i may have worded it wrong. what i meant was that no one can do that much damage from such a far range. guy has to be in your face to pull of that damage, and getting in that range isn’t exactly easy. vega can hit confirm between close and mid range. he doesn’t need to jump into your face to start up his shit. sure, everyone else has more options up close, but up close pressure isn’t suppose to be part of his design. his design was to keep people out, and have mediocre offense.
cr.lp being a blockstring really isn’t that important for vega knowing that you have a flip to cancel into. in all my life playing, i have never had anyone dp in between my cr.lp. mostly because i don’t rely on it. they risk getting punished big compared to characters that actually have a blockstring.
cr.lp being unplinkable means it’s unreliable and shouldn’t really be used. it’s designed to be unabusable and discourages anyone that tries. sako seems to be the exception to this rule though…
i don’t think online was part of the equation when balancing the game. 1 frame link are the same offline or online. i’m sure you can do it with your eyes close and without sound. it’s in your muscle memory.
i’m pretty sure capcom has already seen this kind cr.lp abusing pressure to warrant a debuff. there’s just no other explanation for this. it’s so small, yet it can change how drastically vega can be played. walk up hit confirm combos just isn’t part of a charge character design.
Oh, so a ranged fighter shouldn’t be able to fight at range? I mean, it’s not like people can’t just jump on him when he tries to do that. Not ever. If he isn’t going to have amazing AA then he needs amazing ranged offense. If he is going to have amazing AA then his ranged offense doesn’t need to be as good since he’ll have close combat options at that point.
No one else seems to be addressing that c.LP pressure/confirm is already something that Vega can do. This buff just makes it so the combo is a lot easier and Vega experts will go from like 95% success to 100%. It’s literally just a Quality of Life buff, it just makes it easier. And I supposed lets you link it into s.LK and c.HP if you want. There no way this is remotely overpowered, it’s already something Vega players do. I walk up crouch LP LP MP walldive all the time, srsly, what are yo not getting…
Srsly, calling this buff OP is absolutely absurd. Why can he link LPs if they don’t want you to do that?
It depends if you’re rhythmic or visual. If you’re just hitting LP without really looking, then you’re probably rhythmic. If you’re actually watching to see if it’s hitting before you decide to do another and go into combo, then you’re visual. Combos are going to be way harder online if you’re visual because you’re reacting instead of just feeling it out.
i don’t know about vega’s using it all the time. when i’m watching makoto or reiketsu playing, they use more footsies and range people out with st.lk etc to do damage. they only use 2 x cr.lp in less than 10% of their combos. if cr.lp was a lot easier, they would use it even in close range. hit confirm close range isn’t what he’s suppose to do though.
i know we all want an easier time with cr.lp like everybody else, but vega isn’t like everybody else. i’m just here to discuss how that cr.lp buff isn’t as simple give vega’s an easier time with links. it changes how he will be played by most. i don’t ever see vega’s walk up and just do cr.lp to wall dives like you do Person-Man, but i’m sure he wasn’t developed to be able to do that. no matter how “expert” you are with 1 frame links, chances of success is more in the 60’s than 95. the only way to bypass this is to rig your select button, but that’s no different from using the all KKK and PPP buttons on a stick
i know balrog and guile can’t walk up and combo into their charge moves like it’s cake. chun and bison has just short limbs, your opponent need to be pretty stupid for you to walk up to their faces to say hi, haha. vega is the only charge character that can walk up and combo because of his short charge times. far.lk is what needs to be used. if cr.lp was buffed, it’s pretty much a super version of the far.lk. he’ll be too strong up close as well
vega’s has no problems related to the cr.lp. it’s his overall aa game and is ability to open people are are his real problems
There’s 2 issues with his lack of a real blockstring though.
it means that every string is a risk of eating a KD+ wake up pressure. This means that you’re limited to single pokes in order to stay safe. This makes you vulnerable to focuses far more than most other characters because you do not have a reliable focus breaker that doesn’t require down charge.
it also means that you’re not effectively controlling space. This gives the opponent the ability to get in on you on the ground a lot easier.
muscle memory is irrelevant online because the lag between matches isn’t consistent. It’s not like SFxT where inputs went in with almost the exact same timing regardless of what the screen showed. cLP to cMP link can have 2 very different timings between 2 different opponents even with the same “quality” of connection (green bars, yellow bars, etc). This is exactly why I was one of the few people not bitching about Vega getting cLP nerfed to +4 on hit in SFxT. Online the 1f link was fairly consistent.
