Works best in the corner. You cancel the 3rd hit which magically causes it to become unpushblockable, and you call Dante assist timed to hit just after the 3rd hit when the Sougenmu animation starts. Then you either instant air dash or TK Feint Dive to do an overhead, then land and do a low.
So good, thanks. Does dive feint j.
into c. work for the unblockable or is that too slow?
Although I guess I would be holding :h: for my buster at that point after canceling from Shippuga so it wouldn’t really matter if I went for :l: or unblockables…
It’ll work, even if it’s not timed perfectly no one’s realistically going to block it correctly.
So what does zero do vs a really good wolverine? That matchup sucks ass. One mistake (mistake = getting hit by random cross up into high low mix up, or an air throw lol) and you lose Zero.
Same happened with Strider in MVC2, you got to get used to the super low life. Zero vs Wolverine is most of the time agreed that it is on Zero’s favor. Zoning while charging buster and jumping is a good strategy. When he super jump try to bait the dive kick and dash under and punish.
Zero doesn’t need life to win. He only needs you on the ground.
I don’t agree. Zero doesn’t have a zoning tool which is safe enough to be used against Wolverine.
Wolvie B.Slash isn’t like Zero teleport, he can go trough projectiles.
You can zone out Wolverine with air buster shots or even ground buster shots since they recover fast. I usually don’t use Hadangeki unless Wolvie is full screen. You’re safe from Berserker Slash as long as you’re high enough in the air for full screen, or both. Zero can manage the fight from that range because Wolvie has no answer to full screen zoning and has to get closer. With Dante assist you can protect Zero from super jumps by putting a huge wall in front of Wolverine that he can’t dive kick through and pushes him back to full screen.
If you imagine to have an assist to help Zero you should also imagine to have an assist that helps Wolvie, but this way it’s impossible to talk about matchups because there are too many possibilities.
Anyway 1v1 you can’t zone Wolverine simply because Zero isn’t a zoner and can be used that way only at low levels or against a couple of char with the help of a good assist.
If your strategy against wolverine is to zone him and if you really think that “Zero can manage the fight from that range because Wolvie has no answer to full screen zoning”, you simply doesn’t have enough experience in this matchup.
If you superjump thinking to zone with the buster he can b.slash on reaction reaching a point on the screen that’s too close to you to hit him with the buster, but beside that, how can you hope to deal significant damage with this strategy?
If you want to persuade me please explain in details how you can zone a decent wolverine with Zero, because it appear impossible to me.
Edit: you can use frame-advantage search engine to find zero-wolvie matches and see that trying to zone out wolvie is not the best choice.
Zoning with Zero isn’t usually about doing damage. You can get decent chip damage with assist help, but what’s important is that you’re safe from harm, in this case Wolverine.
Super jump level 1 buster spam has more to it than just super jumping and shooting. Zero’s air mobility is secretly the best in the game, at least among those without flying. You have a two way air dash and 3 different command dashes, two dive moves and a fake one, and his blaster keeps him in the air long and lets him switch directions when crossing the opponent. All things you must utilize to make the best use of super jump buster spam.
Yes, Wolverine can Slash his away across the screen, but Zero can air dash and command dash away, or attack with a sword dive or downward command dash. Or even just fall down with an air H. Berserker slash is not the safest way to approach a full screen Zero. Most Wolverine’s resort to super jumping, which Zero can deal with by crossing up for an air throw or air H, or just command dash all the way to the other side and keep up the zoning.
The goal of this (and of zoning in pretty much any game) to get Wolverine to put himself in a bad spot, so Zero can start rushing down safely. If he super jumps, you have options. If he Berserker Slashes through, he’s unsafe and he’s too far to get a cross up. If he manages to get through, you can dash forward for a better angle. Once you have them still, you can start an offense. And of course once you get in, there’s no getting out.
Getting into assists, Dante assist helps enormously in this matchup. Keeping Wolverine out of the air, locking him down when you get an opening, and making Zero’s zoning game better. Dante assist solves everything for Zero.
