Ultra 1 vs. Ultra 2

jalapNo · 2014-06-30T00:14:35.000Z

The only match I’ve seen U1 would be more useful has been the Guy matchup, being the opportunities for U2 are easily avoided.

Just_Orion · 2014-07-18T08:54:58.000Z

As a side note, I think Ultra Double is a really bad pick for Rolento. The decrease in damage really makes U1 weak because of combo scaling (since U1 is almost always done in combos) and makes the reward for landing a U2 much less satisfying. I’d say you should pick one or the other depending on the matchup, but I’ve been a Take No Prisoners fan since SFA3.

Carnage_AU · 2014-07-22T05:59:18.000Z

Ultra double isn’t mean to be attractive for the damage factor. Its there as a deterrent for options but also as serves as a tool for damage.

For example, against Dictator, I would use W ultra. With W Ultra stocked, he can’t EX Psycho Crusher, teleport or devils reverse, but also if he’s low on health, I can kill him with a BnB into U1.
If I would only use U1 in that matchup then he would escape pressure with a slap on the wrist.
If I would only use U2 in that matchup then it would be harder for me to convert into big damage.

Rolento’s W ultra takes a 75% damage reduction so I think its fair trade to lose lets say 100 damage for limiting your opponents choices.

This is all personal preference so you may be more comfortable using another ultra choice.

I say we figure out the best Ultra choices for each matchup as Rolento can use any advantage he can get.
Let me know your thoughts on the below:

Abel - U1
Adon - U1 (U2 is not reliable as an anti-tooth move)
Akuma - W
Boxer - U1 (potentially W to catch EX moves that escape your crossup pressure? needs some testing)
Blanka - W
CViper - U1
Cammy - U1
ChunLi - U1 (W if you play an extremely defensive chunli who fireballs alot)
Cody - U1
Dan - U1
Decapre - U1
DeeJay - W (Fireball is tough to hit with U2 but it acts more as a deterrant to stop DeeJay from controlling space with fireballs)
Dhalsim - U1 / W (unsure yet … haven’t played this match much)
Dudley - U1
EHonda - W
El Fuerte - U1
Elena - U1
ERyu - W
Feilong - U1
Gen - U1
Gouken - W
Guile - W
Guy - U1
Hakan - U1
Hugo - W
Ibuki - U1
Juri - U1
Ken - U1
Dictator - W
Makoto - U1
Oni - W
Poison - W (Fireball is very tough to hit with U2 but if you can stop her fireballing for even a second or two, this is a major advantage … she’s a bitch to fight)
Rolento - W
Rose - U1
Rufus - U1
Ryu - W
Sagat - W
Sakura - W
Seth - U1
Thawk - W
Claw - U1 (maybe W ultra if you’re game to catch wall dives)
Yang - U1
Yun - U1
Zangeif - W

Just_Orion · 2014-07-23T09:01:35.000Z

I totally agree that his Ultra choice should be thought of as match specific. I like the idea of creating lists for Ultra match ups! Cheers Carnage!

TheFreshPrince · 2014-07-24T07:04:13.000Z

Carnage_AU:

Ultra double isn’t mean to be attractive for the damage factor. Its there as a deterrent for options but also as serves as a tool for damage.

For example, against Dictator, I would use W ultra. With W Ultra stocked, he can’t EX Psycho Crusher, teleport or devils reverse, but also if he’s low on health, I can kill him with a BnB into U1.
If I would only use U1 in that matchup then he would escape pressure with a slap on the wrist.
If I would only use U2 in that matchup then it would be harder for me to convert into big damage.

Rolento’s W ultra takes a 75% damage reduction so I think its fair trade to lose lets say 100 damage for limiting your opponents choices.

This is all personal preference so you may be more comfortable using another ultra choice.

