14941

You’re right, they are an excellent commentator duo. I actually like the difference in viewpoints they bring to the game.

F-Word perhaps brings a more competitive and high level understanding to his commentary, whereas Logan’s is a little more observational and reactionary (sans F-Word’s depth of knowledge). Though in no way does this infer Logan is deficient in this sense - I actually like how his observations represent and hype up a common spectator vantage point and put it into words combined with his obvious experience of seeing a lot of high level matches played out. With both guys working together it makes for a nice mix in perspective.

Irrespective of each commentator’s technical observation differences, they both let rip with excitement at the same time with genuine excitement and borderline reckless abandon which is awesome. This tourney played out quite late for me on a Sunday and they kept me riveted (along with the awesome gameplay on display) which was awesome.

Hats off to them both. I personally find commentary difficult and really appreciate what they (and many others) bring to the commentary table. They’re definitely a staple for me when watching European tournaments and I hope they keep at it for SF5. They both come across as genuinely enjoying themselves and appreciative of high level play which is great.

14942

No I don’t agree with this kind of emo bullshit at all.

Nothing I say now is going to take away from the fact that F-Word and Logan are good commentators. It’s not going to change the fact that they, and others say what they say and are sometimes wrong about it. Yes, I was being sarcastic and yes I may be a complete asshole with a huge ego, or maybe I’m such some average guy that would prefer to see more insightful FG discussion and commentary as opposed to “oohs” and “aahs”, but WTF does that have to do with the fact that many people just don’t understand simple SF fundamentals? Would you like me to apologise for the fact that some people just don’t know things? How about you drop the soap opera and instead just try to learn and maybe even gasp try to contribute in a meaningful way?

It took me about 30 minutes to record, encode and edit that short clip I posted. Add another 10 for typing out a big ass post and finding material for people like you, only to be told that I need to adjust my attitude.

Why on Earth would I and others want to contribute anything more if this is the dumb kinda shit we have to deal with?

No sir, it is you who needs the attitude adjustment.

14943

Ilitirit knows his stuff man. Btw I didnt learn anything from that video of daigo vs that rog player because I suck at analysing fights, its one of the reasons why I cant learn some mu’s. I watch a few replays of me losing yet I can only think of a few things I could have done differently.

14944

You need to watch a lot more matches then and not at like real time speed. pause, rewind, take notes, etc. If your fundamentals are still not good enough to comprehend what you’re missing, using the footsie guide in my sig and creating real match examples with your character can help unlock the correlation between the aspect and how it applies to your character and thus your frame of reference for the game.

Playing people better than yourself and asking questions never hurts either.

14945

You’ll begin to notice more things over time if you keep at it and constantly try to improve your game. What happened in the video is that the Balrog player set up both his super and ultra punish through the fireballs with a blocked sweep beforehand. He held on to a charge while it was being blocked and simply waited for the opponent to respond with a fireball as he did previously in the match (a habit he picked up on).

14946

I like dropping knowledge, I like learning things, and I want people to learn.

I’ll give you a few pointers specifically for that vid.

When Momochi does cr.mk hadouken and then punishes a fireball it’s based on the same concepts as when Maeda Taison does st.hk. After Daigo blocks it, he performs what is commonly known as a “revenge reversal”. There’s more to it than this, but for now just remember that Momochi throwing a fireball and punishing is the same as when Taison does st.HK then jumps over the fireball, or does EX Dash Upper, or does another one immediately to counter the fireball. Apply that same idea to Daigo blocking a sweep. Notice how Taison responds to the situation when he has meter, and when he doesn’t.

But footsies are of course far deeper than that. The st.hk is also used to control space, to condition the opponent, and of course for simple raw damge. Ryu can also do the same kinda things. This is part of the deeper reason why people say that Ryu and Boxer are good footsie characters. It’s not just their toolset - it’s what the toolset allows you to do. Ryu and Boxer’s tools are multi-faceted, meaning you can use them to apply a lot of techniques, sometimes simultaneously, especially when used in conjuction with other moves. eg cr.mk to control the space directly in front of you, DP when the opponent tries to jump.

Here’s an example from Daigo’s perspective:
At the start of the match, Daigo retreats then throws a fireball, twice. The third time he whiffs a jab. This is conditioning. To constitute a pattern, there needs to be at least 2 instances that the opponent can read. Notice Taison reads a fireball by jumping preemptively, but Daigo anti-airs him with a mistimed DP.

Don’t just look at individual moves. Look at what happens before and after. Look at how the opponents react. Try to understand why the players do what they do.

14947

Wakeup crMK def is not new, but it’s not something you see people pull out very often in all fairness. It’s certainly smart in the right situations and has been used it’s just you don’t see it that often anymore for whatever reason. I can’t think of a time I’ve seen it more than once in a tournament in the last year or so beyond just recently. Though that is just by my own memory rather than looking back through all matches, I could be forgetting it. I do remember an old excellent adventures where Mike Ross was baffled at it, lol.

I’m not saying that the commentators are right in their statement, just giving them a little bit of leeway.

That’s my two cents at least.

14948

useful information on this thread?

wtf i was ready to talk about silly stuff damn

14949

Daigo and Momochi are Japanese.
Chris Tatarian is American with an Armenian background.

Also you actually learn a lot from watching videos, and you can also steal some setups. Got a new one on Guile but it lets him out the corner.

14950

if you ever want to learn third strike I will be nice as peaches to you. any other game though you are on your own and will have to suffer the slings and arrows of various internet mean fellas.

also if you want to learn ST Chun and only mash standing strong + throw OS I can teach you that too. and I’m so friendly! it’s true.

