9981

Justin was right about sentinal in the previous game alot of ppl forget that sent got hit with the nerf bat at the beginning of the game if not he would prob still be one of the best chars in the game. He had hyper armor on his normals and the most health in the game at 1.3 mil. This allowed sent players to have to get hit 2 to 3 times in order to die. Also he could easily kill any char in the game depending on how much meter that he had. Remember the game and the sent that justin was talking about b4 all these crazy comments start coming up cause if the original sent was still in this game he would easily be top 5 now.

9982

I don’t agree with that at all even with 1.5 mil health Sent would still be B+ tier at best because his fucking huge hitbox and the fact that he is the character most susceptible to air throws in the game. Those two major flaws gave him some of the worst match-ups in all of Vanilla.

9983

Original Sent would be in the same place now, UI love the dude and will continue to play him as more than just a assist but the character is a pretty much just a assist right now and even if he had 1.3 Mil.

9984

Chrisis defeated Flocker in the winners bracket, but lost to Flocker in the losers bracket. So in the end Flocker got the one up over Chrisis.

9985

That’s not a bad thing; someone has to be top 5. What difference does it make who’s in there, provided that they aren’t genuinely destroying other characters with inherently good matchups?

9986

I might as well explain my top 5

Since Vanilla, I’ve always seen Wesker and Zero are very similar characters in terms of their basic matchup options and their angles of approach. They both have fast ground zoning tools and the ability to fire near instant air projectiles at a 45 degree angle. Along with teleports for mixups, both of them have the tools to damn near always dictate where the fight is going to take place, forcing the opponent to fight their game. If they choose to fight from the outside, you will die trying to come in so long as they don’t feel like making a mistake unless you have a teleport yourself or some method of air control.

Spencer with an assist that covers the floor is just a sheer monster. He may have dropped somewhat now that he can’t mash like a retard after ziplining, but the threats are still there. Unlike the rest of the 5, he’s pretty much forced to chase down opponents. But take into consideration the options he has when you inevitably touch the floor, you’ve got multiple 50/50 mixup options you’re going to have to deal with, all essentially leading to death (or a lot of damage in the best case scenario for you).

Dr. Doom is probably the inclusion in my list most would disagree with. I think there’s a lot of potential in this character that we’re not using and the only guy who’s showing us flashes of it is Clockw0rk. His keepaway is effective but not painful like Zero and Wesker’s, but it’s good enough for him to force a lockdown situation with an assist leading to a 50/50. every touch with him is also damn near guaranteed death with day one combos. But what really makes him scary is his ability to confirm a hit into those full combos from pretty much anywhere on the screen in almost any given situation.

Hawkeye is on this list for a lot of reasons. He probably has the best pure keepaway on the ground and will force you to get hurt while trying to chase him down. Provided you make it to half screen distance from him, he’s got half screen normals which can be canceled into safe options. Furthermore, gimlet is a tool which shuts down a lot of important matchup options with many characters. While his damage output isn’t anywhere near the other 4, he’s a character who’s going to get at least half his damage from playing out the matchup and not so much from his combos.

9987

^From what I’ve personally experienced, I actually agree with that top 5.

Dorm,Magneto,Viper,Dante and Strider are just underneath that to me.

9988

my rough tier list
High/God tier

Zero… no questions as of right now
Viper… no questions as of right now
Firebrand…this character makes me ask capcom "WTF were you thinking"
Dante… still the swiss army knife of the cast
Dormammu… dark dormammu rises
Magneto… the old man still has it
Doom… great at making average teams better
Hawkeye…Good matchups
Strider… the assist that neutralizes so many matchups, great anchor too boot too
Trish … Great matchups and she does above average damage now too boot

Mid-tier
mostly everyone else

Low tier
Tron Hsien-ko She-hulk

Fail tier
Phoenix Wright

9989

Vergil is the Dudley of ultimate.

There, i said it, Vergil is the Dudley of ultimate. Not to say hes bad, because hes not, but just the fact that every one(including justin) was saying that he was top 5 where in fact hes just mid tier. I know that in DT a lot of his weakness are resolved, but that does not change the fact that he is lacking in many areas. Its a shame because i really wanted him to be kinda broken.

