cjaycr
10021
Yeah, this thread lacks constructive criticism though. People always gonna be rolling up in here spouting all kinds of nonsense until we correct them proper. Too much “You’re wrong because I’m right” going on.
I agree with this list, I still would like to see some more results for Firebrand but whatever
I would also replace Hawkeye with Wolverine, he’s just been tearing teams up lately (Pr Balrog, J Wong and Noel Brown)
To have Wesker anywhere outside of the top 5 at this stage in the game is insane looking at you Soviet Afro
Vergil higher than Magneto…wow.
Thats a testament to the balance of this game compared to Vanilla. In Vanilla everyone was basically just agreeing with everybody on everything except for like how good Viper was or how overrated Wolvie and Phoenix were. We have a lot of debates in this game about who is better than who and what not.
I don’t agree with Nissan’s list. We need a tier list based off real results and calculated averages. Wesker should be at the top, even good players switch their main characters out to play Dark Wesker in the grand finals. Fact is Wesker has been used among the top 8 scoring better results than all other characters. Also, Hawkeye has been getting great results too and is probably the best new character. Iron Fist isn’t as bad as people think. Zero and Viper players have been scoring high sometimes, but its very inconsistent.
Xstatic
10026
Don’t forget about Wolverine. He’s still a beast.
That is the whole point. It is an opinionated list it isnt suppose to be a universal list for this thread by any means whatsoever. You cant get anywhere in discussion without disagreement.
I have doubts about Vergil and Strider… but thats a solid list indeed.
Okay…
Major tournaments wins = S Tier:
Wolverine(2)=most consistent character = best character in the game
Wesker
Iron Fist
Spencer
Akuma
Local Ranbats/Minors wins =
Zero(5)
Firebrand(a lot)
Ryu(a lot)
Hawkeye(a lot)
Dante(3)
Vergil(4)
Nova(4)
oh wait this isn’t very useful as this is not a tier list but simply a win/loss record. Dante never won a major in Vanilla, she hulk won a BUNCH. Are you seriously gonna say “herpaderp, Vanilla She Hulk>Dante in tier placements”? If you answer yes, i’m petitioning SRK for an option to block posters.
Also I like Nissan’s list, someone finally not underrating Vergil
Hawkeye has a ton of bad matchups and is relatively weak when pressured up close. He has a great keep away game, but all of the top 5 have ways to get in and open him up.
Wesker and Spencer have the ability to close the gap on Hawkeye and open him up. Strider has much more bullshit than Hawkeye.
Zero, Viper, Wesker, Dante, Dark Phoenix for top 5. (No order)
Strider, Magneto, Spencer, Wolverine, Firebrand for the remainder of the top 10. (No order)
Doom, Dorm, Vergil, Hawkeye, Taskmaster, and Trish are all really close, but I feel are just out of that range.
I agree with some points, but a lot of it is heavily theory based. In practice a lot of his “average” stuff is very effective and you see that stuff blow up strong players regularly. Especially in the mixup department. Thing about his overhead is that the startup animation is fairly similar to his c.H which of course hits with assist backup this can lead to an effective low/high, just as well you can kara c.H into his command grab. Zip + Assist into j.H/S is a simple mixup but this can be extremely ambiguous depending on screen/character positioning to the point where even the Spencer player wont know if he’s gonna crossup or not (imo this is a lot more effective than a common air dasher’s left/rights). As for his low, it’s not pixie fast, but I’d say it is fast enough for opposition
His assists (air and ground zip) aren’t essential like arrow projectiles and whatnot, but the universal assist nerf definitely gives his assists some added value
Of course other simple factors contribute to him being a strong character. Air zip interrupting actions is something that people don’t pay attention to much. You’d initially think he gets walked over by characters like Task and Hawk with their aerial zoning antics, but if you’re popping them out of their air specials frequently then they can’t play their game comfortably. And air zip covers all of the important “zoning” angles so to speak
Oh and Bionic Arm, always a threat
These are just a few things along with his damage (Averaging at 900k damage with 1 bar solo is nice) that imo will always keep him in high A tier at the very least
That is so incredibly situational. You need a specific team and you need to play him on point (which hardly anyone does, but hey what do I know?) I didn’t think anyone would have latched onto that notion so firmly, otherwise I would never have posted that shit.
