Tomass: The key point is standardization – whether it’s joysticks or consoles or whatever. Not everyone necesarily has access to a standard (arcade in this case)… but the important thing is that a standard DOES EXISTS.

Organizers can easily say that they are planning to have cabinets with 360’s in them for all games. People will know what to expect when they come. Standard.

On the otherhand, bring your own joystick = joypads, 360’s, great big joysticks, itsy-bitsy joysticks, or worse case scenerio, no joystick at all. Sure, most everyone will be using what they want, which is fine… but the MAIN PROBLEM in this particular scenerio is that those without joysticks are in a heap of trouble. Honestly, they shouldn’t even consider going.

Instead of variables in skill AND variables in equipment… why not cut out the variables in equipment??

Arcades ARE the standard and when a game comes out for tourneys that has/does not come out in arcades, then THAT’S WHEN you use the console. Until then, stick with the real mccoy.

The rest of the rebuttals are exactly in agreement with what I said earlier… “Evolution” to the true sense of the word.

If EVO2k4 was like that, then they might as well say the hell with a tournament and just invite all of the top players to cali to play in an elitist tournament. I don’t think people will fly out to a tournament they can only watch the top player play. We are a lazy nation. We’ll just wait and buy the DVD if EVO was like that.

Button shouldering is not allowed at EVO2k4. That means you can’t set up a RC button or any bs way to cheat.

That’s a good point, but this tournament isn’t a business. The cannons lose mad loot for throwing a tournament every year that they “DON’T HAVE TO THROW”.

IMO you have great points to support your opinions on the changes to evo2k4, but the main point IMO is that they (the cannons/srk staff) don’t have to throw evo2k4 if they didn’t want too. Most people throw tournaments because they want to keep the scene alive and for the love of playing. If the cannons looked and managed EVO as a business I think there wouldn’t have been a EVO2k3. I heard over $5,000-$10,000 worth of shit got stolen from the UCLA campus at the 1st EVO (when they changed the name from B). Organizing tournaments are a thankless job. I have lost alot of money running the (Final Round) tournament down in the south and if it was all about money I would have stop 2 years ago. They are damned if you do and your damned if you don’t. IMO EVO’s aren’t your normal tournaments. It has changed from just being a cali tournament, to being “THE MAJOR” for the USA, and now it’s an international tournament. IMO it is an event. Just as much as it’s an major tournament people come from all around the world to compete in evo.

IMO the problem is people really don’t understand the true reason we have tournaments. It’s not to see who is the best in whateva game you love to play. The true reason to have tournaments is to BRING THE FIGHTING GAME COMMUNITY TOGETHER, PERIOD. The tournaments are a means to get people that like to play the same shit together under one roof to play the games they love to play, period. People that get a hard on over what ranking they have can get they’re hard on. The Apex system is a part of the system that is in place right now in the USA and the reason it was created was for the sole purpose of raising interest in more games in the fighting game community. If you don’t believe me, then why are 3d games added to the APEX system now? Even though srk is a 2d figthing game site? I speak the truth that’s why.

I personally throw (Final Round) tournaments because the ATL south scene was dying really fast at the time. We are still a small community, but atleast once a year alot of southeastern players have a chance to gather in 1 city (The Atlanta, Ga.) and play each other in a big tournament. Alot of people will never have the chance to goto a major outside of they’re region. So that’s why each region has it’s own major every year. ECC, MWC, Tx Showdown, N3, and (FINAL ROUND). It’s for everyone in that area to play each other and keep the scene alive in that part of the USA. If it’s run right other regions top players come to your tournaments and it gains props in the community as a “Must goto tournament”. And then there’s the B/EVO tournaments. This tournament is the backbone of the community in the USA period.

Forget the apex rankings. That’s just a tool to try to bring order to the age old question; “WHO’S The best in what game?” It doesn’t really help, but it’s better than nothing. Of course the top players want to beat each other to claim the top dog spot in whateva game they play, but when it comes down to it, the true purpose of EVO is to try and get all of the top players in the USA and abroad under 1 roof for one big fighting game session to keep our way of life/hobby from dying IMO. After the main singles tournament most of the top players are just enjoying playing against other top players from other regions that they normally don’t play against. Just an opinion from a tournament organizer.

My 2 cents.