The reason I asked for cLP to be a 2 frame link instead of something else was because it was fairly inconsequential offline. It’s a very small minor buff for offline matches. Like I said, people that can hit the link already are still going to hit the link. People that can’t will still not be able to consistently, and it’s not like people that all the sudden could link cLP with it being 2 frame link are going to start placing much much higher in the brackets because of that one change anyway. Iono if you guys have noticed, but the FGC and arcades have been constantly fading since 2012. Most of the people playing the game do so online exclusively. Ignoring that factor in your game balance is a pretty big mistake if you ask me. I understand not breaking the game offline for online fixes, but if it doesn’t break the game unfairly, then I don’t see a valid reason to not implement something like this.
hmm, i always thought the connection on ssf4 was consistent enough where as long as you input the right timing, it’ll always come out regardless of lag…or is this a pc thing? i don’t know…i never miss my links online…
from my own personal experience playing around with the mod with some of the high level players in my area, because i know cr.lp is +5 on hit, i went a lot more aggressive than my usual play. i normally would never go for such a combo in normal ae2012 because of the inherent risks involved, but in the mod, just walk up jab, walk up jab, throw, walk up jab, oh it hit? cool, hit confirm. of course, i could do the same thing with far.lk, but i can just dash into their faces and do the same thing with no regards to spacing. it kinda turned my vega to be quite mindless really, it’s the only reason why i said it might not be just a small simple buff like everyone thinks it might be
Some of the most precise SF4 players in the world play Vega. I really, REALLY doubt that Makoto etc aren’t walking up c.LPing a lot because their execution is lacking. It’s like the best Vega players in the world know better! Trust, there are plenty of people who can link jabs without fail, not even just pros. It’s takes a lot of concentration and it’s hard to do 100% (but a lot of people are pretty close), but it’s doable and the strategy you’re describing is already in the game and not even close to the hardest thing in the game. Pros don’t do it every game because it’s not even all that great of a strategy, Vega’s jab pressure isn’t what’s good about him. It’s almost like being able to walk up jab pressure isn’t OP at all!** I doubt that the top Vega players on XBL are dudes who use the turbo on their jab to link it all day (like you used to often see with Bison players with turbo LKs into scissors).
**Unless you’re playing Vanilla SFxT.
And do you really think you’ve NEVER seen a Vega walk up c.LP confirm? Like, seriously? That shit is good sometimes, even now. I don’t claim to be the world’s best Vega, but I enjoy pressuring people I cornered with light attacks and I confirm off of them consistently enough to make it work. Or off of forward throw. Or just in the middle of footsies, sometimes people don’t expect you to abruptly walk up to them and tap them. Like, srsly, what’s your deal, do you think this combo is impossible or something? That NO ONE can do it consistently? It’s not even Vega’s hardest tech. Isn’t not even as hard to do as CH into U2 imo and people do that in matches without fail. Let alone things like U1 crossups. It isn’t as hard to do as the Sagat and Ibuki unblockables, and I’ve seen Zues do the first one against Sanford.
In Ultra loketests you saw a lot of Vegas abuse the jab because… they can actually do it without dropping it ever now! They’re just having fun with the new Vega changes, it’s not OP, it’s just a bunch of guys enjoying the new Vega changes and actually being able to relax when they try to jab people… this is just kneejerk balancing based on a few hours worth of Vega playtesting. They see them having fun linking jabs because it doesn’t take intense precision anymore, and it apparently makes everyone shit their pants that Vega can now do things that every other character can do like nothing, such as anti-air, reversal and link off of jabs.
If a +5 on hit buff went through, I think it won’t change how Vega’s ground game is played much, just that Vega players won’t drop that particular combo anymore. It’s huge buff to mid-tier Vega players that hardly hit the link because they can actually do it more than half the time now, and a small but much-welcome QoL buff to people who can actually hit the link pretty consistently. All it means is that you’re not gonna drop it because you’re nervous on stream anymore. Despite its range, repeating walk up jab pressure isn’t that good due to late techs and the mediocre frame data. 4 frame jab +1 on block with big pushback? A lot of people can just mash out of that nonsense! Especially if you have to walk back in to keep it going.