On a separate note, i think we should have a “general consensus” or “top players” tier list in the OP. Because, lest be real, it has been 200 pages, and we still have nothing to present to people as far as tier lists go.

9990

It already happened in Cable & Deadpool when he acquired Deadpool’s healing factor. He was able to simultaneously read the minds of everyone on the planet while fighting the Silver Surfer (and shattering the surfer’s indestructible board) while also keeping a space station that was miles away levitating telekinetically… he was kind of broken.

Oh, uh tiers… I’m starting to think Hulk is a little better than I thought, I guess…

9991

I agree with most of the rest of your post, but I don’t play Viper (MODOK, of course), and I have very little doubt that she’s top tier. But that doesn’t mean she’s an auto-win. Which has been proven time and time again.

Marlinpie may have some of the best execution in the country, but he also is an incredible not-blocking monster. Almost as bad as me.

9992

Vergil cant be mid tier with a teleport that good. Its probably the best teleport in the game in terms of recovery, the directions it can go and its speed.

I dont think Vergils S tier, but I do think hes top 20, and if you’re top 20 in this game, you probably have something broken.

9993

Without trying to find a specific letter grade tier just yet, I’m curious what some of the specialists (or anyone with a broad spectrum of character knowledge) thinks about some of the lesser-discussed characters that seem to be much stronger in Ultimate, whether due to their own buffs, or changes to the engine or other characters. Examples:

Morrigan- I’m in love with this bitch, and between what I’ve seen and what I know she can do, Whorri is REALLY strong in this game. A tier? I dunno relative to others, but she’s extremely powerful with the right support and just might be A or better. Time will tell.

Joe- I’ve never used this guy, but as I watch Dieminion and as I play lamer and lamer (Doom!), he seems like he has some really nice tools that I feel like I could abuse. He might just be a low tier hero, or is it possible Joe’s really good in the right team context?

Arthur- I don’t know much about Arthur other than that he’s got a great assist that’s generally considered “not having Arthur on your team” for, and can be dangerous in lvl3 XF with meter(who isn’t?). I was watching a stream archive and Noel Brown said Arthur was slept on and is upper mid at worst. Love em or hate em, Noel plays a LOT of marvel and has many knowledgable friends, and I don’t think he was trolling. Might he have a point?

Tron- She sucks so bad now I feel like there’s got to be some kind of hidden thing we don’t know yet that will make 2012 “the summer of Tron” where we’re all like “remember when she was bottom?? HA!” Or I just have a runaway imagination.

Felicia/X23/Storm- the established “were good before, might be REALLY good now.” I believe fully Felicia is the real deal and could prove to be A at WORST, but are Storm and X living up to their respective hype? Strom seems like a so-so point, but such a great team asset with OTG THCs and just the damage boost from a DHC Hail Storm, and the face DHCs OUT of hail storm keep the hail on screen. So many teams where I think, “man, Storm would be sick here… bummer I don’t want to play Storm.”

Modok- regardless of how fast his highs or lows are, with the increased prevalence of TACs in Ult, if you’ve seen Flash Metroid do the TAC into appears-to-be-an-infinite-but-probably-isnt where he gets like 10 cubes and a Jamming bomb, that could be tier-increasing even if he’s shit on point (similar to Storm at 2 boosting a team’s power). Ive never even used Modok, but seeing that TAC shit made me take notice.

Iron Fist- He’s not old, I know, but wanted to say I think this low-tier-hero act from Justin is likely total bullshit. Someone with virtually guaranteed TODs on any clean hit and mega-fast high-lows with proper lockdown assists just seems really good. It would be like nobody gave a shit about Nova and was like, “wow, I can’t believe Combofiend is making this shitty character work!”

Anyway, just thinking out loud. Anyone agree, disagree, have any they’d add or subtract? Better than rehashing Wesker and Zero. Turns out they’re good, btw.

9994

Vergil teleport is the slowest tracking teleport in the game, also the recovery is very bad. Last time i checked top 20 is mid tier bro.

