So if NJ Fireball works on both wake-ups, couldn’t you do that all the time and demon flip after? Or is the start-up to much? How about DF-fireball Instant Demon flip-Blank, should work on F.throw without the corner should still cover both and give you time to do another demon flip ; I haven’t tested though, just thinking.
Edit- Works lol, … after F.throw Instant H.DF-Fireball so both will hit apon wake-up > Instant DF-Blank ; What ever you do in DF will hit after the Blockstun. leaves 1-2 frames for error from your opponent. Hope no one posted this already. Execute DF-Air.fireball with your character vertically parallel to your opponents character or slightly over.
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After DF throw in the corner, I’ve been hitting dash lk.DF kick consistently on some of the cast as a cross up but if they delayed wakeup now I’ve put myself in the corner for free >_> thoughts?
I like nj.Fireball in the corner but I feel like good players will blow it up if I get too predictable.
So against this Hakan, as soon as I got him in the corner I got into my routine… Then realized if I was too predictable of get caught by U2 so I backed off a bit
On another note, how much success do you guys have with the nj.Fireball into a Negative Edge Shanku? I can’t seem to land it
It’s supposed to be safe. Done right, nothing bad can happen.
Either the fireball pass through and you are blocking, either the fireball hit them and you blockstring a shakunets.
That’s the plan at least…
Of course it’s not something to use against invincible grabs ^.^
So I saw Tokido use this off a forward throw on ken and it’s been working for me so far.
Forward throw, dash, hk df kick.
If you see the dwu technical:
Forward throw, dash, st.lp, hk df kick
This seems to be a crossup on both crouching and standing as well. I tried this on ryu and got ex dp’d and second try ate an ultra 2. I’ve yet to get dp’d using it on ken.
F.Throw, dash, Df kick isn’t gona hit if you do it frame perfect. You need to delay something. Most likely you waste some frames before or after the dash if you want to hit.
So the setup is F.throw, dash, half step, HK DF kick. You can beat the LP DP but that’s it.
That means that there’s a timing to do a meaty DF kick and safe jump his 4fr DP but good luck doing it at will.
There’s no way to cross up with this pattern without a delayed wake up.
Delayed wake up :
You can’t react to it to do a st.LP after the dash because, again, done frame perfect, your jab come out before the Technical message. So you need to delay something to waste some frames.
And if you want a cross up DF kick you have to walk a lot more than you should after the dash. Doing so you use a setup that will make reversals whiff by flying over them way before they come out. If your opponent input his reversal based on your position on screen instead of mashing it since he’s down, he’ll not reversal it, and it will auto correct in your butt. If your opponent knows Akuma a bit more, seeing how late your DF is, he’ll most likely just walk forward, dash forward or cr.mk and you’re toasted.
It’s been like this since F.throw nerf.
I haven’t yet found a way to setup something reliable against shotos post f.throw.
F.throw, dash, step forward, HK df late kick is the better of the bad options we have. Because DP usually whiff and the drawback is huge for the opponents that thus choose not to DP after a while.
With delay wake up this setup is even worth.
But hey, if you disagree, please share with proper explanation of inputs and timings, maybe a video why not.
I have the best tool possible at home to try any setup you got, frame perfect or not.
I must be accidentally killing a few frames somehow. I’ve used this online and it’s been working, but lag and input delay makes it impossible to say if it’s my timing or my opponents timing. I know I’ve beaten a hp cause I saw the flame animation on his hand start up along with a lighter version although I don’t know which one my opponent tried to use. Each time I ended up on the other side after the kick connected.
Now you’ve got me curious why I’m having so much success with this. I’ve used forward throw, dash, ex df kick on some ryus and it doesn’t connect but I land in time to block the reversal. I’ll have to play around in the lab with it to see if I’m doing anything special by mistake.
I just started randomly testing stuff and saw that Ibuki isn’t the only one that’s able to change her jump in while she is in the air and still get pressure ; if you read wrong. DWU isn’t that hard to react to.
Akuma at the cost of bar can change from DK to Air-balls if technical pops up for DWU and get pressure or a setup-up and be safe too, tested it on Ryu, Zangief, Chun-li and Ken. Now out of those 4 I tested on all reversal options lose and wiff or Akuma saves his self and gets a punish> BnB or another dive-kick setup.
Akuma’s con is it cost a bar and only works out of the corner.
Ibuki’s con she has to worry about reversal’s Example - Deejay Ex- Jackknife Maximum, Akuma will beat it or trade.
(Zangief)So after cr.lk > st.lp >st.hp xx L.tatsu > Sweep… DF(See technical Air-Fireball cancel) If gief lariats or does green hand you already landed so you can block green hand and Lariat you can DFK or sweep if he’s too close during lariat (back dash > sweep for the spacing to repeat the setup) ; if you’re a bit off with your timing green hand will hit you.
(Chun-li) After cr.lk > st.lp >st.hp xx L.tatsu > Sweep … DF(See technical Air-fireball cancel) Now on Chun your air-fireball cancel timing can be off by a little because wake-up SPD gets beat by air-fireball (her best option is block) so on block or hit you get pressure or a setup. If she blocks you can H.DFK O/S Sweep and it will stuff SPD, the only thing she can do is try back dashing after blocked air-fireball but DFK with hit her still if your timing is right ; if your timing isn’t good O/S sweep. When they start blocking a lot hit them with the H.DFK cross-up or DFT.