I say we figure out the best Ultra choices for each matchup as Rolento can use any advantage he can get.
Let me know your thoughts on the below:

Abel - U1
Adon - U1 (U2 is not reliable as an anti-tooth move)
Akuma - W
Boxer - U1 (potentially W to catch EX moves that escape your crossup pressure? needs some testing)
Blanka - W
CViper - U1
Cammy - U1
ChunLi - U1 (W if you play an extremely defensive chunli who fireballs alot)
Cody - U1
Dan - U1
Decapre - U1
DeeJay - W (Fireball is tough to hit with U2 but it acts more as a deterrant to stop DeeJay from controlling space with fireballs)
Dhalsim - U1 / W (unsure yet … haven’t played this match much)
Dudley - U1
EHonda - W
El Fuerte - U1
Elena - U1
ERyu - W
Feilong - U1
Gen - U1
Gouken - W
Guile - W
Guy - U1
Hakan - U1
Hugo - W
Ibuki - U1
Juri - U1
Ken - U1
Dictator - W
Makoto - U1
Oni - W
Poison - W (Fireball is very tough to hit with U2 but if you can stop her fireballing for even a second or two, this is a major advantage … she’s a bitch to fight)
Rolento - W
Rose - U1
Rufus - U1
Ryu - W
Sagat - W
Sakura - W
Seth - U1
Thawk - W
Claw - U1 (maybe W ultra if you’re game to catch wall dives)
Yang - U1
Yun - U1
Zangeif - W

I can’t help but notice that you never list a matchup where you would exclusively pick U2. I’m not sure I agree with that notion, especially against characters like Ryu, Sagat, Akuma, Rose etc.

But you did say this is your personal opinion, so I have to respect that.

larissa777 · 2014-07-24T09:42:11.000Z

U1 is really all-round … But U2 is tempting due its damage potential. Lately I only use U2 to experiment, im able to pull it a lot more. So much comeback potential and lots of ways to combo it, you just have to be on point to confirm hit/ punish whiffed moves.
IMO W ultra is not worth it, damage is so low, you can successfully land it and still lose the game.

jalapNo · 2014-07-24T10:00:43.000Z

I like it when people jump, so I smash them with U2 pretty much everytime on their landing frames. #gtfowithyourjumping~

Just_Orion · 2014-07-24T22:25:28.000Z

larissa777:

U1 is really all-round … But U2 is tempting due its damage potential. Lately I only use U2 to experiment, im able to pull it a lot more. So much comeback potential and lots of ways to combo it, you just have to be on point to confirm hit/ punish whiffed moves.
IMO W ultra is not worth it, damage is so low, you can successfully land it and still lose the game.

My thoughts exactly.

Dontdodat · 2014-07-25T01:58:37.000Z

I don’t know, a fully stocked W still does a third on its own, which is decent I think.

larissa777 · 2014-07-25T02:51:07.000Z

It is decent, but honestly… When someone use W against me, i have no fear. By the time you they get full charged W, they are already dead, so the comeback for them becomes less unlikely. On the other hand i can press and i dont fear doing a mistake, i can take 2 mid charged W and i m still good…
Again just my opinion for now.

Carnage_AU · 2014-07-25T03:05:50.000Z

Will Smith:

I can’t help but notice that you never list a matchup where you would exclusively pick U2. I’m not sure I agree with that notion, especially against characters like Ryu, Sagat, Akuma, Rose etc.

But you did say this is your personal opinion, so I have to respect that.

Yeah thats true … Ryu, Sagat, Akuma you could go U2 depending on the style/skill level of opponent.
If I play an Ryu/Akuma that just fireballs/teleports all day then yeah I would pick U2.

Personally I like to have the option of U1 at my disposal as then they would have to fear fireballing but also eating a damaging combo.

I’m interested to see any of your guys ultra choices for each MU so chuck em up

HNIC_Mike · 2014-07-25T07:49:10.000Z

when making your choice, also consider the different things that each ultra can punish

they are both 7 frame start up, but U1 reaches farther during that initial 7 frames. U1 punishes certain sweeps and other blocked normals or low forward fireball strings that U2 cant. U2 obviously has more overall range, but for that first 7 U1 reaches further

i’ll pick double if a character has a fireball and a commonly used tool that U1 can also punish

jalapNo · 2014-07-25T10:55:18.000Z

Carnage_AU:

Ultra double isn’t mean to be attractive for the damage factor. Its there as a deterrent for options but also as serves as a tool for damage.

For example, against Dictator, I would use W ultra. With W Ultra stocked, he can’t EX Psycho Crusher, teleport or devils reverse, but also if he’s low on health, I can kill him with a BnB into U1.
If I would only use U1 in that matchup then he would escape pressure with a slap on the wrist.
If I would only use U2 in that matchup then it would be harder for me to convert into big damage.