Actually, if you read thoroughly, you’ll find that he got treated like an asshole because he was being one for no legitimate reason.

IF A GET-TOGETHER is what Evo is, I won’t disagree.

So it’s a matter of how the Cannons want to present Evo:

*Is it a gaming convention which happens to host a national/international tournament?
-OR-
Is it a national/international tournament which acts also as a get-together?

The purpose and/or intent of the event is apparently key. I thought it was the latter… and you may think it is the former. Perhaps that’s because I have a more competitive mentality and you have more of a respect for camaraderie. Either way, it’s the Cannons’ decision and no one should disrespect it. Undoubtedly, they have, and continue to, put forth much effort for the sake of the gaming community.

(*Why does this question matter? Because it should determine whether to compromise the tourney (switching to console) for the masses OR to compromise quantity for the sake of having a traditional-style tournament)

No matter what happens as long as CvS2 is 2 out of 3 I’m happy. One game sucks. I for one am happy of the change to console. Humans however hate change which explains the amount of hate in this thread. Get used to it and trust the cannons. Go get a stick, practice, and win.

Questions for Ink or whoever;

To solve stick interactivity problems the only thing I can think of is if you were to state to all that if someone wants to bring a stick it must be a certain make. Then provide the same make at the tourney. This may not work too well this year but for Evo 2005 everyone will then have comatible sticks and be used to them. This would also make a universal clamp device for sticks to tables easy to manage.

Is SSBM at Evo this year? When will the game list be announced any idea?

You need to stop trying that. It’s causing all kind of problems.

You’re trying to come up with solutions to something that (a) you’re not running, (b) something that not’s broken, and © did I mention you’re not running it?

Trying to devise some kind of global solution for something that has obviously worked for the past 3-4 years is … well…

you know what.

fuck it.

What a waste of my time and energy.

Trying to push your opinion onto forty million people doesn’t work. The end.

Mummy, you need to chill before I make you feel silly. I’ve let you fly for free a couple of times already. Don’t push further.

(b) if it’s not broken, why are THEY changing things, Genius?

Anyways…

My Mistake:

I reviewed most of the posts and it’s a done deal anyways. Most, if not all, of the things that are written now have already been discussed previously. Therefore, I don’t see why this thread is still alive. The decision is set and the concerns are heard… although several are unanswered.

My take: Wait for the next “real” tourney. Let the console warriors take this one. Instead of spending $300+ dollars to HOPE that everything will go smoothly, we’ll just wait to hear the full report and consider next year.

ill throw in my 2 cents.

evo on console is ok. considering that the organizers lose money for each evo, who are we to bitch? im sure they are doing this for us, the community. by having consoles there can be more free play, quicker bracket running, and perhaps inviting some new blood to the tournaments.

i for one, have never played cvs2 on an american cab. theres only one arcade close to me and its a japanese one that uses jap sticks. i go there and play once in awhile, but jesus fuck i hate those sticks. last year, i didnt enter any of the 2d games because they were all held on american cabs. this year, since its console, im going to be entering a good number of them. just to check it out and see how i do.

who knows, maybe there are others like me. never played on cvs2 american cabs, but only jap cabs or, of course, console. who knows, maybe the number of new bloods will be more than the number of hardcore and seasoned vets who plan on not attending, even though i wished we could all just kiss and hold hands and rc together in harmony.

as for the custom stick argument i saw pop up… in most tekken tournaments, the players are not allowed to have turbo, slowmo, 2 button mapped to 1 button, and that type of stuff. i assume that the organizers will make sure that no one has this type of stuff during the match. its not that hard to tell either. if i see someone map a 2+4 command to one button, i know ill scream bloody murder cause thats an unfair advantage for them.

as for the universal stick rule i saw mentioned… nah. that wont work at all. its not a good idea. its kinda like the whole cab -> console thing imo. to break it down even further would result in another 30 pages of posts.

console for evo2k4 is ok by me.

one thing i do understand, or feel bad for, or whatever, is that SHOULD jwong be dethroned and SHOULD he contribute his lose to the fact that it was on console, i would whole heartedly believe him. consoles and cab are different. no matter how you put it, they are just different. true arcade conversion is a myth. look at ttt arcade and ttt ps2. HELLLA DIFFERENT.
BUT i believe that they should have ample time to practice on the repective consoles, being that it is right now late march and that evo is in late july. its about 3 months. while it doesnt equal the years of experience they have on cabs, its still something.

and now some newb questions. i read something about stick failure in the dc. does this affect the stick? my custom has been broken many-a-times and i have many MANY broken pcbs on my wall from my defeats at the hands of fate, luckily, none during tourny play. i want to know because SHOULD my stick fail playing on the DC’s, then im totally fucked for the rest of evo.

