Din0
1021
Jam Session is great and everything but I don’t think it’s a top 3 assist or anything like that yet (neither is Disruptor). It’s just that it’s the best assist for Zero (and Zero teams don’t usually run Dante anchor except Mihe). They’re both niche assists IMO. Disruptor is stronger for tele-mixups which has proven quite prominent and Jam Session is stronger for characters who need the vertical space control. Both classes of play are top tier in the game (Zero/Vergil,etc.)
Benefiting lower tier characters is less valuable than benefiting higher tier characters from my perspective.
Diveman
1023
IVe read that Amaterasu anchor is pretty gdlk, and ive seen what she can do, but comparing her to lets say Vergil, what does she have over him?
slow, speed boost, small target (wide tho), faster normals
A wonderful neutral assist, and quicker in general. Slow + XF3 is pretty nasty, I’ve heard, and would easily believe. Not too educated about Ammy, though. Just thinking basics here.
Ammy belongs to probably one of the strongest shells ( Doom/Ammy ), and just due to the nature of Rapid Slash, you can’t really have a “shell” with Vergil anchor. But anyway, i’ve tried every comeback anchor in the book, in every style and every way and its just NOT for me. I basically boil it down to, if I need to rely on my XF3 anchor to win, i’ve already condemned myself to a losing position before the match even started. One wrong guess on incoming for my Dark Vergil and my ace in the hole is DONE. Although, once Vergil hits the floor and gets the otter pops going its a world of BS.
Doom+Ammy THC? In theory you’re spending 2 bars for one mixup, but god damn its a powerful mixup where your opponent probably goes into panic mode. High, low, crossup, throw inbetween the gaps of the THC? Not to mention if you land that hit, you build that 2 bars back and probably killed a character too. Its an automatic clear-screen-of-hitboxes which is amazing for some characters who can’t really get past those types of teams. Can change 3-7 matchups into 7-3 for you.
Cold Star is god like too, half decent horizontal assist, its so-so for left rights but you can make them guess another 2-3 times out of the lockdown from Cold Star, people are going to get opened up for free if you can make them block this.
As for her anchoring ability, holy crap. Shes practically like vergil when veil of mist is up because you CANNOT press buttons. If you wanna block, get thrown, up back, get clipped by a c.L or just straight air thrown, and she has a very easy infinite in XF3 which fixes up her biggest issue. Very easy hit confirms, some of the most fastest and user friendly normals in the game, doesn’t particularly suffer from any bad 1v1 matchups, and theres a pretty big chance that you can at least regularly take down 2 characters with XF, and its just up to you to outfootsie for the rest of the match. Her only weakness, and its a big one, is that she doesn’t really have strong incoming mixup options, and she requires very patient and calculated approaches.
Speed boost makes her ground dash and air dash retarded fast, really fast and ambiguous crossups, has an infinite in x-factor with the glaive, Veil of Mist super gives her access to retarded instant overhead mixups and plus frames out the ass, and j.H with the glaive covers a shit ton of the screen and charges extremely fast in XF3. She can pretty much go nuts and you can’t do anything about it when she’s anchor.
Wait, Morrigan has a corn assist?
AEON
1029
I can’t speak for Strange, but Jam Session is actually as good for Dormammu as Disruptor is.
Dante’s cr.M is pretty big.
dren
1031
Has anyone talked lately about execution fatigue and how big of a factor it is in large tournaments?
I’m specifically interested in the ability of Zero players to do lightning loops over and over again without dropping them all the way through Grand Finals. Towards the end of CEO Flocker dropped a few lightning loops. Last night in TRB Killer Kai dropped a few later in the tournament even though he’s been very consistent with them after reportedly locking himself in his room for a week until he could do perfect lightning loops. Has anyone interviewed these guys to see if their hands get tired or what the deal is?
Zero doesn’t need to hit the lightning loops to win but it sure helps his chances to be able to convert crazy incoming mixups into TOD. If fatigue in large tournaments is a factor does it move Zero around in the tier list? Does the tier list care about ability to win an entire tournament or is it concerned only with who wins a smaller set?
I haven’t played in any tournaments but my hands definitely get stupid after I work all day then play for a few hours. I imagine the same thing happens to other people.
I’ve seen that issue be tossed around a bit, I don’t think that should really factor into the tier lists though. I think it was Drew Grimey who said Zero is one of the best characters in the game, but not one of the best/best tournament characters in the game.
There are typically 2 or 3 different types of tier lists you see. Ones that have crazy theory fighter in their list and have characters like Firebrand/Strider at S Tier, then you have ones that really just go by the current meta and tournament results, the ones that have Wesker, Spencer, and all those other tournament friendly characters at the top.
cjaycr
1033
Might be better. You lose herp derp teleport port crossups, but you can still play that type of rush down while being able to do some lame as well. It’s a good substitute for an OTG/AA assist where you aren’t running missiles. He gets to convert off both ground throws with it which is cool. Then again you could always run Jam Session AND Disruptor and have a preeetty nice team.
What does this have to do with tiers?
Also, yeah, people’s hands get tired, but that’s life. Are lightning loops harder than Iron Man infinites or fly-unfly combos in MvC2? Are they harder than difficult guitar or piano pieces? Stuff is hard, and then you keep doing it and it gets easier. Such is life. Next.
dren
1035
I think tiers should strike a balance between theory and people’s ability to implement that theory. You make a good point about people practicing till they can do it. I was wondering if there was some kind of limit.
Lightning Loop dropping at least from what my brother tells me usually is never about fatigue. You have to have really shitty hands to get “tired” during lightning loop. Ino’s Chemical Love FRC’s in GG are more like something you could get “tired” doing but even then you’d have to have pretty shitty hands.
When my brother drops lightning loop it’s more about how picky it is to transition from one button charge to the other button charge during the TK’s. That and how some characters like Magneto you have to super jump at some point during the loop. It’s more about like “Operation board game” type precision stuff (a mental thing) than your hands getting tired like a sport.
Flight of the Bumblebee >>>>>> lightning loops.
This. LL is not hard to execute due to the demanding physical execution, if you can TK then once you learn the timing and spacing you can LL. The actual TK repetitions are actually fairly spaced out and can be done somewhat leisurely. Morri’s unfly/fly is more physically demanding, but easier to do than the LLs.
Deadpools “I can teleport as much as I want” glitch is MUCH harder than either in my experience. As are some of the Strange Teleport shenanigans.
Pretty sure you can pick-up off of disruptah from both ground throws, at least I know for a fact you can off of Modoks beam and his beam and disruptah are fairly similar. And I think having a strong teleport mixup is more important for Dorm than an AA. Not that having an AA is bad. It’s just that approaching Dorm from the air is pretty challenging as is. That and I run Dorm with missiles.
Anyway, not saying that Dante’s assist is bad for Dorm, hell, it’s good for everyone. I just believe that having a fast horizontal assist is a HUGE boon for anyone with a character relative teleport.
Don’t you have to input a fast teleport input to get him to dismiss the malfunction? A friend showed me this awhile back.
