. Sagat’s fireball doesn’t spawn one foot in front of him does it? Do you have access to those numbers or are you omitting info? Because his fireball clearly starts right in front of his hurt box like in the picture.
So tell me again the 2 suggestions that I put forth, one was yours, adding or increasing the hitbox about twice the size of it currently to be right in front of poisons hurt box, eliminating any “deadzone” while also giving her the biggest and fastest fireball.
Or by pulling back the spawning location of the fireball, and decreasing the start up time (which is already 9 frames) so that the fireball will reach its current spawn point on frame 9.
Tell me did you debunk those suggestions with your “numbers” and I should feel silly or did you just throw out a red herring?
Because I actually think capcom was aware of the deadzone created by the design of the move starting out so far, but didn’t care because it only whiffs on a select few characters at point blank range on them crouching mid screen. We know they are lazy, you think that was justification for them, an impractical situation should be time wasted on when it was 2 guys working on the whole thing. If poison moves one small square on that dam floor, the fireball catches the edge of ryus hurtbox. But again this situation would never happen in a match. But her canceling into it on a crouching chun or rose from crouching hp and it whiffing on hit sure will
@tali shut up
You have absolutely no idea about how the game engine handles hitboxes/hurtboxes/objects but are acting arrogantly as though you’re an expert. Actually YES Sagat’s fireball is spawned about a foot in front of him. To be specific it is spawned from his right hand model bone. The hitbox is actually moved back quite a bit from the spawn location during the first 2 active frames. (X position = -0.35 Y position -0.1) the hitbox is moved back towards sagat dramatically as well as slightly down.
You can’t actually pull the location of the fireball back from where it spawns normally other than change what part of the body it’s spawned from. All you can do is change how it moves AFTER it’s spawned as well as change the hitbox on it. (The hitbox is attached to the graphical effect but it doesn’t have to be anywhere near matching where the fireball is. You could have Juri’s low fireball be in the same spot but the hitbox is moved up high so that it anti airs but whiffs on crouching.)
Anyways, this is the last I’ll say on the subject. I’ve got better things to do like finish this project. If I haven’t convinced you that you’re mistaken by now then I wont be able to do so even with an hour long seminar.
So Elena, Poison, Decapre and Rolento’s floating hurtboxes seem off
Ken: HP Shoryuken > FADC > Shinryuken does 324 damage on these characters, only 8 hits connect where the rest of the cast gets hit by 9 for 360 damage. 324 is less damage than the 326 this did in AE2012
Does not seem intentional
you are contradicting yourself so much, its very entertaining.
“Actually YES Sagat’s fireball is spawned about a foot in front of him.”
http://i.imgur.com/bpOpMxw.png
Lets analyze this picture shall we? yes actually, this isn’t a new picture.
so ill add visuals here.
http://i.imgur.com/rDTZaoA.png
see the area marked in blue? thats the spawned tiger shot graphic. The added flare infront of the blue area is pure graphics that dissapate in a few frames later. see the green outline? thats sagats right hand. see how the fireball is being spawned directly out of his hand? tell me please, how can something be “about a foot infront of you” if it is attached to your hand?
“To be specific it is spawned from his right hand model bone.”
oh wait, so you do understand that it is being spawned from one of his limbs, then…how is it spawned a foot infront of sagat, if it is apart of him, there fore not infront of him?
" The hitbox is actually moved back quite a bit from the spawn location during the first 2 active frames. (X position = -0.35 Y position -0.1) the hitbox is moved back towards sagat dramatically as well as slightly down."
Yes, this is easily seen by the orange box which is representing the fireballs hitbox. it is extremely wide for the first few frames, to the point where it is actually apart of sagats face,shoulders, and all of his arm.
first things first, lets define “fireball” and all of its parts, and please correct me where im wrong.
Fireball
1)Spawns in conjunction with the characters limb
2)Has a hitbox
3)Has a graphical effect
4)Has a trajectory
**(1)**Dhalsim spawns his fireball with his head, Juri with her feet, Sagat with his hands, etc
"…spawns normally other than change what part of the body it’s spawned from."
**(2)**Size can be adjusted, The hitbox doesn’t have to be in symmetry with the graphical effect.
“as well as change the hitbox on it. (The hitbox is attached to the graphical effect but it doesn’t have to be anywhere near matching where the fireball is.”