Because the only thing broken about it isn’t the tourney, it’s the arcade scene (or the lack thereof) and therefore the amount of effort, money, and manpower necessary to gather relatively scarce materials in abundance, accomodate foriegn players (ie controls), accomodate the participants (ie projectors, etc), and “aftermarket” deals (ie capture cards for DVD), not to mention the possible costs of technical support and replacement materials.

Now, really, it’s not broken. But why exactly would you decide to take the long way home when you could just take the highway? You get from point A to point B, but one is far more cost effective and efficient. Tournaments depend on three things: competition, money, and efficiency. Without one of the three, the end. What is being covered here is the last two. With consoles, more matches are run which means brackets get done faster which means events begin and end quicker which translates all to higher efficiency. Additonally, the overall cost of having it done on consoles is considerably less which means one of two things - one, the entry fees become less; or, two, the pot for the winners becomes larger. Possibly both.

Let’s also factor in the additional costs I stated before. Capture cards are no longer necessary, because RCA outputs can be directly wired to VCRs, DVgates, and are more easily compatible with large screen projectors. Furthermore, the cost of techincal support is minimized to either (a) having additional copies of games in order to replace defective media and/or (b) having additional consoles in case, for some reason, the console is defective. On top of this, issues with controllers (outside of the obvious “they aren’t arcade sticks and embedded solid into the cabinet” deal) are virtually nonexistent because in the event of defect, either replace the controller with another, provide your own controller for which you are aware is not defective in any way, or open the stick up and assess the problem, or any combination of the latter three suggestions.

Another issue is people mashing and accidentally pausing. People forget that there are four controller ports on a DC. This means that the start buttons on P1 and P2 can be disengaged and/or assigned taunt and a controller put into port 3 or 4 can be the one that presses start when it’s necessary. If you were in arcade mode, this would present a problem, but if I recall correctly, arcade mode in MvC2 on the DC doesn’t allow the character switch deal at the pre-match screen, so I would assume it would be done in VS mode, which automatically puts itself back to the character select screen after every match, eliminating the need to press start more than once at the title screen.

Now, getting cabinets and running tournies on them is just fine. But someone has to get the cabinets, get the boards, transport the equipment, and so on and so forth. So, for more money and less efficiency - because running cabinets means a lesser number of stations for people to compete on - you can get the same job done. It’s about something being broken. It’s about doing something better.

The only thing really lost here is the aesthetic environment of an arcade. That is unfortunate. But then, you don’t hear anyone bitching because they lost the aesthetic environment of thier console. There’s a certain level of elitism that people need to lose that’s causing this situation to seem way more negative than it really is. The only viable negative points about changing this over are things that directly affect the actual game (namely, the speed difference in CvS2 and such). People argue that not having cabinet arcade controls will affect outcomes of matches. Last I checked, outside of finding a way to mount it, a MAS has nothing different from an arcade cabinet stick outside of the fact that it’s portable.

If the Cannons allow personal controllers to be used, then that also may be an issue. As far as I know, this is still up in the air, so arguing this point is moot since nothing is concrete.

And please, spare me your e-thuggery. I can’t imagine what a gangsta like you would do to me over a message board full of fifty trillion people that I don’t know and never have or will meet personally, so I am just shaking in my fucking shoes. Because making me look silly here will somehow irreversibly scar me for life and/or warp the delicate path that my life travels on. Give me a fucking break, child. I treated you like you were treating people you were responding to, so if you can’t handle your own shoe shoved up your ass when you were trying to put it up everyone else’s, that sounds like a problem of your own. Respond to people with respect and that’s you get in return. But you didn’t so you got what you deserved. Personally, I think you got more than you deserved because I graced you with a response.