Rolento’s W ultra takes a 75% damage reduction so I think its fair trade to lose lets say 100 damage for limiting your opponents choices.

This is all personal preference so you may be more comfortable using another ultra choice.

I say we figure out the best Ultra choices for each matchup as Rolento can use any advantage he can get.
Let me know your thoughts on the below:

Abel - U1 pNo: U1 - the roll is difficult to snag via U2 (it’s doable, not practical).
Adon - U1 (U2 is not reliable as an anti-tooth move) pNo: U2, jaguar kicks, jaguar tooth (If cornered, he can use EX/HK tooth to escape, Auto-correct U2 to catch)
Akuma - W pNo: U2 (Mad fireballs)
Boxer - U1 (potentially W to catch EX moves that escape your crossup pressure? needs some testing) pNo: U1- Rush punches, depending on distance would most likely have to be pre-buffered for U2 to land
Blanka - W pNo: U2 - Punish all da balls~ (Never tested it, but perhaps U2 will pull Blanka out of his U1/U2 when going for chip?)
CViper - U1 pNo: U1 or U2 - Both have strengths in the matchup, be it combo from stinger -> U2, or just plain combo into U1. I use U2 since Burn kicks are negative and will always be caught if the bitch superjumps.
Cammy - U1 pNo: Most definitely U1. The likelihood of hitting U2 in this match up is so low, and a lot of Cammy’s specials are airborn, so hitting the stinger on a lot of them won’t allow you to combo.
ChunLi - U1 (W if you play an extremely defensive chunli who fireballs alot) pNo: U2 all the way. There isn’t a Chun on this planet who doesn’t want to use Kikkouken, and being she has one of the higher frames in her jumps, SUPER EASY to nab her landing frames with U2.
Cody - U1 pNo: U2 - No rocks, no jumps, no meaties on your wake-up.
Dan - U1 pNo: U1 - no debate
Decapre - U1 pNo: U1, no debate
DeeJay - W (Fireball is tough to hit with U2 but it acts more as a deterrant to stop DeeJay from controlling space with fireballs) pNo: U2 - No fireballs, no silly jumping knees (so active, much frames), and no sobats.
Dhalsim - U1 / W (unsure yet … haven’t played this match much) pNo: U2 - No fireballs, no teleports, no instant yoga sniper/drills/mummy.
Dudley - U1 pNo: U1 - no question
EHonda - W pNo: U2 - Punishing jumps, headbutts, meter building hands/oicho
El Fuerte - U1 pNo: U1 - I use U2, but that’s because I like pissing off Fuertes with something that limits their run time
Elena - U1 pNo: U1 - I haven’t explored the match-up enough to argue U2, but I will say, U1 guaranteeing the damage is a big seller. Not too mention, a lot of Elenas choose U2/Healing, and they do it off of hard knockdowns, so they will cancel their healing to make you waste your U2. #notworthit
ERyu - W pNo: U2 hands down. Fireballs, teleports, meterless jump-ins - Limiting ERyu’s options is never a bad thing, but U1 doesn’t provide that same level of frustration on the opponent.
Feilong - U1 pNo: U1 without a doubt. Chickenwing CAN be hit with U2, so can Rekkas, but both are more stress than they are worth. It’s a much more comfortable match using U1.
Gen - U1 **pNo: Sweet baby jesus U1. Gen is a god damn wizard and he knows it. **
Gouken - W **pNo: U2 - Gouken’s fireball is amazing, but still punishable since a lot of Gouken’s are looking to maximize damage by hurling the random AA fireballs to catch you jumping. Ex Fireball, so damn easy to punish. His rush punch is slow, his divekicks/parrys all get blown up on the landing frames. The one thing he can do is normal jump to Tatsu with/without meter. **
Guile - W **pNo: U2 - Guile’s are like Goukens/Chuns, they WILL sonic boom at all ranges. They will jump, and they will try everything in their power to overhead you if you can/can’t block. The one thing I know you need to be aware of is spacing and the little upside down kicky thingy (I don’t know his move names). The big thing now that Guile get’s counter hit from having a Sonic Boom on the screen, you get more damage regardless. **
Guy - U1 pNo: U1 - Guy is the one character I’m always missing U2 on since he’s a little dickhead.
Hakan - U1 pNo: U1 if you don’t want to punish his oiling up or his ridiculous slow jump.
Hugo - W pNo: Character Select - Sagat
Ibuki - U1 pNo: U1 - I haven’t had the chance to play this match-up very much, but in my mind, U2 is probably worthless.
Juri - U1 pNo: U1 all day
Ken - U1 pNo: U2 - Fireballs, Meter/Meterless jumps, baited uppercuts
Dictator - W pNo: U1 is superior to U2 in this match-up. You can use U2 (I primarily use it on Devil’s Reverse or the occasional jump-in, but you’re missing a lot more opportunities for damage since he’s constantly airborn.
Makoto - U1 **pNo: U1 - Very few opportunities to hit U2. **
Oni - W pNo: U2 - Mad fireballs, airdashes, slashes
Poison - W (Fireball is very tough to hit with U2 but if you can stop her fireballing for even a second or two, this is a major advantage … she’s a bitch to fight) pNo: U1/U2 are even in Utility. Poison’s don’t respect U2, so there is a lot of opportunity to execute every time she turns her back to the screen (initial start-up animation of fireball).
Rolento - W pNo: Reminds me of Seth:Seth matches. It’s worth more to use U1 in the match, but U2 is still doable since all blocked rolls are punished
Rose - U1 pNo: U2 - Fireballs, jumpins, spirals, no U2+Focus Attack trap when cornered
Rufus - U1 pNo: U1 - No height restriction for DK makes it pretty much impossible.
Ryu - W pNo: U2
Sagat - W pNo: U2 - MAD FIREBALLS
Sakura - W pNo: This is a match-up where she doesn’t need to throw fireballs, so U1 is normally going to work better for the match
Seth - U1 pNo: Sweet baby Jesus, even W is worth it with Seth’s low life (compensates for the scaling), but U2 destroys his soul.
Thawk - W pNo: U1 has more opportunity, but U2 gets in on occasion.
Claw - U1 (maybe W ultra if you’re game to catch wall dives) pNo: U1 has more opportunity, but U2 can catch backflips and whiffed wall dives
Yang - U1 pNo: There’s no reason NOT to use U1, unless you just like hitting the Ultras like you find Unicorns.
Yun - U1 pNo: See Yang
Zangeif - W pNo: U2 - Lariat, Greenhand, jump-ins, punish U2 when he spins on the floor, blow up Red/Focus.

