41

Here’s my early speculation, key word speculation.

Improved Matchups mainly due to DWU and character nerfs- Seth, Akuma, FEI, Sakura, Gen, adon

Matchups that probably got worse - Yun, yang, juri, dudley, Chun li, Dhalsim, gouken, guy, Hakan, Rose

Not sure about vs the shotos with the nerf to his fireball.

Akuma, Cammy, Viper and Ibuki will still be hard.

Kind of worse than I thought it would be. Man, this doesn’t look good for the King…

Be interested to know your impressions …

42

That’s a fair point about fireball wars but he still has an advantage over all of the fireball characters he does now. It’s just a smaller one.

What I think a lot of people are forgetting is that the -5 on DP FADC isn’t as big a deal for Sagat as for other shotos because he can connect ultra from a backlash safely against most of the cast. There’s a lot of good stuff for Sagat in Ultra.

43

Keep in mind the blockstun of TU is reduced, so we’ll have to see how safe TU FAbackdash is. Sagat has the worst backdash in the game afaik. Also, I have a strong feeling FAbackdash U1 won’t fully juggle anymore because of the travel reduction (supposedly to fix the U1 corner juggle issue). Has anyone confirmed this yet? I’m curious to see what the damage is like on FADC U2.

The reason they gave for stepkick damage nerf in the video is pretty flawed. Random TU FADC stepkick is already nerfed because of the unsafety of TU FADC. As for trade DP, lets say you trade a 100 j.HK against Sagat’s 120 TU plus old 100 stepkick. Even though you ate 220 dmg, you only lost the exchange by 120, which is exactly how much damage the TU would have done if it hit clean. That’s hardly “abusive”.

44

-5 on DP FADC also means Sagat is free for a punish backdash or forward dash if blocked. In addition Ultra 1 is like 50% less damaging from an FADC and Ultra 2 is as well because of the airborne ultra nerf. Not to mention high step kick also lost damage so that aspect is also nerfed from his FADC combos.

The -3 frame nerf is gonna be hard, people already can jump in much further away on Gat because of his size and hurtbox, now with more recovery and his lessened anti-air due to FADC damage losses people can treat sagat like Vega most of the time with their jump ins.

The only real buffs for Gat would be his st. lk cancel, but only if he can actually cancel from far lk as well as close, which I heard somewhere. That at least would help his midgame.

Sagat’s still gonna be like…upper mid tier I guess, but on a personal note losing fireball zoning with the king of fireballs just stings. Especially when characters are getting fullscreen Ultra punishes on fireballs anyway.

45

I really hope what you’re saying about free punishes on backdash FADC isn’t true because that would really suck. What is even the point of FADC after all these nerfs. They shouldn’t gave listened to the whiners. It was already balanced because it cost 2 bars anyway.

46

It’s also going to be too risky to go for a kara Tiger uppercut after a high shot, so basically people are gaining free ground where sagat had them covered.

They should adjust his walk speed, it’s the one buff I’ve only ever wanted. They don’t even need to make it much faster.

47

Well if he’s -5 dp fadc forward, his much horribly inferior backdash will likely result in a lot more negative number on backdash. Unless they did a weird thing, but I’ve seen people punish his FADC backdash before in the current version so…

I don’t actually have that much of a problem with that change universally, but it’s hell on some characters.

48

Most characters are punishable on FADC back dash even now, people just don’t do it because they don’t react fast enough. Gat’s ass tier back dash means he can’t escape a lot of shit other characters can.

49

Hmm, I’m feeling pretty curious about Sagat’s general condition in Ultra as well, after reading all these posts. Keep in mind I’m still a relatively new player, so I don’t know if I can offer good insight, but eh, I’ll see what I can do!

50

The problem is that Capcom think the DWU is going to help zoners a lot but the truth is it’s only going to help them a little.

Characters with a dive kick or some form of trajectory changing special (Ie Burn Kicks) don’t have to worry about DWU, they can manually time and whiff whatever they like. Other characters like Ibuki or Ken can most likely run a set up, see if the DWU message appears then run another set up after that. The DWU message apparently pops up straight away giving the attacker time to adjust to the next set up.