Your solution to all of this is to eliminate people who won’t place top 32 for every event. If you don’t realize the inherent retardation in this logic, then there no point for anyone to talk to you. Do not think that people before you came up with the concept of Regional events to dictate who comes and who doesn’t? It wasn’t popular. Do you know what the definition of a tournament is? It’s competition. At any level. People come to tournaments and sign up for events to play and compete against each other. Even the top players come only to compete. The fact that they place top ten is just a nice thing that goes along with the fact that they compete at much higher skill level than the rest of the participants. It is not anyone’s job to dictate who is good and who is not. That’s what results are for. Results are concrete. That’s why pools before main events work so nicely, because it presents results before running main brackets.

Trying to push your opinion on to people while being an ass doing it was all you were doing.

Wow, are people still talking about this? It has already been decided that it will be console, get over it. I admit I don’t like the idea either, but it will be on console no point in arguing about it.

i will be entering in mvc2, ggxx, and cvs2 and i am a top player at both mvc2 and ggxx but in ggxx i can only play on ps2 on controller but i also use R1 and R2 to blue and red cancel or roman cancel will i be able set my buttoms that way at EVO2k4 if i can’t its pointless it seems stupid that i wouldn’t be able to considering i can provide a great challenge to everyone whereas if i can’t set my buttoms that way everyone will be missing out on some beastly action

I don’t think button mapping is allowed. You’ll have to learn to press the buttons manually, which I know sucks, but I don’t think they’ll allow it.

i really want to complain to them for if they really don’t allow it i really do not see a reason for why they wouldn’t allow first they should ask the SRK members who will be attending if they have a problem playing someone who can press a button to do it. The answer from all them, i am sure would be a big “No of course not” because the game should come down to skill and intellect. Buttoms don’t mean anything it matters how you play. I mean i can understand if a person could have a buttom for a sonic boom or something because then they could walk forward and still do it but having a buttom for that doesn’t matter because it can’t help you anymore than normally pressing the buttoms. Its just how i learned and if people are trully in it to see skill and have people play them at their best there is really no reason.

dragongod: button mapping will not be tolerated and let me tell you why very briefly.

mapping buttons eliminates human error, thats part of ones skill that you wouldnt have to worry about. you wont ever make any mutli button execution mistakes ever, and the opponent relies on mistakes, thats one of the foundations of fighting games, to wait til the opponent fucks up. that is a handicapped disadvantage for the other player.

like i remember when tekken3 came out, i could not do king’s rolling death cradle move(hardest move in the game) very well at all. i had like 20% or less success rate on arcade and console. then i decide to fuck around and map like 1+1 to L1, 3+4 to R1, etc… i was immediately able to do the move every single time, with no error to a move that is pretty difficult. now my opponent has to worry about a move that not too many people land, that does a ton of damage, but now, it will come out 100% without fail. that is a major disadvantage.

thats just one example, i got plenty for capcom games. lariats, air dashin, teleports, lots of stuff. if you fail to see this point, then you definitely ARE NOT a top player

What are the International players going to think about this change? It obviously can’t be good news…

:eek: wow … i just found out about this garbage consol tourney. thats too bad mabye you will change it next year cuz i really wanted to go this year but im sure as hell am not traveling down to cali for a consol tourney. :frowning:

Mabye we need to put on our own version of evo

:bluu: :bluu:

p.s. the dvd was coo :cool:

last year every 1 of the japs brought there own sticks. even people from europe entered the console games with there own sticks. its not really gonna be much of a problem.

thats fantastic.

throw your own evo. lets see you do better than what the organizers are doing.

people should stop hating, i mean god DAMN these people are LOSING money every year because they throw the tourney for us. be thankful and shit.

evo 2k3 was tight ass and im preety sure evo 2k4 will follow suit.

I wonder if the pad fiends will shine. Julius and Amir come to mind…

I know EC gg players are thrilled lmao.

I don’t really care, it just seems informal. I’ll just practice on a pad…because last year I didn’t get the use the stick I practiced on…

Also seems less hyped. Like if I lived in Europe or wherever, I would be less likely to travel around the world for console tournies, but that’s just me.

As long as the japs show, fuck the rest of the world.

Good luck.:rolleyes: I want to see you try and fail. EVO is the SUPERBOWL of fighting game tournaments. No one can’t throw a huge event like the cannons/srk staff do every year out of love for the community.