I think you underestimate Zero’s zoning capabilities. To get a better example check out some recent matches I had with this Spider Man player, they really show off Zero’s zoning abilities. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX-JlPf-cdA (Ignore the fact that I lose those first two matches THAT’S NOT THE POINT)
I tried zoning him out, that shit did not work lol. I’ve played a lot of lower level wolvies and yeah, you can hadangeki / assist a bit and keep him out, but berserker slash covered by sent drones is virtually impossible to keep wolverine out. Even with air mobility options, you have to come down eventually, and then Wolverine is going to be right under you crossing up with sentinel drones behind him.
I agree that locking him down and then getting your rush started is key but man… that shit is hard lol.
I usually just switch to ammy for this match since her counter > DHC glitch really makes them think twice about berserker slashing.
Sorry but i don’t agree.
I never said that Zero has a bad air mobility but the point here is pretty simple: to deal damage zero needs to go close to the opponent, trying to zone is not effective for two reasons:
- Zero isn’t a zoning char.
- Relaying on chip damage isn’t a good way to deal damage, you can do everything you want in the air, but you will never start a combo trying to zone out your opponent, so you will not deal damage and eventually you will make a mistake and wolverine will kill you with one combo.
I understand throwing out a couple of buster with some assist to get momentum or to find a weakness in your opponent, but this is not zoning, it’s playing smart. On the other side if you want to zone there’s no reason to use Zero.
Regarding your matches there’s not much to say:
- that was an online match (online is a different game)
- Spiderman is not wolverine
- you’re opponent was bad, really. Look at 8:44, what is he doing? C’mon what’s that?
- frame-adv videos are a better example on how to play a specific matchup
PS: please notice that I’m not questioning your skill.
Again, zoning does not result in damage for Zero, it’s not meant to. You’re not supossed to zone forever until Wolverine dies because, like you say, that won’t work. The point is to zone until you can find a safe opening, be it with the cover of an assist, or a mistake or unsafe approach from Wolverine where you can start forcing him to block something he can’t
Zero isn’t a zoning character because his zoning tools do not result in damage, but that doesn’t mean he has no zoning capabilities that are very useful to him. You force your opponent in to moving, and because you’re zoning, there are only limited ways one could approach. Since you know where they will likely attack, you can counter. It’s pretty vague but that’s the general idea of zoning.
I guess what I call zoning you just call “playing smart,” which is fine. Like I said, zoning forever is not how Zero wins. You zone until your opponent does something he doesn’t want to, and you capitalize. Against Wolverine, this usually results in super jumping, which you can use to your advantage by crossing under them, which causes them to put themselves in a corner. When anyone is in the corner against Zero, they are pretty much dead.
I think we’re going somewhere here.
Yes, I do not think that covering your attack with buster shots and assists is zoning, that’s simply MvC3.
Going back to the specific matchup (Zero-Wolvie), I strongly believe that if you attempt to manage the match as you did against Spiderman in your video you would certainly loose.
What you did against Spiderman was wrong also against him, but thanks to the fact that he wasn’t gdlk and to the fact that he’s not a character as strong as Wolvie you somehow did well.
If you agree that with zoning you only meant covering your attack and don’t always be recklessly on offense, and that every Zero player should never do against a Wolverine what you did against that Spidey we are saying the same thing.
Regarded the Spider Man match, I stuck to zoning exclusively because of Tron assist. I don’t want anything to do with that. Otherwise, I would have taken the openings I created to start an offense, but against Tron assist you just have to be more careful. It’s a real matchup changer IMO.
Either way, the function of the “zoning” that I employ is to find a way to safely start an offense, and sometimes it takes time. I could stay full screen with Zero for as long as I need to be. Against Wolvie I won’t be getting hit or crossed up, so it’s safe at that distance. But of course, once the opening is created you should take it. The openings are usually created as the result of my zoning strategies.
