It’s the same with me. I lose nearly every time against a new player in the first macth. He either says “he is too bad” and quits or continues. When he continues starts my perfects and stuns and victories. And after the 10th match or so, I start to lose my concentration. And finally, I lose. And he, after suffering for matches, quits immediately. Happened today. Don’t be surprised if you see a match of my Vega losing to a 1k E.Ryu on youtube. I have beaten the man’s main, Sakura with everyone, including my no-combo Guile and every charge char for matches and he quitted after that eventual victory of his when I was so bored 
I definitely have that same problem, but that’s more a matter of the player not adapting fast enough than any problem Claw has. The people who win tournaments are consistently the people who are the fastest at adapting to playstyles with 2 games. This isn’t a problem just Vega has, it’s up to the player. Zeus is very adaptive and it shows.
I’ve always like best of 5 rounds tho in every fighting game for this very reason and I wonder why only 3D fighters do that. It gives you more time to adapt and get a bead on your opponent, less likely to get randomed out.
In your other post you answered yourself here.
Claw has to guess when the opponent will jump in order to deal with it. That alone is something that a lot of characters do not need to do. Definetely not at Claw’s extension.
You can’t figure someone out in 3 rounds. Not someone that has a brain. So, while you don’t know what and WHEN the opponent is doing, your answers are going to be weak.
The AA problem is by far not the only one.
We also don’t have strings and our hitconfirms are 1f links. Which means: No easy OS against backdash. And you won’t be able to do hitconfirms and OS backdashes at the same time. (It’s obviusly possible theoretically, but it’s humanly impossible to do it in real matches consistently). While pretty much everyone else is doing crLP crLP OS crHK hitconfirm without dropping a sweat.
So how do you know if the Yun is going to backdash or wake up dive kick? You pretty much do not have an answer that cover both options… but the CH that will be punishable on block by the same amount of damage that you would deal if you managed to do land a CH ST.
To sum it up:
“Claw’s offense require more reads than it should.
The AA issue make it so Claw have to guess in the neutral game as well.
And don’t even get me started what Claw has to in the defense department…”
Of course… there’re some matchups that the first line does not apply, in other’s MU the second one doesn’t fit… and in a few both #1 and #2 are nules. But hey, how do you think that we have good matchups?
To end this matter: After you made out of your pools in winners and get to play your first match after that you can’t assume that your opponent will backdash in certain situation because you already saw him doing it in another one. You’re not playing against a monkey. So, no. While “downloading abilities” are never too much. I’m pretty sure that it’s not the major issue.
I would say haz is more likely talking out of his ass than combo. If you couldn’t anti air with an ex Invul st, then you suck at SF.
Combo listed exactly the reasons I had been arguing. Shocking to me.
go do the pc mod…anti air with EX st anything…you’ll most likely trade. have a look at their hitboxes. invincibility means shit if the hitboxes don’t cover you up at the start of active frames. examples being ryu, ken and evil ryu’s hp dp. mostly ken’s hp dp. I dare you to use that as anti air. starts up in 3 frames, invincible for 4 frames. the resources are there for you to try them out. if you’re going to argue without facts, then I can’t help you. this is the best way I can prove to you ex st isn’t as great as an anti air as you think it is.
^This.
But EX ST would be so gatlike versus moves like Yun’s EX LP, Abel’s Wheel Kick, Adon’s Jaguar Kick, Rose’s crMP xx Soul Spire, Yun’s stMP xx Shoulder and a tons of other shits that are not blockstrings etc. Not to mention that his defense would be improved by quite a bit. I understand why Japan is scared of giving Claw those I-frames, he would become really annoying with it. But I’m sure as heck that it’s not in majority because of the AA factor.
Combofiend is not in charge of the changes as he tries to say he is. Which is a good thing, while he is truly an amazing guy, he does not know the mechanics of the game well enough to have this kind of power. His answer to why I-Frames on EX ST got removed is a good example of this.
I don’t have a problem with st trading or even getting beaten by certain jump-in. I have a problem that a Guile player after knocking me down spams jab and I have nothing to do for that on my wake up except block cause my st won’t come out.
^ This ad infinitum. Having good pokes and footsies isn’t enough trade off to me to have absolutely nothing for the opponent to respect when they knock you down. I don’t see the issue with having a little invincibility on an attack that can’t be followed up, can’t be focused, is -15 on block, has an awkward input, and consumes precious resources from a meter-dependent character. Instead Vega is forced to block and lose accessories. People would learn to bait/safe jump it just like any other character with an invincible wake up. They just won’t be able to be stupid over Claw’s lifeless body. But God forbid people have to think in this game… But thanks to Vega’s new offensive tools, he should never get knocked down and be in that position anyway right? Oh wait…
I agree that combo fiend doesn’t know much about vega but what he is saying has a bit of truth to it. The problem is that there is two possible outcome of this decision and bith of them are extreme, either 1) we get a reliable anti air and we turtle our opponents to death or 2) we dont and we suffer losses to random jumpins from noobs.
