“everone dealt with it just fine” Because nobody played Morrigan with Hidden Missiles in vanilla. iirc.
Chrisis
3183
Let me state where I disagree with each of those points.Vortex is about controlling space, if you force Morrigan into 5B range she needs to stop doing what she’s doing, it’s not about getting the hit it’s about taking away options. Thunderbolt covering that angle is dramatically important in the match up for a lot of reasons, first it hits assists, second it destroys Fireballs as you said. Third it prevents her from moving forward through her normal prefered vectors meaning she has less space to run, fourth it prevents her from doing her low altitude zoning patterns and since Dante has a good enough wave dash that makes a huge difference. It gives him more mobility in general, it’s not just about avoiding fireballs though that’s a nice addition, it’s about controlling what part of the screen you need to play on. As for the tools in the match up, I agree on acid rain it definitely controls a lot of important space especially if you’ve used DT to back her toward a corner and reduce her otpions.
Multi-lock I haven’t tried much in the match up since I assumed its comparatively low durability would make it ineffectual with her higher durability stuff on the screen unless you were already at an angle which something else would work better anyways (I may be mistaken, please feel free to tell me how multi-lock is of use in this match up.) Teleporting against someone running Morrigan +Missiles which is what this was about seems like a miserable idea especially when paired with her DP fly cancels that she can safely option select against Dante thanks to his single teleport (236+attack for prefered angle 421A 236 (confirm S) which inverts to 214 (no fireball or non cancellable action unless you were using S) 623 (DP cancel) 214 (Safe fly cancel for further combos). I don’t see a lot of use for teleport unless I already have put disincentives on screen like a high charge air play, acid rain, etc. Stinger is risky against a character who likes to be off the ground in regular strings since that gives the possibility of a whiffed stinger and thus a punish. Though I agree that when used sparsely it’s a decent tool against her. In the situation Jam session is really good you’ve already gotten past the hard parts of the match up and although nice isn’t particularly better than super jump cross up B.
I put the match as 6-4 without DT, 7-3 with. Maybe it’s just against the Morrigans I play (Primarily Dacidbro) but that match up seems pretty painful for her especially with the threat of vortex and thunder bolt, double air dash and triple jump along with flight for moving around and controlling space. It could just be my perception however.
Yeah Vanilla had DHC glitch with top tiers and easy mode Phoenix so there was no reason to try it in Vanilla. Now that there’s less easy mode death touch stuff people are trying to find cheap situation/trap stuff more now.
The only thing Morrigan got that really changed that matters is that she can move reliably on the ground now with her lower air dash minimum (can basically hop around like Doom now) and the extended hit stun on her soul fists.
Chrisis
3185
If you got her to start blocking your Dante + assist mix up should be able to turn that into a dead character, starting blocking in this game means you’re dramatically more likely to get hit by the bullshit that follows it up. That’s another reason I like Viper, she has a lot of ways of never getting into a situation where she needs to block since her space control game is so solid and safe. If I made a Morrigan start blocking as Dante I intend for her to die, especially since she doesn’t have good reliable answers for Dante normals.
Was she building meter in clone mode in Vanilla? Didn’t her fireball game receive noticeable improvements in terms of durability/speed/improved chip damage?
And saying everyone dealt with it just fine, who exactly played Morrigan in Vanilla? People were sleeping on Zero till the end of Vanilla until Flocker won a major so it really doesn’t mean anything saying “people were dealing with it just fine” if there were no competent players of said character.
I’m not saying her keepaway is invincible or unbeatable or anything like that, it’s just REALLY GOOD. When in clone mode, the only thing you can do is block pretty much unless you have a tracking teleport.
Nemesis stole it.
Quick, someone shop a bunch of tentacles coming out of him for x2 grossness
Not sure how Nem doesn’t outright kill people like Sent. They just have different ways of going about it. Both do easy huge damage and have problems opening people up on their own.
Has most of the community slowed down with Nova? There was that burst of Nova tech FlyingVe was putting out, Combofiend rocked with him at BarFights, and then he just fell off the map. You still see effective Novas (one on Big 2 last night), but there doesn’t seem to be anything new with him that has people wowed/shaking their heads like you see with Zero and such.
She also didnt gain meter during her power up, I think.
And Doom is a better character too now.
