I see your point but as long as downback is as strong as it is I can’t see the pace of the game getting faster. Either the game itself has to get sped up or damage numbers across the board have to increase… neither of which I see as likely
I would love it if the game was sped up. Please give us Ultra Street Fighter 4 Turbo!
SF4…fast…paced??
…
Just cut the tech window and make low OS do a standing throw. Boom, much more “fast” paced.
Not sure I understand this but wouldn’t it no longer be an OS because throws would always come out? The only way I could see this work is to remove throw whiffs.
But I could just not understand what you’re saying.
i think he means get ride of crouch tech. instead of d+lk+lp giving a cr.lk, instead make that turn into a throw. i use stand kara stand tech anyway. i love teching with that. people get so surprised when i grabbed them from so far while they are doing their frame traps, haaha
Right… but if you do that NO normal will come out, so there’s no OS.
Yeah, I want no OS on throw breaks (actually many of the OS’s in this game make it more boring). I would prefer to have one only able to tech throws while standing giving more purpose to lows, but I understand that this is a huge system change.
i wonder if os was suppose to be used like this when the game first started. os comes from move priority so things comes out a bit easier etc
I doubt its a huge change… but I’d be fine either way… with or without crouch tech. I can tolerate them as long as I have safe tech traps but I wouldn’t cry if it was removed.
You really can’t remove other OS’s from the game without making everything normal cancellable tho.
They knew about it and left it in. It’s been around since SF3 at least, the issue with the low throw break. Although in that game the universal parry and tighter throw break made it LESS annoying (though still annoying for my tastes.)
You can’t take out most of the OS’s because of the hitfreeze. Most OS’s run on hitfreeze on block to determine the next course of action. You could lower the hitfreeze on heavy’s and mediums but that sorta goes against the purpose of this game, which is to make everything easy and accessible to lower level players.
Think of option selects as just in case moves. Its not about priority (hate seeing that term). You cannot attack during the startup or active part of your own move and you cannot attack during the recovery of most moves. Option selects take advantage of this in that the user does not have to think or decide which option to use since the game makes the decision for you. A common one is to OS sweep after a jump in to catch back dash attempts. You time the sweep input such that if your jump in misses you input sweep just in case at the correct time. But because you cannot execute sweep at the same time you are executing another normal, if it connects you take longer to recover than you would if you whiffed and you continue the jump in combo as normal. You basically hide the sweep input timed correctly after a whiffed jump in… inside the jump in normal itself.
You can do this with whiffs, blocks, and hits since the timings for each before you can execute your next move is different. Personally I despise OS because it removes player decision making and thinking… but its impossible to remove unless every move comes out whenever you input it (causing infinites), or you make the opponent recover at the same timings for all circumstances (causing infinite blockstrings or a comboless game)
oh i understand os’s perfectly, but the question i’m asking is the mechanics of the os. was it suppose to be used offensively like this? or is it suppose to make it more accessible to lower level players so moves comes out easier? i would imagine it’s just players cleverly abusing this mechanic rather than the developers intending these os’s to occur. same goes for plinking.
i guess Destin already explained it.
i would imagine if the os mechanic is removed, it’ll be a lot harder to do ex moves etc
OS’s have nothing to do with making the move easier or harder to come out.
OS’s were never “stuck in” if that’s what you’re asking. Its a byproduct of having different timings for finishing moves and restricting multiple moves from overlapping or occurring at the same time. The mechanics were never developed with OS’s being included as part of the goal. Its something figured out in SF2 that carried over into subsequent games.
Plinking was purposely put in to make EX moves have a little leniency when executing. Its difficult to press the 2 (or in some cases 3) buttons at the exact same time so they made it have a little leniency. IIRC I read an article on it a couple years ago and they first put it in, in SFA1 or A2. Neg edge falls into this category too. It was put in on purpose to make moves easier to come out. Personally I never noticed it till 3s but it could a been in Alpha series too. Too lazy to check.
Anyway point is OS’s were never put in on purpose.
thats the answer i was looking for. insightful!
Also just noticed Destin snuck in a ninja post on me. Coulda saved me 5 min of phone typing 
I do everything I can to force you to phone type.
From srk.com :
http://puu.sh/61MTP.png
"Vega
Crouching LP frame advantage increased from +4 to +5 on hit
Crouching HP active frames increased from 2F to 4F
Cosmic Heel (3+HK) total frames reduced from 32F to 27F; +2 on hit against point-blank opponents; -4 when blocked on 2nd active frame (on active frames 3-5 block disadvantage decreases by frame)
L, M and H Rolling Crystal Flash changed from +2 to -8 on hit, last hit can no longer be EX Focus-cancelled
M Rolling Crystal Flash changed from -2 to +0 on block
EX Rolling Crystal Flash changed from +4 to +2 on hit
Mask pick-up from ground is now a command, 2+PP when standing over the mask
Back Slash (PPP version) now has input priority over mask pick-up when pressing 2+PPP
EX Scarlet Terror now completely invincible from 1-4F
Flying Barcelona Special (Super Combo) now has an attack added during the motion to the wall, does 0 50 damage; Rolling Izuna Drop damage reduced from 100100200 to 100100100
Bloody High Claw (UC1) Forward charge attack’s hitbox expanded upward
Splendid Claw (UC2) start-up reduced from 8F to 7F 5F"
So, let’s go.
CH… I wonder if this is really what they intended to do with the move.
MP.RCF on block seems nice. Now… EX went down 2f ON HIT? I hope that they meant on block. Because… no more EX RCF crMP xx FBA? Thats bullshit. They gave us that when they nerfed the damage on crMP (by 10) and EX FBA (by 20). There is a reason the combo was made possible.
About the “PPP flip” priority over the “mask pick-up”… how hard is to make it so we can pick by doing down + taunt? Geez…
Super seems to be a little over nerfed… 100100100 is fine… but the 50 from the launcher could stay.
Hm, I wonder if its actually an usable AA if you react fast enough. I really don’t think this is the case, though.
U2 at Super’s status again. I am still dreaming with it being able to catch empty jumps.
no more ex rolling combos :(. still want mask to be down taunt! and really hope u2 is 6 frames!
Crouching LP frame advantage increased from +4 to +5 on hit
Crouching HP active frames increased from 2F to 4F
EX Scarlet Terror now completely invincible from 1-4F
Splendid Claw (UC2) start-up reduced from 8F to 7F.
Comboable Super.
Is all nice. But I am not liking the direction that Claw is heading to… not that I don’t think that he will be way better, but his desing seems more, well, dumb.
Either I wasnt the only one who sent in the mask pick up feedback (in particular mentioning backflip), or Peter read my message. Still no word on the counterhit not registering on PoM or any other bug fixes.
BHC buff worthless and will end up causing more off the wall whiffs than anything (for me at least anyway).
Super buff isn’t worth losing the +4 on EX RCF imo, nor is it worth the +2 gain on MP version RCF on block.
And I’m not seeing a reason to pick U2 for any more than the handful of matchups I already use it for.
cLP and cHP buffs are really the only things worth noting I see. I guess we’ll sit back and check out the next set of changes. I suspect we’ll go through about 2 more builds before the final one is decided.