**(3)**The visual effect, hitboxes aren’t actually visible in game (barring any “hacking”)
**(4)**The distance of the hitbox, how fast it moves, how far, the angle, etc etc
"All you can do is change how it moves AFTER it’s spawned"
okay so, you are either contradicting your self again, or i am missing some information.
“You can’t actually pull the location of the fireball back from where it spawns”
so what are you exactly referring to that cannot have it’s location adjusted? the graphical effect? the hitbox? because it seems like you are saying everything about the “fireball” CAN be adjusted, but not the “fireball”…
so back to the original topic on hand
http://i.imgur.com/Es3ExED.jpg
see where the graphical effect is being spawned? infront of poison’s body and not physically attached to a limb? tell us then “expert”, what limb is this “fireball” being spawned from, and how did capcom adjust the “unadjustable” spawn location to be FAR outside of said limb and not attached to it?
it doesn’t take an “expert” to put two and two together. I don’t need to meddle with files to understand a simple concept by capcom. Playing the game makes it very easy to comprehend the situation at hand.
the fireball’s hitbox and graphical effect become active on the 9th frame of her EX Aelous Edge. There is a significant distance between the hitbox of the fireball, and the hurtbox of poison because of how far out the move starts. The benefit to this design? Her fireball gains ground much faster in the fireball war because of its fast start up time, speed of travel, and hitbox spawn location. this allows her to blow through regular fireballs thrown against her, and catch the opponent in recovery with the second layer. It allows her to poke/whiff punish in footsies with the fireball as the fireballs hitbox is used as a sheild infront of poisons hurtbox, starts up very fast, and because of how far it starts infront of poison’s hurtbox its effectiveness is much increased in comparison to say her far standing Hard punch, one of her long ranged pokes, which also brings her hurtbox forward and doesn’t shield it. This sheilding effect is also prevalent in using it as an anti air against an opponents jump in attack which may have traded had poison used a normal. The free juggle state caused by the anti air also allows her to get good follow up damage, for example it allows her to link into Ultra 1. Because Ex fireball also doesn’t raise the juggle counter, you can link say 3 more ex fireballs on your opponent, and still be able to link an ultra potentially. The draw back to the design? there is a deadzone space created in between the hitbox of the fireball and the hurtbox of poison, causing some characters to be able to space them selves very tightly so that the fireballs hit box doesn’t collide with their hurtbox.
so hey, if they want to expand the hitbox on start up to be vastly bigger so that it doesn’t have a dead zone, thats fine by me, lets make it it the best fireball ever. lets make it not dessipate either like lp fireball from poison, and ryu, ken, sagat etc because thats obviously a bug too and not a intended design.
tali´s gdlk
I am so confused right now… I just want to know if her ex fireball at close range is a bug or not so we can all move on and find other issues in the game.
aaaaaaaaaaand ignore. Said I was done discussing it.
One “fun” fact about Claw picking up his mask with down+PP is that he can crouch tech with crMP for free while he is above the mask. He will never get caught in a frame trap while above it, nor will take the throw since he will tech it. It obviously only works once since he will eventually pick the mask, but he saves himself a ton of life by not getting a counter hit combo.
Eternal is literally looking at the game files and tali still tells him he’s wrong, lol. Please stop shitting up this thread, Eternal and others are doing great work with this project that I and many others appreciate, and you’re just in here nitpicking about semantics that literally nobody cares about, and you’re even wrong about them. The fireball is too short, not too skinny, and Eternal can put it in his list if he feels like it. End of discussion.
Anyway, what exactly does the “no physics” flag do? It’s mentioned a couple times in the OP.
Also, somebody in the Honda board noticed that his MP, HP, and EX Oicho throws now do more pushback than they did in AE2012; he can no longer do close normals after them. LP Oicho is unchanged. I just tested and confirmed this myself.
For Elena, her reverse DP shortcut does not exist.
Looks like they changed the push invincibility. I didn’t know it would change anything. Not a bug but I’ll list it in the unlisted changes thread.
Hopefully I’m not talking out of my ass for this one, but I believe the physics flag makes a character’s move without requiring you to actualy move outside if initiating the attack itself. So divekicks, elbow drops and even certain character moves like guile’s F+mk/B+mk should have an entry in the physics flag.
Example Elena’s HK used to move her forward in SFxT, so it probably had an entry, but in Ultra they’ve left the physics flag empty it doesn’t move in any direction. The same could probably be true for her st.mk, at least that’s my crude understanding of it.
…but I’m probably wrong and Eternal probably has a way better explanation. 