japanese dont play dat mahvel
Ehh…he said CvS2…not MvC2.
And no I don’t think U.S is on par with Japan at SF4.
I don’t keep up with SF4, but from what I saw at SBO / Gods Garden, it didn’t seem like players were having much of a problem with him.
Granted those were quite some time ago and I don’t know what’s been going on recently with SF4 in Japan.
My point was that there are plenty of players in Japan who can beat Daigo on a regular basis.
As Hecatom stated, Japan doesn’t play Marvel competitively, so it’s pretty useless to mention it.
And from what I saw at SB’s team tourney, Sanford and Vegita-x didn’t have much of a problem in single matches either until he played them in a longer set and put on a clinic. And if our tourneys were single elim, Justin wouldn’t dominate nearly as much as he does. Though if you don’t keep up with SF4 then I guess making points is going to end up pretty void.
And these players are who? The “top player”, Mago, for instance, beat him handily at Gods Garden and apparently fairly frequently earlier into SF4’s lifespan but now it seems Daigo rapes him pretty free whenever they play. Not really a back-and-forth anymore. The basic rule of Daigo that attracts a bunch of bottom-feeders and randoms to his name is basically:
Anybody can take a round.
Many can take a match.
Some can take a set.
Virtually nobody can take a FT10.
That is why he is such a problem, period, not just in one country or another.
Well, that and the fact that he is already a hell of a database of match-up and dynamic situational knowledge.
Japan is obviously better, so obviously he doesn’t beat people down as frequently as he does here.
mvc2 this year had the most japanese participants of any game. There were 6 players from japan that entered marvel. I can’t remember another time that many japanese players entered 1 game @ evo. Pretty sure SF4 only had 2 japanese player show up and that game is bran spankin new!
They play it competitively. Their low tier player is one of the best I’ve ever seen as far as low tier goes. He shined a whole new light on the american scene this year.
hread?Having a niche scene that competes and is dedicated does not mean that a game is played heavily in a certain region.
You can find a few western Vampire Savior and Virtua Fighter players who could probably go and hang with the Japanese, but is anyone gonna say those games are alive here? Some arcades in Japan still have Alpha 3 ranbats every few weeks. Does that mean the game isn’t dead competitively in the mainstream?
Those MvC2 players are less representative of a healthy Marvel scene in Japan and more of an indication of how crazy dedicated those guys are.
Also, saying that they had the most Japanese representation of any game doesn’t really mean much considering that there was almost NO Japanese presence at EVO this year except Daigo, Dan and Issei if you want to count him.
IDK the way i see it is until an american beats daigo japan is going to keep taking us lightly. Hell, they have more respect for EU players than they do us.
:bluu:
justin beat daigo 2 sets in sf4, sanford beat him as well, valle got daigo a few years back in 2 game iirc. 3s and st right? arturo beat daigo for money in sf4.
choi took out BAS in cvs2 2 years ago. Both choi\valle beat tokido’s cheap ass claw a few years back iirc in ST.
wolfe brothers placing top 8 @ sbo? it was pretty high especially for the US.
There are so many other instances of US beating top jap players.
i guess. we still aint up to par with them :razz:
Well, with SF4 Japan is ahead by a lot, the matches against the US are closer, but the difference in knowledge is vast and Justin and Marn have lost twice in the first round at local ranbats. Even with MvC2 when they tried their knowledge was ahead, it’s just that the US Storm/Sent teams were too consistent for Japan to beat.
Japan does have more information and they try to expand on that information. Actually, I wouldn’t say that it’s just Japan sharing information, it’s more that the US isn’t a community as a whole and not that many people play to get better, they play just to play. In the US, I see Empire Arcadia working together to improve, so it’s no surprise that they’re easily dominating the US SF4 scene. The best tournament to determine who’s the best in the US is EVO Worlds, but it’s who plays who that matters. Our best player losing to randoms in Japan just shows that their player base is much more solid/consistent and that the US still has a long way to go.
none of this would ever be settled until you choose 5 games, and at least two of the best japanese representatives for each game to come over, and they just have a straight up 6 hour or more casual session with some of the top american players, and see overall how the top u.s deal with the top japanese. i say casual because people get comfortable and get in their zone in casuals. sometimes tournament jitters can fuck shit up for a lot of people.