Seriously, the idea that making it slightly easier to do a combo that Vega players already do (that doesn’t work on half the cast crouching anyways) is what makes him OP in Ultra is fucking ridiculous. I can’t say it enough.
It now seems it is literally IMPOSSIBLE for us to gain back +5 frames on jabs.
It also is obvious that they will never fix broken hitboxes.
So we only have a couple of buffs to expect. We will get one or some of those. Here are the choices:
1- Jabs:
*3 frame start-up but +3 on hit, keeping the 1 frame link.
OR *+2 on block
2- ST:
*Taking back ex.ST invinciblity
OR *3 frames start up on ex.ST and/or hk.ST
OR *Back charge instead of down-back charge (less likely)
3- RCF:
*Removal of ex.roll +4 on hit (This will happen %90)
AND *Less start-up on all RCFs
OR *+3 on hit on normal rolls to make FADC combos easier.
Wait, he tried it against top Vega players? Not against top Ryu players with reversals and FADC Ultra on that reversal hit? Obviously it will be strong against Vega because he can’t do shit against close range pressure. I hope this is a typo of some sort otherwise what kind of fucked up and stupid ass logic is that???
Isn’t it also only +1 on block? How can people mash if it’s +1 on block but still has more frames of start up, there is room to reversal between that. Or am I wrong about how + on block works?
No hope. No fucking hope at all. USF4 Vega will be a nerfed piece of shit.
Vega is coming under heavy scrutiny for having an easier time doing a combo that he can already do and having an easier time being offensive for it
And yet fucking Ken, Evil Ryu, Guile, Chun, Dudley, Dhalsim, Oni, Sagat, Rose, Thawk, most of the cast gets to keep their stupid buffs but Vega can’t have a regular jab link?
They have it out for Vega, seriously. Just play Rolento kids.
+3 on hit makes it un-linkable to anything else. Worthless buff. Either 3f start up or +5 on hit. Else leave it alone.
EX ST is only needed if they completely ignore his offense. Honestly, the only buff I’d even really want to ST on all versions is for the hitboxes to completely surround the hurtboxes on all versions, and to be able to combo into both ultras.
RCF gaining +4 on hit was the trade off for losing CH being +3 on block. If this buff is being removed, then put CH back to SSF4 properties. If you wanna change RCF then make EX RCF have armor.
It needs to activate further away from the opponent. Best buff it could get IMO.
only if cLP isn’t 3f startup or +5 on hit.
Ideal but not necessary. 10f of invincibility is sufficient.
Way too non-specific. It can catch empty jumps currently from 3/4 screen if you activate when they are on the way up from a jump. Basically 7f (current) or faster startup is fine. Again, best buff it can get is being able to be combo’d from ST.
Not really necessary depending on what other buffs are given. Expanded hitbox upward to enable it to be used more effectively as an anti-air (to combo into ultra) would help. Expanded hitbox downward to catch more low pokes would work as well.
Offensive:
-any 2 non-jumping normals +3 on block
-Armor on EX RCF
-Izuna drop damage increased to 200
-Izuna drop range increased to .9
-cLP 3f startup or +5 on hit
-PoM +4 on hit
-CH +3 on block at max spacing
-CH with expanded hitbox downward
-CH with expanded hitbox upward
-Increased walk speed
-All versions of ST damage increased by 20
-Hitboxes extended to tip of claw
-Generic across the moveset stun increase by 15-20
-Wall dives made invisible until contact or until the wall
-Increased hitbox size on EX FBA
-Meter requirement for mask removal reduced to 0
Defensive:
-Increased hitbox size on ST
-Invincibility on EX ST with ability to FADC (only on the condition that DP FADC in general does not remain` -5 on block or FADC is unable to be performed on block)
-Backflips reversible
-cHP active frames increased to 4-5
-cHP hitbox adjusted to match animation
-sHK hitbox on first hit enlarged to enable anti-airing from front half of head to knee.
-sHK hitbox on second hit extended outward and downward to more reliably break focuses
-Air throw range increased to 1.3
-Air throw height restriction removed
-U1 gains invincibility for 10f or until wall
-Recovery on sMK reduced to 9
-Recovery on sHP reduced to 14
-Both dashes shortened by 2 frames
-Backdash distance increased
Pick between any 5 to 8 buffs with no less than 2 from 1 category
Must fix:
cHP and cHK whiffing after jump in
Neg edge activation removed from MP version SHC
Make HP and EX RCF uninterruptible on block