Wesker has a 1 frame grab and a better dash wich is leagues better than a slow ass overhead that loses to chickenblock (oh and Wesker can command grab it on block, other characters get a free ground throw now).
He does have one of the best level 3 supers and Rhino charge is still godly as a DHC. Given the rest of his tools, he’s still head and shoulders better than Spencer.
Also, Spencer has pretty shit normals on the ground, especially compared to Wesker.
All this “Spencer is Godlike” shit is coming from people who just don’t know.
Tier lists based on people being too lazy to actually learn a character’s weaknesses are kinda useless.
Dahbomb
10033
Well then we don’t need a thread for that then.
Anyway Nissan’s top 10 list is solid. IMO Magneto deserves top 10 spot somewhere in there.
TOP 20 IMO (no order)
Zero, Wesker, Viper, Firebrand, Dante, Magneto, Doom, Dormammu, Vergil, Strider, Spencer, Felicia, Wolverine, X-23, Taskmaster, Hawkeye, Nova, Trish, Amaterasu, Phoenix.
That’s a lot of killers and the shocking thing was that I actually had trouble squeezing Phoenix into the top 20 for the roster.
Doesn’t matter. Still a tracking teleport. The only time that kind of shit matters is when scrubs don’t teleport properly(aka with cover) then complain.
lmk what these post combo mix ups are that are actually solid mix ups. no, high time into air grab isn’t a solid mix up.
and lmk when you find a solid mix up on incoming chars in corner
This so much.
Seriously why the fuck is anyone raw teleporting with well… ANYONE.
For some reason for some people it only applies to Vergil.
combo ending with Lunar Phase or Helm Splitter>DT>Call Wesker>Airdash Forward J.H
combo ending with a knockdown> Call assist(Wesker works best again)>teleport for a 50/50 mixup
incoming mixup= dash 5H. Can cross under or not depending on your timing. all you need to wreck shit
Dahbomb
10038
How many do you need? Combo ending with Upper Slash after a ground bounce has been used up leads into a roll situation where you can catch the back roll with teleport M + assist, front roll with Teleport L + assist. Combo ending with a simple j.L puts them in air tech, where you can go into MHS/MMH or air throw like Wesker. Combo ending with a second wall bounce followed up with a teleport is a 50/50 air tech left/right mix up. Choose with Trick L or M. Hard knockdown into Round Trip mix up also works really well. He has more than this.
I also don’t quote me on this yet but I think Vergil’s dash goes through characters like X-23/Wesker dashes while they are rolling.
Again… how many do you need? Dash under launcher is a disjointed anti-air hit box that they have to guess whether it’s hitting front or back. Works with st.H too, both can be chained into Upper slash series on block if needed. Round Trip against in coming characters is a solid mix up they have to deal with because RT goes off screen in a corner situation. Jump above Starfall cross up sort of works. The usual air loop/throw mix up of Wesker. Teleport mix up with Spencer Slant shot assist works too in corner because Vergil can teleport behind opponents in corner. He has more than this.
These I would all consider solid mix ups. Most of these have been used in live matches. I didn’t even cover mix ups that use his more powerful tools in DT or Swords. Didn’t cover Judgment Cut/Rapid Slash mix ups because people are still pringles to Rapid Slash even at this stage.
I think Spencer is a great character (Top 10 for sure), but he isn’t godlike. If people are going by tourney results to place his tiering, they have to remember that excellent players are showing him off. I think he’s one of those characters that really benefits from strong fundamentals, and that’s what’s skewing perceptions a bit. Unless he’s in the hands of someone capable of pulling Combofiends, he has issues without assists to back him up.
[LEFT]How do we all feel about Iron Man again? I’m just think he is soooo solid in this game.[/LEFT]