At the same time though, if you’re up against a player that literally doesn’t know how to super jump (happened once at a local tournament I went to) I have absolutely no problem zoning the entire match. Why bother attacking? Not an issue in high level play, but if you’re up against a scrub you don’t need to do more than you have to.
Best thing i have found to stop wolverine is corner him and sougenmu spam hadengeki’s once he is locked walk up grab and then combo after it, fillin the ground portion of the screen will force him to take to the air where you have the advantage at that point
Had a long set with a pro Trish player. Notes
Trish - Zero’s only hope is either catching her on the ground, usually with the help of an assist, or shooting her out of the air with a level 3 buster shot. It’s also possible to hit her out of the air with a super jump LMHS->L Hienkyaku LMHS etc, but that’s much riskier.
To catch her on the ground, get an assist like Drones or Hidden Missiles and call them at a good time where Trish is about to return to the ground. If she shoots Voltage shots at you, jump and block them to cover your assists. Once she’s grounded you can go for a good mixup. If she has something like Tron or Haggar assist, god help you.
You have opportunities to shoot down Trish when she super jumps and starts laying traps and shooting shots. **Always charge your buster. **Super jump and use H Hienkyaku to gain extra height, and air dash forward to get closer above Trish. You can react to any of her special moves in the air with a Buster if you are in position, otherwise, Trish will probably stop shooting and move to the ground. If she gets shot, get a combo and lock her down.
If Trish is good about blocking shots and staying safe, then your goal should be to keep pressing her until she is in the corner. She won’t be able to back up anymore. Once she gets on the ground, start your rushdown immediately and don’t let her jump.
Good tools to use include instant air Raikousen M, especially when Trish is just about to land on the ground. If you have Sentinel drones, you could even use Raikousen H to hit her higher and combo after the drones hit. If the game turns into a grounded firefight, use Hadangeki H with a projectile assist and charge your buster. If for some reason approaching Trish will not work (Tron/Haggar assist, etc) you should stick to a full screen game and only take shots with Level 3 Buster to get your damage.
At the end of the day, the match is still pretty 5/5. Trish won’t be getting any damage without getting close, and Zero will win there. Trish will likely stay in the air away from Zero, where damage will be over time. But if Zero can get one hit, Trish is dead.
Nice post, nice info
Got to play some Marvel at my local arcade today, got to play 2 great players and 1 decent one. Here is some more info and thoughts:
Sentinel
- No matter the player, don’t get inpatient. Sentinel can’t do much at all. Like I’ve said before, just throw busters and lock him down with an assist and then just instant overhead him (switch it up if the player starts blocking high, or just do it twice)
Dante
- Watch out for THE HAMMER! Don’t rush in so hard when he starts doing j.qcf.
s. He really doesn’t have anything to stop it for rushing him down.
Storm
- A good Storm is hard to block, but not as hard as Magnus. Watch out for the throw attempts because she gets a super afterwards and also don’t rush to press buttons when she is trying to bait you with repeadly c.:l:s (same applies for Magnus).
Tron
- Tried to beat j.:h:s with my :s: and it just traded all the time. Pushblock any drills when she has less than 3 meters.
Assists
Tron and Haggar
- Could be the perfect counter to Zero’s offense. Both these assists stop Zero’s amazing rushdown and pressure and completely beats Ammy-b assist. Really hard to get in on a team with these assists.
vs Tron and Haggar teams, try to build 2 meters while turtling.
Once that’s done, charge a level 3 buster and bait them into calling tron. When she’s out, buster > M command dash > rekkoha > x factor > rekkoha and she’s dead. Most tron / haggar players have NO defense whatsoever without their crutch so it should be easy after that and if you’re lucky, you catch both their characters with the buster for massive damage.
Play a lot of a good wolverine last night, I think that fight is in Zero’s favor actually. Berserker slash just straight up loses to j.C lol. If you have a beam assist or something to cover you from the drones, this fight can be over at the very start. If you meet every berserker slash with j.C and x factor if he dive kicks, what can he do?