14951

We live in the YT-era of fighting games. Thanks to SF4 special effects,combos and whatsoever not all the new leafs give a look at the essential. Some “tutorials” or combo vids explain how to do a certain move or a setup, but don’t explain how prepare the opponent to this. I think most of us give a look at where we fail in a game/mu,but still too many are waiting for others to explain everything comes from their experiences and efforts. I can’t blame Illitirit, sometimes trying to do some homework isn’t that bad. Maybe he sound too rude,but I think he wants you to look better on what happen on the screen.

Don’t take it personal @Cagan , this can help you in your FG life.

14952

I can’t speak for what happens in tournaments, but it’s one of those things that requires a solid read before you can use it. And typically you will only see it vs characters/players who don’t often go for x-up Oki. I know for a fact Daigo uses it a lot. He even used it against Maeda Taison in one of those matches in the Kumite I referenced (match 5 after getting tick-thrown). It counters people walking in and out of your crouch tech range.

That really is a very good set for learning fundamentals, and even advanced tactics. They demonstrate many of the concepts I posted about. In one match Daigo jumps back and throws a fireball. Taison does a full-screen punish. In another, Taison walks back to full screen distance to give Daigo that same illusion of safety. Daigo again throws a fireball and gets punished with Ultra. Even top players make mistakes like this. Of course, sometimes they are using it as a higher level bait to get their opponent to focus on something else.

14953

I wasn’t disagreeing with you at all, good points. My point was simply that it’s a little fair for someone to be surprised at seeing something they’ve possibly never seen before. On the flip side, people acting like it makes no sense haven’t taken the time to examine the situation. Now maybe you don’t have time to do that while commentating but if it truly surprised you maybe you could think about it during the times you’re not commentating. Especially if you’re one of the competitors and not just a commentator since you may actually run into someone doing that.

Good breakdowns btw. :slight_smile:

14954

When I said earlier that this isn’t talked much about, this is what I meant. Most of the talk about basics get drowned in an endless sea of tech and combos. In fact, that was all people told me about when I started out. In retrospect, I realize that most of my local players don’t really understand the basics good enough to teach them, so people would talk about combos and setups instead.

I’m really glad the discussion on the last page happened, because there’s a lot of very useful stuff there and I learned quite a bit from it. Shoutouts to illitrit, good shit man.

14955

It’s worth it to revisit revisit S-Kill’s Domination 101 articles, and his follow-up. There’s a lot that he talks about that you won’t get after your 1st, 2nd or even 10th reading, mostly because he was talking about more abstract things that only people with experience understood intuitively. Some of the things he wrote about were comparable to Ancient Chinese script - you could only understand it if you already knew the meaning. But once you realise the connection, a lot of things will automatically just fall into place.

And if people think I’m sarcastic, condescending and acerbic they should read this:

But I do agree that there aren’t enough tutorials about Street Fighter strategy. Or rather, the tutorials that exist, while decent, provide information at a higher level than is useful for most people. Sometimes it’s because the people who create the content understand the concepts intuitively but don’t really know how to express them, sometimes it’s because they expect viewers to understand what they mean without needing to break it down further, and sometimes it’s simply because they aren’t qualified to talk about it.

For example, one top tournament player once remarked on one of his podcasts “walking forward is bait for a jump”. Now this is a deep idea based on simple concepts, and even though it was clear HE understood what he meant, most listeners didn’t and just accepted it at the most superficial level.

One problem is that people understand combat in Street Fighter in different ways. At the simplest level, it’s about draining your opponent’s health by hitting them. While technically true, you don’t gain any insight into HOW to land those hits. On the intermediate level, you start think about it in terms of controlling space. Or maybe in terms of resource management. Once you surpass that level, you begin to realize that there are MANY different ways of interpreting Street Fighter, and sometimes the key to overcoming a plateau is to just look at the game, or even just a matchup slightly differently.

So yeah, it’s not really the easiest thing in the world to talk about strategy because you have to map abstract ideas onto things that are more comprehensible, not for yourself, but for the average viewer who quite possibly is still a beginner. And usually there is more than one way of doing so. So often content creators get stuck in the process of trying to explain seemingly esoteric ideas in a way that’s understandable by a wide range of people. If only a handful of people can relate to what you are trying to convey, then there’s no point…

14956

Hahahaha oh boy, I remember reading that. I thought it was hilarious how seth mentions how having a girlfriend/job/life etc etc is an excuse, when they are all legitimate grown up concerns. He makes good points but I was never sure to whom he was really calling out to, a particular type of scrub or simply all SF players that aren’t necesarilly tournament quality players. I’m certainly not one.

Funny you mention that. I had 3 friends who really wanted to get into SF and I told them about Toronto’s AC games(probably the largest fighting game scene in Toronto), and even after frequently visiting the location they couldn’t quite grasp the game at all. I sat them down for a day or two and we were already diving into more advanced okizeme and yomi by the end of it, and they understood most of it. I used to train new workers when I once once a manager so I guess I knew how to simplify concepts well enough. When I was trying to get into the scene and understand fighting games I was fortunate enough to live in Japan but it took me well over a year(and a fuckton of yen) to go from being trash to being ok/mediocre, as nobody I knew could break things down for me properly.

14957

Now there’s some “ancient chinese script.” I literally wouldn’t have understood this until a series of matches I had today. That’s why I love fighting games though.

14958

There’s a lot of good information on how to get better, but FGs just lack a place where everything is convenient to find.
Coming from a Starcraft background, when I was learning fighting games, I really find myself lost without a place like TeamLiquid.

This forum was okay, but beside the few sticky in general, most of the content is up to 5 years old.

14959

Players are claiming balance changes (nerfs) in the PS4 version of USF4.

14960

Ken gonna be mid tier. Elena will get buffs. Dee Jay will get +1 damage on his sobat kick.