9995

Can someone please explain to me why there’s so much complaining about Wesker, but hardly any about Spencer? IMO the guy is just as good, and does similar things to a team.
-Ridiculous XF3 with easy TOD combos
-Good mixups with zipline, overhead, etc.
-Can function anywhere on a team
-1.05 million health
-Bionic Arm
-Great damage

9996

Well playing against him, it doesnt feel as though his teleport has any of those problems. Maybe frame data suggests otherwise, but I just find his teleporting way more unpredictable unlike Dantes and Dorms.

Top 20 isnt mid tier if the gaps between how broken each of the top 20 are, are so small. You compared him to dudley in SF4, who has no broken stuff really.

I agree with you that he might have been overhyped like dudley was, but there are alot of characters like that in this game right now. Dr strange was probably the biggest offender.

9997

What? You wanna talk about wesker? Cool!
-1 mil health
-most damaging lvl 3 in the game
-non-tracking teleport L and H teleport put you at two different heights and lengths so it’s not predictible like dante’s

  • glasses buff makes an already hard hitting and fast character hit even harder and moves faster
    -with glasses off boosts the best x-factor in the game, 185% damage and 140% speed, now that’s easy TOD combos
    -Some of the absolute best normals in the game, all crouching attacks hit low and also work as an anti air, J.S hits all around him for some of the easiest cross-ups, incredibly sexy frame data. There is no reason that Wesker’s normal attacks should reach further than Strider’s sword normals but they do
    -1 frame command grab mixed with one of the fastest wave dashes
    -hyper combo gives him a buff (glasses) and randomly crosses up
    -assist can help anyone get easy high damage combos and set up unblockables
    -gun is a great zoning tool
    -reliable damage that never fails and is so easy a cave man can do it
    -glasses off damage on launcher is 115k I believe, that is just retarded damage output for a fast teleporting character with the amount of options and health that Wesker has.

At this point if you don’t have Wesker in your top 5, you are just in denial that an easy-mode character with such an obvious game plan can be so effective.

9998

It’s not really like this is a group project where we have to make a presentation on what we found to the rest of SRK when we’re done. Our understanding of the tiers in this game will continue to shuffle around while we figure out new stuff and tournaments show us high-level interactions between the characters.

That said, if you went by the general consensus in this thread of what people feel adamantly about, we’d have gigantic A and B Tiers. People are much more vocal about the characters they feel are being undervalued rather than wanting to shoot down someone elses’ character or go out on a limb and declare a character bad or overrated.

9999

Actually, speaking of Spencer there is something I think we should touch on, which from memory has not been mentioned at all in this thread and that is how damn good his slanted wire grapple assist is.
It not only functions incredibly well in combo extensions for much of the game’s cast but it’s one of if not the major reasons that on his side he is considered to be the best friend for…
Haggar- Spencer’s assist allows Haggar to set up tons of resets with hoodlum throw/piledriver and to combo after his OTG crouching :h: empty cancelled into pipe.
Nova- Spencer’s assist adds to his combo/reset potential as well as allowing Nova to set up a crumple state on his opponent which he is then free to capitalise on by using the opportunity to hard tag into someone else on his team, or by setting up a reset situation on the opponent, or he could just continue the combo after it.
Iron Fist (personal opinion, may be incorrect)- The assist not only allows Iron Fist additional combo ability, but it also allows him to pull the opponent back to the ground again during a rekka combo that has used his crumple meaning that Fist should be able to place his opponent into a crumple state twice in a single combo which he can then (much like Nova) take advantage of.

10000

Wesker is just a first order optimal strategy. With the changes to assists that people haven’t adjusted to, add Wesker samurai shot and you won’t have to worry about it. Haven’t adjusted to the changes in hitstun deterioration? Use Wesker, his combos are unaffected for the most part.

Once people get off the lazy boy, Wesker will fall in usage. Not only will people have gotten use to him and be able to beat him through experience, the better characters that require some effort beat Wesker imo.

Spencer’s diagonal slant shot that leaves you standing is stupid stupid good. Continue combo or go for a reset,