I’ve been using it a lot. I’ve had great results.
Ground corner pressure. Well timed meaty, delayed meaty for CH purpose.
== Works wonders against crouch tech happy, jab happy shotos. ==
sweep deep in corner, instant OH, cl.MK (OS stand throw tech)
If connect CH or trade, far HP into whatever.
If blocked, you’re out of their cr.LK range and still in good position.
Done frame perfect, cl.MK whiff and that create another level of mix up when you fake cl.MK into f.Throw.
If they wake up throw, you’ll tech most of the time. Unless you whiffed the cl.MK, they can throw the recovery I believe.
Brain dead ground mix up timing sequence.
Lose to Reversals.
far HP wont connect if CH on standing opponent (wake up throw).
Ok so what are the setups now, this forum has so much stuff in it, its really confusing on finding what is still valid and what isn’t.
none, b/c DWU
Setups out of resets might be the new thing.
Doesn’t DP just blow reset setups up. But I have seen eita and tokido doing 1:sweep instant hk/mk df palm/DK. 2: f throw st.hk df. 3:f throw dash palm/pwhiff/DK. I mean don’t get me wrong I have looked into alot, and have tested all of these. The setups still work, its just you react to dwu, like fthrow dash hk df, if they dwu you can either A. DK immediately and hit the ground before they can reversal b. Continue and either do late palm whiff and you can block reversal, or do late DK for meaty. Or f throw dash slight step forward for palm cross up, if they dwu you turn the palm into a late dive kick above there body, and they can’t auto correct it, they can just do delayed DP which you can block. I did all this on ryu doing wake up DP. I mean if the pro’s do it, if has to be a legit strat. It’s just a mix up game and no longer vortex. Like along the lines of I can do meaty cr.mk or I can do meaty cr.mp.
Also just a thought, to figure out some setups would work, one would need to figure out exact frame detail, 1: after f throw, what position the opponent is in ie: are they still in the air did they just hit the ground (I dont know this is character specific cause some fall diff?) on the very 1st frame after recovery. Then how many frames it is until the opponent can wake up and act. 2: how many frames a demon flip is from start up to point B (ie: above them.) How many frames a jump from startup to point B is. After you figure those 3 things out exactly, you can see if there is any options. This can be achieved by recording the actions then running them through a movie editor, and playing it back at 60fps and looking at it from slide to slide(1 frame at a time). I have also found after f:throw 2 dash mk df, opponents that like to dash put of setups, if done correct you can palm whiff and they will auto correct dash and dash into you, or you can dash x2 normal jump cmd DK and it hits the dash meaty. Worked on guile/ken
you can’t react to DWU with Akuma. It’s always a hard read.
Unless the only adaptation is a single input at the very end of your action. And we don’t have that afaik.
But that isn’t true, you can react to technical. F throw, dash DF when you are starting to leave the ground tech appears, and you can do 1 of the 3 things I listed. It’s just the setups are not guaranteed “DF” setups, if you early dive kick at apex you hit the ground able to block or go for throw, high/low (don’t know if you recover for a meaty, MB a jab/short if anything). Essentially if the player dwu they concede to a reg ground mix up, if they don’t dwu they concede to a DF mixup. Either way it is a win/win situation because you are still applying pressure and maintaining advantage.
And to be honest you should be able to apply momochi tech to all this. Hmmmm that is an interesting thought, being able to OS block+tech+DP off that setup would would make sense why Japan thinks Akuma is the best in the game. If anyone knows how to do the momochi tech see if you can apply it.
So yes momochi tech does work. So there is your setup… Covers a meaty/high/low/left/right mixup on non dwu, and dwu covers tech/block/DP/blow up crouch tech/delayed normals/wake up normals/wakeup ulra… I guess backdash would be the only thing to stop it, but then you just trained you opponenent to back dash and opens them up to ultra/sweep os
well, good luck.
Can’t wait to see it in action.
ok so i made this video its kinda crappy because i had just woke up. anyway i failed to mention ultra’s on wakup, akuma’s U1 beats it. being its a 5 frame startup command grab essentially. i will post another video on the other stuff i was trying to talk about after the 11-12 min mark.https://youtube.com/watch?v=ymPVXaT8EGQ
Ok I’m gonig to shoot bullets on your dreams but at least if you can counter them we may find new stuff who knows ?
The Momochi tech, well 3 bars lost if the opponent just block, you’re not going to try it twice I think. (I never understood the hype for this).
The DWU variations, you land and roll the dice to see who’s gonna get that CH basically since you manually time meaty, you have the same advantage if you just walk in after the throw.