No stream celebrities are using Nova hard except for Combofiend so that pretty much has to do with it.
quicks
3190
to be fair it got a huge buff as in her astral vision now gains meter( i think) even then its pretty big
meaning she can keep you in some locked down loop like mvc2 strider till you pass out
also there are ways to deal with morrgian keep away , but lots of these options dont work if she gets started first lots of things get stuffed on startup or hit in the back blah
Yeah I had a feeling astral vision gaining meter was some new feature that they just kinda threw under the radar. I remember people DHC glitching with her in Vanilla and no meter was build. Talk about stealth buffs.
PSST guys . Her Astral Vision always gained meter…
Yeah even if it did I guess it just wasn’t as big of a deal in Vanilla since Phoenix basically eclipsed any reason to use Morrigan in Vanilla.
With less Phoenixes running around all of the old school trap shit can come out and play now.
Did it? But still, the character’s biggest buff is, in my opinion, the fact that she actually hurts when she hits you now.
Still, when I watch Deiminion play I can’t help but feel that he playing in a way that the metagame fazed out a long time ago. As a result, people stopped preparing to deal with SuperLame and are unprepared both team wise and mentally.
OmniScythe on the other hand, is the Morrigan player who I believe is utilizing her the best. He has a team setup to play to and take advantage of her strengths while doing the same for the other two characters. By contrast, the Deiminion team is just annoying.
What about Chris Geezus? I feel like he has the best Morrigan team free. Doom + Akuma assist can still stomp on fools and Doom can kill people without burning too much meter for Akuma who can shoop da whoop on everybody else.
Omni’s team is very creative and powerful from the front but it’s lacking powerful neutral assists and only really scary from the front. At least Masta CJ’s team has disruptah to control neutral even though his team is only really scary from the front. Dark Wesker is durp but tourney winning scary not so much.
Never expected Morrigan to become problem-of-the-week around here
I don’t see how this is a major problem personally. Guess I’m just spitballing here, but theoretically a character like Nova could react to Morrigan + Missiles with Speed tackle, blow through all projectiles, X-Factor and kill both characters. You could counterpick hidden missiles with your own hidden missiles, only using a character that can also dominate/stay above Morrigan in the air (Firebrand, Zero, etc.) or a character with a tracking teleport to disoriente the player. And having say Morrigan’s meter build assist along with a strong DHC option, then pretty much avoid the obstacle course till you hit 2 bars free, then reaction beam super Doom, DHC to Hailstorm or Sent Force and make Doom bleed.
Yeah Hidden Missiles is great and all but it’s downside can be exploited pretty hard
I dunno how Dacidbro fights but most of the morrigans I played like to be at SJ Height, so S.M range is out of the question. Thunderbolt becomes ineffective once she manages to super jump and chuck fireballs which is fairly easy, and the threat of Vortex is still there but knowing the effective range where it can be used means they can simply bait it, unfly, and escape to the other side of the screen.
Multi lock is used specifically to get her out of the sky. The orbs have low durability but travel at awkward angles allowing them to dodge the fireballs. You can also charge it, then super jump above all the plasma and release for a horizontal aerial tracking projectile which Dante severely lacks.
Teleports again are under the assumption that she’s at SJ height. Dante clearly wins the ground game, so i’m not sure why she would stay grounded when she can just call doom and take to the air where her options are a lot better than most characters. In general, naked teleports on a grounded opponent are very risky so thats not what I was recommending, though teleporting on reaction to a fireball>fly is fairly easy and a good way to get in if she makes the mistake to not call an assist before.
Stinger+Assist(beam or sentinel) clears a lot of shit, blows up assist calls and is safe even on whiff so there is really very little risk involved
As for Jam Session, the reason it’s good in this matchup is the fact that it limits her aerial space a lot as well as absorbing some of the fireballs and missiles. If she’s only shooting from above and doesn’t have a horizontal assist(beam/arrows/drones/tatsu), you can abuse this move shamelessly.
6/4 matchup for me, DT doesn’t change much here.
quicks
3198
high speed tackle don’t work like its advertised
its only incincible to projectiles once it starts up and it dont start up speedy
Yeah the main thing people aren’t doing yet is just trying to attack the hidden missiles and keep pressure on her assist. It doesn’t stop the fact that this will still easily become one of the cheapest things in the game for a while if not forever.
Yeah in general if you have to spend meter start of the round to deal with it…I don’t like it.
The best options against Morrigan + Missiles are going to be those that shut it down without resorting to meter burn because she can build meter anywhere on the screen while you can’t.
It must be added too: JJJ’s Morrigan. That is all.
