Query, would it have been better to parry the last hit and gone for a c&db bread n butter?
UltraD?
Suuuuuup.
You mean when Eric accidentally did SAII without it connecting in that first round there? No, I don’t generally like parrying the last hit of Chun’s super with Q. For whatever reason it’s sometimes a red parry, which means not only that the parry timing is harder for Q than it is for most characters, but also that the timing changes occasionally, so it’s more of a risk than it is for most other characters.
Parrying also makes less sense because the most damaging thing Q can do after Chun misses SAII is strong dash punch xx super. Parrying the last hit means that you either lose your charge and do close standing forward xx super, which is less damaging, or go right from the parry into strong dash punch xx super, which is the same thing you would have done had you blocked the last hit instead; you can’t do close standing forward xx strong dash punch xx super because your charge will have been lost if you do close standing forward after the parry. If you don’t have super, the best thing to do is roundhouse c&db etc, and you can do that even if you block the last hit of Chun’s super. Parrying in this situation is only useful if it’s necessary, that is, if you’re going to die if you don’t.
Hey there, just wanted to ask a few things-
1- How & who can you combo an SA into after his QCB+P?
2- A friend of mine wants to start learning to play as Q, so I’m gonna link him to the Q Tutorial vid, I just want to know which SA he should start with? I’m thinking of recommending SA I, but any other advice would be good thanks.
1.Afaik you cant combo anything after slapping someone, but you could go for a jab dash punch mix up, and if its blocked(most likely) go for an c&db bread n butter.
2. My advice would be to start with sa1 even against the pixies and akuma. Sa2 is hard to learn.
I hope that helps.
You actually can link the slaps into SAII on some characters, but the timing is so tight and it comes into play so rarely that it’s not really worth learning. I know you can do it on crouching Dudley, Elena, and Hugo in the corner, and you might be able to do it on some other characters too, but they all have to be crouching and in the corner. Don’t bother with this.
In order to learn some of the matchups correctly he’ll need to have both SAI and SAII in his arsenal, and personally I don’t find SAII to be harder or very different from SAI. My advice would be to just pick SAI against characters you should pick SAI against and SAII against characters you should pick SAII against.
^Thanks guys, yeah I too was thinking of recommending SA I, but I just wanted to check :tup:
i got a question:
what do you do if you’re in the corner and you have fast characters like Yun, Makoto, or Dudley giving you a beat down with high/low mixups? i cant ever get out the corner:confused:
One thing i noticed that works pretty well against the repeated jump thing yun does… (jump, dive kick, immediate re-jump, divekick, etc) is standing jab, or VERY fast back+strong. If that’s not working for you, fierce dash out of there.
Try to wait for an opening in their rush down, then kara-throw. Now THEY are in the corner.
Depending on what character it is, try:
Jab
back+strong
strong (possibly fierce) slaps
crouching strong (i use it vs dudley)
crouching jab and crouching short
Kara throw
Forward kick
Also, if they are going all out on pressure, try to understand their patterns and just SA1 them in the face.
When Dudley gets too eager with his high/low game, wake up SA1. (when waking up, or being reset from a juggle.)
Hope this helps…
thanks for the help, ill try to keep those in mind when i play against someone else again. also, can you give me some suggestions on how get the opponent on Q’s command grab if theyre very jumpy and likes to attack a lot?
It’s very simple.
Basically, for every command grab setup, Q has an answer to counters of that setup. Since your opponents safest move to escape a CDB is to jump, it is more than likely they will do so if they see one coming. So, if you know your opponent will jump out of the setup, there are a few things you can do.
Depending on the setup, MP, back MP, back HP, or HP slaps can be substituted for a Capture Deadly Blow and will catch them on their way up (which is difficult for them to parry). That will make them think twice about jumping out of CDB setups.
It will also keep them grounded so you will be able to land CDB’s or you will frustrate them into doing SRK’s and such that can be punished big.
Also, if they like to ‘jab out’ of some CDB setups (such as close LP xx CDB), instead of CDBing throw an MK boot in their ass.
My favorite thing to do is CDB in the corner, lp dash punch, b. HP reset, and then either:
A. CDB again. Ballsy, but if it lands you’re almost guarenteed stun.
B. Back + HP again. Only if you -know- they will jump out.
C. Do nothing. Vs. anyone with an SRK, this is a good call. They whiff an SRK, you get -big- damage and stun.
D. C.HK. Will hit them if they jump, or trade if they SRK. So not a bad option, but if they block it’s your ass.
Remember that, if your opponent smells a stun, he is more likely to do something unsafe to get away. If you get a stun, it’s usually GGPO or close to it.