Against 3fr DP you have to time your DF kick late. To beat DPs you have to reach after their invulnerability frames or course. and this make your landing always late, and meaty no more possible on whiff (DWU). If you react to DWU and do a palm whiff, you have a neutral position on paper. And should be able to do a meaty grounded normal. But where’s the setup advantage here ?
Every single option is a dead end with no mixup potential.
A setup, should be something that beats a good part of the opponent options, clean.
And only using OS on landing. An almost guaranteed result you can expect every time.
It used to be possible with the buffer and the right normal whiffs to get the timings almost perfect. This is gone since the F.throw nerf. (against 3 framers at least)
The vortex is gone (imho) since the palm overhead nerf. The high low mixup was a huge part of why Akuma was scary when he do a Flip.
DF grab mixup was strong then because opponent had to stand up. Now they just crouch and when they see your DF delayed so much (compared to DF kick timings) they know what to do.
Anyway, if you find a sequence that make thing easier, put the opponent in a bad situation no matter the wake up they choose, doesn’t cost meter or just 1 bar, and isn’t manually timed, please share 
I can even test them frame perfect with my training tool and put some vids up to show you if it’s working or not.
O wow I thought I put that in my edit. You don’t have to ex DP, it just comes out if you end up plinking hp and grab to fast. I was tired and didn’t want to correct it to reg DP.
As for DP you don’t have to let them finish their inv, if you look at say ryu hit/hurtbox on DP you can actually hit their head during it.
As far as your views on what a setup is, I do not agree, and this is where whole vortex issue shrouded alot of peoples views on fighting games. People believe setups are now something that when you do (A) should put someone in (B) 50/50 situation (mixup) every time and if they guess correct their is no drawback because its safe. The only character that can do this now is ibuki. That is unfair and unbalanced to the other player, hence why dwu was introduced. Now (almost)every character has to take risks
A set up or set play, is when you do (A) you now have a choice to do (B) where you can put your opponenent in a mixup. And in no way should the mixup have no risk involved.
Momochi tech is good because it puts your opponent in to a 75/25 mixup they can’t jump, backdash, press buttons, do any reversals (for the most part) you take away any offensive options they have that is why its so good. And that shit isn’t hard to do BTW, I just learned how to do it yesterday. And the drawback to this is you have to burn 2 bars if the guess correctly. But on the same hand if it DP hits you can burn 2 bars to confirm in to big dmg. It’s not full proof and it shouldn’t be. But if your opponent knows you can do this, then he will be a hell of alot more hesitent to try anything and just eat the mixup and guess.
Essentially akuma’s playstyle now is like evil ryu, where you look for low forward to fadc into big dmg, but he has the pressure of demon flip, he is no longer a setplay reliant character, but he does have it. If none of this work then why do pro’s do it still, and why do thier opponents not just blow it up. Watch tokido, eita at seam, thier opponents just blocked every setup. And I m basing all of this on offline play BTW. Online is pointless and garbage, there is no loss for someone to just DP in a setup situation and lose the match, cause its “O well lost 50 pp” you cannot train people online unless you are running alot of sets with them.
If you are looking for no risk set play character then you prob try ibuki.
well ex DP wasn’t a bad idea, at least you can confirm and cancel on second or third hit.
As for setup, I stand to my definition. But I also know where we are now with USFIV and the need to still use the word setup for something else.
Today setups involve a lot more “opponent’s habit countering” than before. Because we have no choice but to commit since we can’t predict.
Still on shotos, from f.Throw you can’t get that flip angle we had before the 2fr throw recovery nerf that allowed us to beat DPs. The magic came from that apex angle. Coming from further now, you will never get it back.
Though you can still get safe jump with with bait palm or instant Dives kick whiffs.
You can play around with the f.throw instant jump + air fireball at varied time + jump in. Some are safe against DP, letting you juggle DP on hit even, setup a good range jump a cross up tatsu or at least a safe landing and pressure.
Haven’t tested much.
I tryed also f.throw, st.LP, ex DF palm whiff into DF LK, or dash, st.LP, ex DF whiff into DF LK, some ways to get in before wake up and then do a DF that can beat DPs. 1 meter for a guaranteed domination.
Work in progress still though.
Yes I agree its all on your opponents habits now. You can’t just flow chart anymore. But alas I gave up on Akuma and went back to Yun. I cannot get my “vanilla” Akuma habits out of muscle memory, tried for a month. I mean I can, but with less than a year before sf5 comes out I would rather not waste 1-2months trying to relearn muscle memory. Just more productive to learn a new character. I might go back to Akuma in sf5 have to see what he looks like tho. Atm I’m really digging nicalli, he might become my main.
Who’s still around here?
Well if you are, here is a treat!
You marvellous bastard. Wicked find.
So easy to do. Hard part is making the read!