The source of the issue is vega’s recovery on his wiffed normal is too fast while it is still far reaching. Vega has enough time to react on wiffing normals such as cr. mk, cr mp and far lk (will ignore far lk fro this discussion) and therefor if the move he is reacting with (scarlet terror) is solid (inv frames) then he will be a stone wall but if it is unreliable (no inv frames) then he is free. We as vega tend to see the game from the perspective of our bad matchups (I personally think he is free to ken and ibiki) but as the game is currently inv frames will spiral us far over characters we already are good against such as thawk with his floaty jump.
Just to sum it up, Capcom is trying to make a game where persons benefit from good reads but vega range pokes shuts down all solid options except jump in. sadly to say the solution based on what im saying is to give us a solid anti air and more recovery on wiffed normals (leaving hit advantages the same and therefore his pressure will not change). This way normal wont be as spammable but then we will just be building dalsim.
a prettier dhalsim, that’s more important.
But it’s ok for Guile to have full screen pokes with sonic boom and a flash kick that has 4 frames of invincibility on all version as well as being FADC-able? It’s very difficult to get close to Guile without jumping regardless of which character you are, and he has multiple solid anti-air normals but when you finally knock him down, you have to be wary of his flash kick.
Balrog has massive damage that comes from simple combos, counterhit setups and armored attacks that can be comboed from. He can devastate some one if he gets one good read. Buffalo head isn’t amazing but it is something to look out for, especially since it has 5-12 frames of invincibility and can combo into Super and Ultra.
Neither of those characters are easy to get in on nor do they make it easy to sit on a life lead, however they have invincibility on their charge down->up anti-air/reversal specials and people have no complaints. 4 frames of invincibility on a flash kick and it still trades with a lot of stuff. 12 frames of invincibility on Buffalo head and it still gets safe jumped because of long start up. But if you are being stupid around those characters when they wake up, there is hell to pay.
Will there be an adjustment period while people get used to not doing whatever the hell they want around Vega on wake up and learn intervals for when to jump when he has meter? Definitely. But that won’t make him broken. That just means people have to learn a new thing in the matchup, just like we’re having to adjust to Ken’s faster walk speed and Akuma’s buffed st.HP.
I rant about these things because I love Vega as a character and I want to see him get what he deserves. I do believe that if they gave him all of the original buffs he had at the first location test he probably would have been broken, but to take them ALL back was heavy-handed and shortsighted. Vega is the best he has been in any of the iterations of 4 but if they left any one of the buffs, he would be more of a threat on the main stage of competitive play without being OP.
I would love to look it up actually. Do you have a link to the version of the mod where ST has 4f Invul?
I would actually love a link to the PC mod to try it out! Well, as I play ken as a secondary, I actually do know quite well how his dp interacts with jump ins, as I use it when I have 2 meters and a U1 stocked. It can be used (character dependent of course) as an anti air for great damage. The thing to do is use is VERY late, and do the motion with 313. Normally players do the dp with some variety that has a 6 in the motion before the finishing frame. This means ken’s large standing hitbox is vulnerable to the air attack. If this is the case, ken is forced to use the dp earlier, and when the dp is used to early, it’s extremely low hitbox no longer beats the jump in. Using the 313 motion, ken is able to stay low the ground longer.
Now, vega’s has some advantages over ken’s. First, the only frame he is standing is the execution frame, which means if you are on point with your motions you will never have a vulnerable standing frame. Secondly, vega’s first active frame hitbox is higher than ken’s IIRC (I only have ken’s hitbox data on me), so it alleviates that issue as well making it considerably better.
If it trades with some air normals or loses, that is not the issue. The issue is in the characters that do not have an air move to consistently challenge the move. These characters would suffer horribly to turtle vega. If we on the board are in agreement that he could use a get off me move without a invul anti air, that is something I can get behind and support. You could do this by say, putting a hurtbox on the upper area of his head. Jump ins would still tag it, but it’s very unlikely most moves used in pressure would be able to hit that area. Also perhaps, make HK ST or EX ST frame 1 airborne. This would let you eat a jab but avoid many option selects and such that may beats your other options.
Either way, I would be happy to take a look at the PC version if someone has a link and see what I can do against the characters that I fear would suffer worst from turtle vega. If I am totally on the wrong side of the strength of this anti air, I would be happy to educate myself. That being said, I’m betting the japanese DID grind this out and found turtle vega to be quite strong.
i’m sure most ken players uses 313 o anti air. I do the same with ken. needs to be hit super late, and loses to empty jumps. anyway, i’ll leave you to test this out on your own
I wander: what’s the use of having a cross up if frigging DPs auto correct and hit you out of your cross up j.lk?
Command chars shouldn’t have auto correction
If it’s not a safe jump, then you really have no business jumping on the opponent’s wakeup without a legitimate reason to think they won’t wake up dp. This goes for all characters not just Vega.
Risk vs reward. The reward is a 6 or 7 hit combo into a hard knock down.
ex. red focus doesn’t come out if mp.roll is blocked. ex. focus comes out instead. The bug is only valid for mproll. hp and lp rolls are not affected.
Yepp, already in eternal’s list.
I’m unaware of such a list.
[forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/190962/usf4-bugs-and-improper-set-character-data-list-submitted-to-capcom#latest](USF4 Bugs and improper set character data list. *SUBMITTED TO CAPCOM!*
Got SRK and EH front-page coverage even - but that was before v1.09. Not much has happened from Capcom’s side since then.