Captain Amhurrica lol
I think the startup on Dante’s Sky Dance got nerfed, but that really only affects people who do Day 1 combos.
I’m going to shed some light on this. Your assumptions are not unreasonable, but I felt like there are some things to point out.
Getting new moves is not synonomous to buffs. I don’t know the details of Taskmaster’s new move much, but it’s very possible he got some subtle changes. There’s the chacne that the glitch that involves OTGs being immune to scaling is gone, which would be a surprising blow to Taskmaster’s damage. Frame data is also being changed, so who knows if Taskmaster is now suddenly 100% prone to being airthrown after his Spider Swing?
I don’t know of Wesker’s health, but I guess 950,000 is reasonable. He’s still one hard guy to hit in the hands of a good player backed by good assists. It’s not like his tools changed much, he’s still the same character right?
I think Dormammu’s flame carpet nerf is completely justified. Dormammu by no means is overpowered, but he was by far one of the best zoning characters in the game and Flame Carpet was easily one of the best defensive moves in the game. Let me elaborate how this compares to some other zoning character’s defensive moves, which would be Chris’ grenade tosses, and Arthur’s 4C.
- Flame Carpet lasts longer Chris’ fire grenade and pretty much lasts just as long as Arthur’s 4C.
- Flame Carpet has faster start-up than both Arthur’s 4C and any variation of Chris’ bombs.
- Dormammu can hit confirm off of Flame Carpet easily. Chris can do so too off of his landmines, but Arthur’s case is tricky.
This wouldn’t be a problem if Dormammu’s mix-ups and movements are far superior than that of Chris and infinitely better than that of Arthur’s. He has a very solid teleport, best air-control of the three, and his normals are better than them. The flame carpet nerf was very modest imo. Unless Capcom seriously screws up, Dormammu will remain to be a great character.
Did anyone else watching the stream recently see Dormammu cancel his ground dash into an attack? I want to make sure I’m not delusional.
Lol no. Dormammu is not a top zoning character. In tournaments, he doesn’t even zone, he rushes, because his zoning is pretty terrible without assists covering him.
You can’t take two moves completely out of context of the character and compare them. Chris also has cancelable ground dashes and can refresh his fire grenade. Dormammu can’t even start to lay a fresh carpet until the first one expires, which leaves him open (or predictable, which is the same as being open) every 3 seconds. We all know Arthur is fucking terrible, that’s not a valid point.
If only Chris had much faster normals, more movement speed, and cancelable ground dashes so he can create space on his own…oh wait.
Again, Arthur is terrible. Everyone knows this, it’s not an argument against Dormammu.
If you want easy hit confirms, look at Trish and Peekaboo. IIRC, it’s a full second your opponent is stuck there. Dormammu can only get a combo off of Flame Carpet if you aren’t doing anything when your opponent hits it, and most players, when jumping in on Dormammu, are smart enough to hold back so they block it on the way down. During this time, Dormammu has to either run, or call an assist to give him time to create space, because Flame Carpet creates NO space for Dormammu. I honestly laugh whenever my opponents don’t just dive onto Flame Carpet while blocking, because it’s not nearly as good as people make it out to be. It’s unsafe to throw out, you have to refresh it every 3 seconds, and a good number of characters can just zip behind Dormammu and ignore it entirely.
Actually, air control is Dormammu’s weakness. He has no way to cover the space above his head, and Purifications are huge guesses with mediocre results. How many Dormammus do you see tear it up in tournaments? There’s a reason most Dormammu players rushdown: his keepaway isn’t reliable. Most people who want to zone with Dormammu couple him with either Hidden Missiles or Jam Session, because otherwise he just can’t do it.
Now, I’m fine with the Flame Carpet nerf. I’m not even sure it’s a nerf, because we haven’t explored its effects entirely. But your arguments are silly.
…And now he’ll know how CapAm feels when he’s throughing out his shield, and 1 hit fucks Cap up for it.
This vengeful attitude is so childish. If you want Captain America to be better, just ask for it. Don’t take it out on other people’s characters.
Someone needs to find that match or gimme a link.
flame carpet going away when you are HIT is fine, Imagine if, like Captain America, you lost it when you BLOCKED.
Yeah i’m trollin, but it’s true.
Nothing new on Trish? She needs a valid flight mode for combos.
The issue is that against characters like Wesker, it’s already really hard to get Flame Carpet out because he’s teleporting everywhere and shooting his gun, which has insane startup and travel time. There will pretty much be no reason at all to use Flame Carpet against a good portion of the cast, because in many cases, the Dormammu player just has to accept that he will eat damage to get it out in the first place.
Anyway, it seems like Sentinel can’t Rocket Punch OTG into Hyper Sentinel Force anymore - I just saw someone air recover before the drones hit.
smh…i guess he did. Happy X-mas, Mr. Dragon Punch. You boring fuck. Ryu is that bland d-bag that ruins parties with his back in the day bullshit that still works. :blah:
So Doom’s secert tech that no one knows is gone in UMvC3. There’s a change.
That’s because rushdown in superior is better than zoning in this game. Zoning is the control of space, and frankly Dormammu does that well, mostly because of all of his specials and command normals. Flame Carpet was only one of them. He has his Purification, Yogaflameball, and various options from his glowing hands. His options are simultaneously more varied and effective than Chris or Arthur.