Just put my 2 cents in there, but then again, I’ve been in HK for the past 2 weeks and am going in cold to the tournament tomorrow. #rustttttttt

Just_Orion · 2014-07-25T22:10:47.000Z

Are you going to use Rolento in tourney? Good luck man! I’d love to see some videos!

TheFreshPrince · 2014-07-27T18:17:43.000Z

jalapNo:

Carnage_AU:

Ultra double isn’t mean to be attractive for the damage factor. Its there as a deterrent for options but also as serves as a tool for damage.

For example, against Dictator, I would use W ultra. With W Ultra stocked, he can’t EX Psycho Crusher, teleport or devils reverse, but also if he’s low on health, I can kill him with a BnB into U1.
If I would only use U1 in that matchup then he would escape pressure with a slap on the wrist.
If I would only use U2 in that matchup then it would be harder for me to convert into big damage.

Rolento’s W ultra takes a 75% damage reduction so I think its fair trade to lose lets say 100 damage for limiting your opponents choices.

This is all personal preference so you may be more comfortable using another ultra choice.

I say we figure out the best Ultra choices for each matchup as Rolento can use any advantage he can get.
Let me know your thoughts on the below:

Abel - U1 pNo: U1 - the roll is difficult to snag via U2 (it’s doable, not practical).
Adon - U1 (U2 is not reliable as an anti-tooth move) pNo: U2, jaguar kicks, jaguar tooth (If cornered, he can use EX/HK tooth to escape, Auto-correct U2 to catch)
Akuma - W pNo: U2 (Mad fireballs)
Boxer - U1 (potentially W to catch EX moves that escape your crossup pressure? needs some testing) pNo: U1- Rush punches, depending on distance would most likely have to be pre-buffered for U2 to land
Blanka - W pNo: U2 - Punish all da balls~ (Never tested it, but perhaps U2 will pull Blanka out of his U1/U2 when going for chip?)
CViper - U1 pNo: U1 or U2 - Both have strengths in the matchup, be it combo from stinger -> U2, or just plain combo into U1. I use U2 since Burn kicks are negative and will always be caught if the bitch superjumps.
Cammy - U1 pNo: Most definitely U1. The likelihood of hitting U2 in this match up is so low, and a lot of Cammy’s specials are airborn, so hitting the stinger on a lot of them won’t allow you to combo.
ChunLi - U1 (W if you play an extremely defensive chunli who fireballs alot) pNo: U2 all the way. There isn’t a Chun on this planet who doesn’t want to use Kikkouken, and being she has one of the higher frames in her jumps, SUPER EASY to nab her landing frames with U2.
Cody - U1 pNo: U2 - No rocks, no jumps, no meaties on your wake-up.
Dan - U1 pNo: U1 - no debate
Decapre - U1 pNo: U1, no debate
DeeJay - W (Fireball is tough to hit with U2 but it acts more as a deterrant to stop DeeJay from controlling space with fireballs) pNo: U2 - No fireballs, no silly jumping knees (so active, much frames), and no sobats.
Dhalsim - U1 / W (unsure yet … haven’t played this match much) pNo: U2 - No fireballs, no teleports, no instant yoga sniper/drills/mummy.
Dudley - U1 pNo: U1 - no question
EHonda - W pNo: U2 - Punishing jumps, headbutts, meter building hands/oicho
El Fuerte - U1 pNo: U1 - I use U2, but that’s because I like pissing off Fuertes with something that limits their run time
Elena - U1 pNo: U1 - I haven’t explored the match-up enough to argue U2, but I will say, U1 guaranteeing the damage is a big seller. Not too mention, a lot of Elenas choose U2/Healing, and they do it off of hard knockdowns, so they will cancel their healing to make you waste your U2. #notworthit