Edit. H.DFK stuffs it better so you would always go for the cross-up one. M.DFK is 50% so it’s not worth doing.
The only thing she can do to escape is Super or Ultra, Super wins but only hit’s you twice and you can quick stand and punish. Ultra 1 whiffs and goes behind you, Ultra 2 wins clean(but most Chun’s always go with Ultra 1 because of TP so no need to worry about them having Ultra 2). If Chun has Ultra 2 and you went with a DF setup just palm cancel TP away.
(Ryu - 3 frame reversal) After cross-up Tatsu > Sweep DF (Technical - air-fireball cancel) All DP’s are beat and Ex DP whiffs and you’re already on the ground for a full punish.
Ryu’s only way to beat Air-fireball cancel is Super or U1(wins clean). If you air-fireball closer to the ground you will be safer but won’t get a follow up because only one air-fireball will hit or they both will miss him on wake-up. U2 wiffs for a full punish or gets beat.
After regular sweep you can do it too but you’re at a range where Ex DP and U2 will hit you. You can go for another DF setup from Blocked air-fireball or beat DP and confirm if he is grounded when he got hit.
Blocked air-fireball… HK.DFK stuffs all normal DP’s, Ex-DP wins and both Ultra’s (This is only something you would do when he doesn’t have meter or Ultra, this the only setup after blocked air-fireball I have). Even if you don’t get a follow up at least you saved yourself from being punished because of DWU.
(Ken - 3 frame reversal) After cross-up tatsu same as Ryu, but Super always loses by air-fireball, Ultra 1 whiffs and Ultra 2 you recover in time to block and punish after. On the follow up Ex-DP win’s
The only way you can get punished is if you do your air-fireball to close over them or high, and some Ultra’s will beat it like Decapre U2. So if they got no meter or nothing good to punish with, you get free wake-up pressure.
^^^ Tatsu > sweep-able characters are easier to setup with this and you can hit them with everything from a follow-up(except thoughs few that have a reversals like Dacapre or Cammy).
If they think they can punish you or If you are still in the air.
After seeing how bad they will be punished the first time they stop doing reversals and block. You get to mix them up a lot after block. I haven’t see anyone able to punish me, I’m testing on a lot of characters and it looks completely safe and if you don’t got a anti-airing ultra with good invincibility it’s free. Looking for more set-ups after block though.
Confirms for Ryu, If you beat his DP with air-fireball and he is grounded, walk up FS.HP xx L.tatsu > DP or walk up sweep repeat setup.
Found out High DF air-firball cancel are most safe on Ryu after cross-up tatsu >sweep, If you do it at max high you can make his super and U1 wiff and there is nothing he can escape with.
Setup for Ryu works on Decapre too, but you can’t DFK after… her reversal it too good. just cross-up tatsu again or wiff cross-up tatsu to bait that reversal and full punish after.
Works on T.Hawk. After cr.lk > st.lp > st.hp xx L.tatsu > sweep. You have to lower air-fireballs after demon flip so you can land faster and his Ultra won’t hit you and you get a follow-up, but no DF follow-up. This is a very good bait too. All of his reversals are beat clean.
“You said will they still reversal if they see you air-fireball way before they get up” I said yes If you are still air-born. Mostly no if you are grounded when they get up. I’m not giving you complete yes or no because not everyone plays the same or makes reads the same, but let me put it this way - smart players = no reversal, not so smart players = reversal.
I hope you can show us some videos of this and what it can beat or force the opponent to do that’s all.
From my testing, it loses to a lot of stuff if the opponent even bother. But my timings are prolly not yours.
alright, I will try to record on my phone how it’s supposed to go and are you air-fireballing when they DWU.
Also, DWU is activated way before you get close to them with demon flip or before it starts up.
I made Akuma do your setup to sweep, then either do (randomly)
instant DF and input fireball as technical shows up (some frame after to be more human like) the fireball came out before Akuma reach the top of the trajectory.
instant DF late kick.
At the same time I played Chun doing DW every time and trying to reversal only when needed. (only if Akuma is reachable, so when he DF kicked).
I never missed. I also tried to punish the fireball option just for the sake of it, won with Ultra 1, Ultra 2, Super. Traded with ex bird kick.
Waiting to see you timings to adapt my testing and check it out again.
yep, looked the same for me. You’re still too early, too obvious to make people reversal it imho.
So if the goal is to make the Df safe, you may have a point
If it’s a mixup setup, I’m lost.
Also you can always react to the technical in this same situation by doing a palm instead of your Kick, palm that will whiff and be : safe and on their face, as they’ll wake up.
Yes I was early, to get a setup after you would have to do it slightly later and you have a bigger chance of getting hit by Ultra. My goal was to make DF safe on DWU and still get pressure or a setup. Early air-fireball = safer but no real setup, still can get pressure out of it. Later air-fireball = Unsafe against (Ultras and some supers), but you get a setup if they block.
In the video you are safe against all their options and If they block I could walk up and Hit what ever button I wanted(overhead, try for a sweep).
If I did palm there will be nothing keeping them from clicking buttons, but air-fireballs will put them in block stun.