The moves are not out of context if they serve the same purpose. Both Flame Carpet and Landmines are defensive moves that are intended to make rushing them down much more risky. Granted, they have different properties and should be, their designated purpose is identical.
I don’t have the frame data with me. Point is, Dormammu’s flame carpet is faster than the fire grenade, he recovers more quickly from it, and can also combo off of it. Chris’ land mines and fire grenade has different strengths, but all in all, does not do as well of a job as the flame carpet when it comes to protecting Chris.
And I find it humorous you mention Chris to have more movement, faster normals, and cancel-able dashes as if they were high points. Chris is among the least mobile characters in the game and his dash is only cancel-able half way. Considering all is normals are pretty subpar with the only good one really being crouching M, well yeah.
It serves a purpose so long as the opponent has to halt his/her actions because of the flame carpet. Hit-confirming is one thing you can do after a flame carpet.
You make it seem like Dormammu is completely helpless if they block the carpet. I don’t think this is the case.
I’m not implying its his strength, I’m saying that he has ways to fight in the air whereas other zoning characters are far more limited in options in the air. He has Stalker Flare, Purifications, and his air normals are not horrible.
F. Champ runs Dormammu frequently iirc and is quite successful with him. Pretty sure you can ask anyone if Dormammu is tournament viable and they will respond yes for the most part. You’re trying pretty hard to make him look worse than he is. You missed my point. He currently does what other zoning characters, but he does it better.
apparently you can combo off of ghost riders level 3
Lol @ that. Ryu says he’s fed up with sucking in Marvel games. HOLD DAT.
That’s because the other Zoning characters suck dick.
No, Dormammu does not control space well. If he did, people wouldn’t be forced to rush with the slowest moving character in the game. Luckily, he can pull it off thanks to his mobility options. There’s probably a very good reason Dark Hole and Purification have less startup time, and it’s that they weren’t very good for the atmosphere of this game. Characters are only good at things relative to the game they are in. You can’t simultaneously claim that Dormammu is good at something while saying that the thing he is good at doesn’t work in this game; by definition, that means he’s not good at it.
Yes, they are out of context. If you don’t get this, I’ll just move on with the conversation. You simply cannot compare two moves as an argument, you have to compare the ENTIRE CHARACTER.
Lucky for you, I have all of the frame data typed out in the Dormammu Thread.
You find it humorous, yet you offer absolutely nothing to counter it. I said Chris has move movement speed; I know he’s not as mobile as Dormammu. That’s why it’s so stupid to try and compare two moves without taking the character into context.
Unfortunately, skilled opponents don’t halt their actions. Name a character, and I’ll demonstrate how easy it is for that character to get around Flame Carpet as it is. Every character has options around it, people are just too lazy to learn their characters. When I play competent people, I don’t even bother to lay Flame Carpet a good portion of the time unless it’s a matchup like Haggar, who has absolutely nothing going for him against Dormammu, and not because of Flame Carpet - Flame Carpet just makes it worse for him.
No, he’s not helpless, because Flame Carpet is +4 on block. However, Dormammu needs to leave the vicinity, because when Dormammu is face to face with 95% of this game’s cast, it’s a really, really bad situation for Dormammu.
Why do you bring up Stalking Flare like its little bit of shitty chip damage is some amazing anti-air? No, his air normals are great, I agree, but that’s my point - he’s not good at zoning, he has to rush. Dormammu does not have the ability to consistently control the space around him.
This shows you haven’t listened to a word I have said. At NO point did I call Dormammu bad. I think there’s a good chance he’s top 10. He’s a very solid character. However, he does NOT reach top 10 due to his zoning, but rather his rushdown. I clearly said that tournament Dormammu players all rush. I have not missed a single match from any stream that had a Dormammu player in it - I don’t need to be told what F. Champ does, because I have seen all of his matches. He’s a great Dormammu! But guess what he does? He rushes unless it’s an incoming character or he just used Chaotic Flame, and then he will throw out a Purification or two before going back to rushing, or he’ll use 1D2C for its massive meter generation for Phoenix. He won’t zone, though. I would love for you to show me a top player that gets by zoning with Dormammu successfully in the tournament scene.
Hint: there are none.
If Capcom wants to have zoning characters they need to make them suck less because, as it stands now, rushdown is always going to trump zoning. Dorm is the only zoning character that can really hold his own and nerfing flame carpet doesn’t really help him in this regard. And the only reason Dorm can even hold his own is because he’s also competent at rushdown even though I’m sure he was meant to be a pure zoning character when he was created.
ryu isnt even that bad in this game…
Yea. unless Chris G aint on the sticks.
Yeah, when I said Ironman’s dash was slower and picked up some speed, well it starts up really REALLY slow on DF. Like, Thor IADDF slow when you’re close to the ground. I’m not really diggin that change unless Iron man gets some extra stuff. I’m starting to think that the “faster fly speed” I saw before was actually a really slow air dash. Also, maybe my eyes were playing tricks, but his ADDF looked like it traveled slightly parabolic, like Morrigan’s AD. Couldn’t really tell though. Ironman was kinda low to the ground.