ERyu - W pNo: U2 hands down. Fireballs, teleports, meterless jump-ins - Limiting ERyu’s options is never a bad thing, but U1 doesn’t provide that same level of frustration on the opponent.
Feilong - U1 pNo: U1 without a doubt. Chickenwing CAN be hit with U2, so can Rekkas, but both are more stress than they are worth. It’s a much more comfortable match using U1.
Gen - U1 **pNo: Sweet baby jesus U1. Gen is a god damn wizard and he knows it. **
Gouken - W **pNo: U2 - Gouken’s fireball is amazing, but still punishable since a lot of Gouken’s are looking to maximize damage by hurling the random AA fireballs to catch you jumping. Ex Fireball, so damn easy to punish. His rush punch is slow, his divekicks/parrys all get blown up on the landing frames. The one thing he can do is normal jump to Tatsu with/without meter. **
Guile - W **pNo: U2 - Guile’s are like Goukens/Chuns, they WILL sonic boom at all ranges. They will jump, and they will try everything in their power to overhead you if you can/can’t block. The one thing I know you need to be aware of is spacing and the little upside down kicky thingy (I don’t know his move names). The big thing now that Guile get’s counter hit from having a Sonic Boom on the screen, you get more damage regardless. **
Guy - U1 pNo: U1 - Guy is the one character I’m always missing U2 on since he’s a little dickhead.
Hakan - U1 pNo: U1 if you don’t want to punish his oiling up or his ridiculous slow jump.
Hugo - W pNo: Character Select - Sagat
Ibuki - U1 pNo: U1 - I haven’t had the chance to play this match-up very much, but in my mind, U2 is probably worthless.
Juri - U1 pNo: U1 all day
Ken - U1 pNo: U2 - Fireballs, Meter/Meterless jumps, baited uppercuts
Dictator - W pNo: U1 is superior to U2 in this match-up. You can use U2 (I primarily use it on Devil’s Reverse or the occasional jump-in, but you’re missing a lot more opportunities for damage since he’s constantly airborn.
Makoto - U1 **pNo: U1 - Very few opportunities to hit U2. **
Oni - W pNo: U2 - Mad fireballs, airdashes, slashes
Poison - W (Fireball is very tough to hit with U2 but if you can stop her fireballing for even a second or two, this is a major advantage … she’s a bitch to fight) pNo: U1/U2 are even in Utility. Poison’s don’t respect U2, so there is a lot of opportunity to execute every time she turns her back to the screen (initial start-up animation of fireball).
Rolento - W pNo: Reminds me of Seth:Seth matches. It’s worth more to use U1 in the match, but U2 is still doable since all blocked rolls are punished
Rose - U1 pNo: U2 - Fireballs, jumpins, spirals, no U2+Focus Attack trap when cornered
Rufus - U1 pNo: U1 - No height restriction for DK makes it pretty much impossible.
Ryu - W pNo: U2
Sagat - W pNo: U2 - MAD FIREBALLS
Sakura - W pNo: This is a match-up where she doesn’t need to throw fireballs, so U1 is normally going to work better for the match
Seth - U1 pNo: Sweet baby Jesus, even W is worth it with Seth’s low life (compensates for the scaling), but U2 destroys his soul.
Thawk - W pNo: U1 has more opportunity, but U2 gets in on occasion.
Claw - U1 (maybe W ultra if you’re game to catch wall dives) pNo: U1 has more opportunity, but U2 can catch backflips and whiffed wall dives
Yang - U1 pNo: There’s no reason NOT to use U1, unless you just like hitting the Ultras like you find Unicorns.
Yun - U1 pNo: See Yang
Zangeif - W pNo: U2 - Lariat, Greenhand, jump-ins, punish U2 when he spins on the floor, blow up Red/Focus.