Basically , Sagat’s still winning and losing the same match ups for me and he might even lose some of his even ones now. Characters that will be difficult in my opinion -

Evil Ryu (health buff, high damage, good walk speed, generally just a pain in the ass)
Juri (Hardest match)
Ibuki (buffed to shit, better ground game)
Yun (almost back to full strength, DWU doesn’t matter to him)
Ken (always been hard)
Ryu (yup , I’m calling this one bad now)
Gouken ( was close before, lots of buffs, good fireball game )
Dudley (no brainer , the guys a machine now, he was already hard)
Cammy ( can’t really see this changing drastically, she’s still solid)
Dhalsim ( same as before really but if our Ultra 2 got nerfed on the full screen juggle, that’s one more thing to worry about)
Rose ( I’ve always thought this was a tough match, but Sagat’s FB nerf and Roses buffs I think push this one into bad)

Matches that got better

Fei Long - Every rekka a Dp, match is in Gats favour now.
Akuma - Wouldn’t say advantage but this match is more even now for me, the air fireball nerf is handy.
Seth - Seems like he’s been toned down a fair bit , could possibly be a lot easier.

Matches I’m unsure about -

Guile - Can’t tell, this one was close before but the Tiger shot nerf is huge in a fireball war.
Viper - Seems to have all round got better
Hakan - Possibly a nightmare, will have to see how this unfolds.

So yeah, Sagat’s still a mid tier hero for me.

51

LOL some of the posts here are borderline moronic

52

what people dont see is that its CLOSE standing lk not FAR standing lk, lol if you are at that range to do a close lk, you’ll likely get blown up by most of other characters mid range footsies, so he isnt footsie heavy or now very zoning heavy. On paper it looks terribad, Gouken will destroy Sagat even more, dont even want to think about the Juri matchup. Seriously considering a new main.

53

Viper still gonna rock Sagat.

54

@ultradavid “Viper c.mk xx thunderknuckle RFADC ultra 1 goes into 600 damage” and next mixup leads into stun (y)

55

Yeah if it’s close s. Lk and not far, I may have to consider a new main myself. Any ideas who a good transition would be from Sagat ? Rose , Gouken or even Poison might be an option. Of course there’s always Ryu…

The question is, is there any reason to pick Sagat anymore? He may not even have the best fireball game anymore. Hard to justify picking him other than love for the character.

I’m sure that we’ll see another patch down the road when Capcom realize DWU isn’t really all that it was made out to be.

56

ultra streetfighter evil ryu edition

57

Watching some footage of Ryan Hart playing Ultra from this weekend at UFGT 10 it didn’t look like far s.LK was cancellable.

58

DWU also means Sagat will lose his safe jump setups, which was his only way of easily OSing while maintaining decent pressure, since his grounded OSes suck. He will probably lose chip kill U2 setups on those rare occasions it’s available. It will also mess with his meaty fireball setups. DWU benefits him more than it hurts I’m sure, but it does come with a cost.

Another nerf that hasn’t gotten much attention is the pushback reduction on low stepkick. I think more Sagat’s have been incorporating this move lately. At -1 on block, it will now be even harder, if not impossible, to space it such that you are not handing your opponent the initiative. You won’t even have the option of a safe DP FADC afterwards. Like a lot of the changes, I don’t see why this was necessary. The correct spacing was already hard to achieve. The move got counterhit on startup often and rarely hit. Even when it hit, landing the followup combo afterwards was quite difficult unless you modded your stick for select/back-linking, lol. Maybe it’s not a huge nerf, but considering what the rest of the change list looks like, you have to wonder what they were thinking.

On a side note, I don’t really like where the game might be heading with the RFADC. Hitconfirming midrange pokes into big damage is one of the things I hated about SFxT. On a related note, I don’t see Sagat benefiting much from this mechanic (fireball RFADC generally won’t reach).

59

“On the other hand, characters have also fallen. Sagat in particular dropped significantly, with half of his users leaving the top 100 in the weeks after the game’s release.” - In reference to the Ultra edition Japanese Arcade rankings from Shoryuken news story.

Talk about jumping the gun Capcom, and that’s in reference to the Japanese Arcade version where Sagat was actually decent, before the nerfs. They obviously thought DWU was going to make zoners too good, but that’s obviously far from the truth. That technical message appears way too early for DWU to serve its purpose.

60

Guile is going to be like impossible now. Gouken bodies Sagat now imo, Ryu too.

The only reason Sagats terrible walk speed wasn’t so bad is because he never lost the fireball war…that changes now all because of 3 frames smh