It’s important to realize that, as much as c&db does huge damage and is a great addition to Q’s game, his game isn’t based around it. If you’re getting lots of command grabs, you’re probably either playing one of the few characters that are super-susceptible to it or your competition just isn’t very good.
The thing is, it’s vastly in the opponent’s interest for them to try whatever they can to escape c&db setups. Let’s say you’ve just landed a command grab combo reset in the corner. The unlikeliest thing in the world for them to do is to just sit there. Why? Because all of their other options are better. Iif they get command grabbed again, they lose another quarter of their life. If they jump and you try to c&db, they get a free combo (depending on their character). If they jump and you do any non-c&db attack, from standing forward to back + strong to dash punch to crouching roundhouse to slaps, the most they’ll be damaged is, I don’t know the exact numbers, but a couple dozen damage points. Essentially, they can do something other than stand there like two, three, or even four times in a row, and you can smack them back down each time, and they’ll only then have taken as much damage as if you had landed a c&db on them. And if they have a good wakeup attack, like a dragon punch or a safe wakeup super, there’s no reason for them to take any damage in the corner.
This is why you so rarely see Q players in videos attempt a c&db when the opponent is waking up in the corner. Yeah, if they land c&db against Yun, they can take off a third of his life, but the chances that the Yun player will just sit there are really very slim.
I used to think that Q had a very scary corner game until I realized this. I used to think, hey, the opponent has three options on wakeup: jump, attack, or parry/sit there/throw (all three of which allow you to land c&db). That means you have a 33% chance of landing c&db and therefore of taking off 1/4-1/3 of the opponent’s health, right? Well, if each option had the same “riskiness quotient” or whatever, then yeah, each option would potentially lead to the same damage taken and you’d have a 33% chance of landing c&db. You’d also be Dudley, and not Q. In reality, Q’s corner game isn’t really that awesome because chances are much greater that your opponent will jump or attack than sit there, just because of how the damage they can potentially take in each scenario differs.
I think this is why many top level Q players don’t emphasize cornerning the opponent. If you notice, lots of them, even when they have the opponent cornered, sort of voluntarily back away and continue playing the keep-away game. They realize that Q’s strength is not in cornering the opponent but in running away from him, so that’s how they play.
This isn’t to say you should never try c&db when the opponent is waking up, because you don’t want to give them the option of just sitting there blocking low. It’s just that it’s generally safer not to, or maybe to try a karathrow instead.
I said going for another CDB after a corner reset was Ballsy, I didn’t say do it every time. I should have stressed that you HARDLY EVER do it especially in tournament play. You are totally correct that the opponent is least likely to block low or try parry after the corner reset.
In tournaments the first thing you should on a cornered opponent is BLOCK. The pressure is on your opponent, not you. You force an SRK, you just got 40% damage combo or more.
Good players will either do nothing or jump, because they are the safest options. That’s why his AA’s are so effective here. Yes the damage is smaller than CDB but so what? B.HP again will take off a nice chunk + add big stun.
More importantly, though, realize that if your b. HP , AA slaps, or B.HK lands, you are once again in the position for another mixup. In other words, you once again have the advantage. Your opponent will be scared to jump, and the chances they will do something stupid like throw out an SRK are greater.
The advantage is always in your favor when you have someone cornered, and the best policy is to play it smart and block, but if you know your opponent is playing it safe as well, now might be the time to go for something ballsy and a possible GGPO. It’s all about reading the situation and the other player.
Q is MAD dangerous in the corner, probably one of the scariest in the game. Just because you haven’t seen Japanese players exploit it in videos doesn’t mean it isn’t there.
Yes, the chances they will SRK or Jump are MUCH, MUCH greater than the chances they will block low or try parry. Hence why you should throw out an AA to nail them, or bait the SRK.
The most important thing to remember is that if you are successful, you are once again in the advanteous (-sic-?) situation, forcing another mixup. If an AA hit them, they will be more inclined to SRK this time. If the SRK was blocked and you put a hurting on them, they will be more inclined to jump or block low. That might be the time to AA again or get ballsy and go for the stun and/or KO.
UltraDavid is far scarier with Q mid screen than in the corner. Q’s antiair normals play an excellent (and I also might say annoying) zoning game when paired with dash punching and kara throws.