Just put my 2 cents in there, but then again, I’ve been in HK for the past 2 weeks and am going in cold to the tournament tomorrow. #rustttttttt

Only matches I would change to U2 from you list are Hugo (lol) and Dictator.

Dictator because U2 punishes his weird jump arc better than U1, and it can discourage him from whiffing DR mid screen and easily punishes EX PC, teleports, whiffed scissors, and headstomp.

Hugo because once U2 is stocked he can’t really do anything without risking 480 damage thanks to how slow everything he does is.

Carnage_AU · 2014-07-29T13:35:06.000Z

Awesome list, if I was more confident in hitting U2 as an AA (main thing I worry about is empty jumps ) there would be less W’s and more U2s

How’d you go in the tournament? Chuck some vids up!

jalapNo · 2014-07-29T22:57:30.000Z

No vids, and I ended up using Seth because I played Rufus/Juri (both de_stroy Rolento). Ended up losing to some mediocre HK players, but in the end got some good games after with guys like humanbomb, dakou, RB (which is why I’m going to recommend you keep an eye out for him. He’s a Taiwanese Rolento/Hugo player that used to play Guy).

Overall, U2 did keep a lot of people honest here (you can also catch empty jumps, just has to be earlier to catch the small window of landing frames), but overall, the play style in HK/Asia is significantly different than the US. Not to say it’s superior, but it’s very fundamental based. They are quick to adapt and aren’t predictable.

The focus here is better than it is in the US.

Ahgama · 2014-08-04T11:54:18.000Z

Hey jalapno, eff yo U2 through my sonic booms lol.

I think W is valid in some matchups where U2 isn’t an obvious choice (fireball characters etc). I always find myself in situations where I wish I had the other ultra. Everytime I land ex circles without U1, sad face. Everytime I land ex air-raid without U2, sad face.

jalapNo · 2014-08-04T21:58:12.000Z

Lol, I’m guessing that’s you, Cord. In your defense, I did happen to have a couple of energy drinks before you showed up.

Agreed, W Ultra isn’t too terrible. In fact, with how the ERyu match-up is developing, W Ultra is seeming much more appropriate for the match-up (Fireball deterrent + Combo DaMaGe), but I feel a strong urge to still U2 everything about ERyu.

Ahgama · 2014-08-05T09:59:50.000Z

Yes it is I. I guess you still have to consider that even if you increase the chances to land Ultra, whenever it leaves them with some health, the same situation with non-W Ultra would have killed. I’m still torn. I see U1 actually has some anti-air ability and it’s one of the only things Rolento can do to YOLO through stuff in place of a DP. I think heavy fireball characters is straight up U2 material though. The damage is too ridiculous and it scares the bejesus out of them. Even though U2 is difficult to land through Sonic Boom, if Guile ever messes up a flash kick it’s free U2 right there.