I agree with what you guys say. Even though I don’t play as Q (and probably never will) his game definitely has to revolve around out-defending the opponent. C and DB’s are important but they are overall not strong enough to win you a match alone (unless you totally fuck up the opponent’s defensive game). From watching vids and playing against other people’s Q’s (Ultra David’s, MODs), it seems that winning for them involves minimizing the damage they take by effective blocking and zoning with Q’s air game and setting up for C and DB when the chance becomes available.
Unfortunately I play a character that’s VERY difficult for Q to deal with. This is outside of the fact that Ibuki is a very underplayed character to begin with. So dealing with her mix ups will be troublesome for those not adjusted to her play style. The only way for Q to win against Ibuki is literally to outblock her. The more mixups you can defend/parry, the higher your chances of winning. This is because Ibuki’s rush/poking game totally messes up everything Q has. f+HK and c.MK are Q’s worst nightmare. They just distance him way too well (along with EX kunais and all the other crap Ibuki has). Luckily if Q can place moves in the right places he can do damage to Ibuki since her health bar is the second worst in the game. Even so, it’s very hard to do damage to a character when your only options for retaliation are to block, parry or super.
In the matches that I’ve seen of Kuroda vs. an Ibuki player…Kuroda won by basically blocking EVERYTHING Ibuki was throwing at him. Literally running the time clock out once or twice in order to get a win and getting in taunts when he had space.
I also wanted to add that I never said CDB or corner fucking was the most important element of Q’s game. I totally agree with what Dave and others have said that defense, zoning, and kara throw are much more important.
That said, however, if your opponents are not scared to be corned by Q, something is wrong.
[media=youtube]kxuHQVBdegc[/media]
This video shows some of the things I was talking about involving Q’s corner game.
Fast Forward it to 2:50 seconds.
There are a dozen characters in this game with more damaging options in the corner than Q. Opponents shouldn’t want to be cornered by Q, but there are lots of characters they should want even less to be cornered by.
Like, not only is it not in your interests to do c&db much on wakeup because the opponent probably won’t sit there, but also because you risk eating a huge combo, in some cases for more damage than you would have dealt to the opponent. I mean, against Makoto, that’s just about the end of the round. It’s foolish to do something that both you and your opponent have incentives to avoid. This leaves you with nothing but your normals and regular throw games to deal damage; that is, with nothing but the bare bones of corner pressure. Yes, throw a c&db out occasionally just to keep the opponent on his toes, but other than that you’re stuck with the denuded version of most other characters’ corner games.
I’m going to give Q a try, even though I’ve been practicing Ibuki on crack for the past two months. I just like the thought of NOT FUCKING MOVING EVER without the added cheese / bullshit / bore factor of having it be Chun-Li.
Also Gold Q is the best fucking color palette in the god damn game mother fucker.
Bottom line when Q has the opponent in the corner, they are forced to react, because of the threat of CDB. If that threat wasn’t there, he’d be nothing in the corner. It’s also the range of CDB, and the fact you can hit AA’s from the same distant range.
Do you agree with me that, your opponent is more likely to jump or SRK than to block low or try parry when Q has them cornered? That is the whole point. I am not arguing about the safety of CDB. I stressed in the last 3 posts you **hardly ever CDB on wakeup or after the reset **. It’s risky and ballsy, things need to be considered like your opponents meter, his habits. You should always feel them out first by blocking and if they jump, chances are they would do it again and if they SRK, there’s your free damage.
At the same time, if you never do it you’re basically telling your opponents that Down+Back is a safe option for them in the corner, when it should not be.
This is why Q is strong in the corner. If your ignoring it you’re ignoring a big part of his game.
Also, I’m not arguing that his corner game is the best in the cast. Far from it. I’m just saying it’s good, and that he actually **has ** game in the corner, which is not true for most of the low tier (and some of the higher tier). It’s one of the few things Q has going for him.
But whatever I’ve been beating this horse for too many posts. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.
Also I want to stress there is no hate here. I know Dave in real life, this is just friendly argument. This statement probably isn’t neccesary, but believe it or not I’ve had bridges burned over arguments even more trivial than this, so I’m just throwing that out there just in case.
Streak’s Q tutorial explains it better than I can so I encourage those reading this thread to check that out and judge for yourself. The link, again is [media=youtube]kxuHQVBdegc[/media] .