in my opinion.
sf4=they win
3s= they win
mvc2=we win of course
darkstalkers= cant say
tekken=right now they win of course
st=50/50
hnk=they win
umk3=mexicans and texans. lol
tvc=they win
vf= cant say. i dont know how dedicated the vf scene her really is. a lot of srk members front as dedicated fighting game players, and dont wanna admit to just being intermediate, and really aint that good.
kof= chinese, mexicans, and japanese. ask geese though. are the chinese above the mexicans right now?
samurai showdown=they win
in my opinion, regardless of those sets they took from japanese players at tournaments, i mean, lets be honest, they runnin shit. no big. its just games. shit aint payin my rent to win. just something to brag about on srk one day.
It’s like every good game, America ain’t winnin’. What are they doing that we aren’t? Do they all try to play exactly like each other like we do here, or does each player do their own thing effectively in any given situation? I think that could be the reason they beast…in EVERY game, US players are busy trying to play exactly like some top player, as if that’s the only way the game can be played. Probably why the top players are so hard to beat…you try to beat a dude with his own shit, and he’ll take you apart cus he knows where the flaws are.
Unfortunately Japan is better in SFIV, and as to why they are, I can’t begin to speculate. I just know no one in USA comes close to beating Justin Wong and Marn, but they can go to Japan and get aced by players who definitely aren’t household names. But oh well, I guess there is always Super Street Fighter IV.
I am more interested in knowing how traditionally America has stacked up against Japan in Tekken. I know for a fact they dominate VF free. Most America VF players can’t come close to doing what they do in Japan. The only time there was ever a definitively Tekken match against USA and Japan was at EVO 2k5, where the USA actually won. I know Korea is usually the best at Tekken, or considered the best at least. I just want to know if USA is usually better than Japan at Tekken. There are quite a few well known Japanese Tekken players like souten, Mainstreet Ryu, Tetsuo, and Noko, but there doesn’t seem to be the same numbers of known Tekken players in the Southeast, Norcal, and across the US.
hey we have mvc2 lets be happy with that guys, i mean fuck arcades are all but dead in america and we can roll there shit on 1 game. Im impressed by that, people in japan live in arcades.
so be content.
Par? Once SSF4 is released, we will be Birdie!
The only time in which I could say without hesitation when we were equal, if not better then Japan was during the early SFII years (Meaning World Warrior, Champion Edition, Hyper Fighting*), or the Golden Era Days. Outside of that, competition for SF dropped significantly within the USA after Super was released
Another game was Alpha 2, one in which the USA was hands down the better and far more dominant contender in here, if I remember correctly, someone did state that Valle went over to Japan at that time and ocved every top Alpha 2 player there, so that pretty much tells the tail.
In SF:IV currently, Japan is ahead w/out a doubt, unless we get a high magnitude of competition for this game like how it was in the early 90’s again, I don’t see us getting to that level again.
It’s not that we “can’t” be as good, it’s just that with little to no access to great competition, we have deteriorated. If our competition was just as good as it was back in it’s hay day, we would definitely be on par, if not possibly better.
However yeah, Japan’s competition is still strong, they have better access to their competitive players, and with this, more drive for top players to push themselves, not the same so much here in the US, where if you don’t live in a big city with strong competition, then your pretty much lucked out.
this is a really really good point.
Actually it’s unknown how well Japan was during the Golden Era. This was a time of no internet or match videos. The only indication that tomo and company were better is through Kuni who stated that there are few players in Japan on Tomo’s level. I’m not sure if this is what was literally said, or if this was miscommunicated over the years. If I were to take this literally, players is plural. This means at there were more than one player as good as Tomo. In America, as far as I know, there was only one Tomo. Even looking at Schaefer’s videos, he makes it seem that there is only one Tomo, and no one was at his level. So at the very least Japan had more than one tomo.
Big city doesn’t really bring in a higher player base. I live in Atlanta, a decent size city. There is tons of competition here as well, but will our player base ever reach Japan’s? Probably not. Why? Because there are factors like time. I am satisfied with the way I play Guile in SFIV, but I’d be fooling myself to believe I could hang with more well known Guile players around the world. There is a reason why Justin and Marn as they are. It isn’t that they are in NYC, it’s because they don’t work and have time to play SF all day.
This is the critical difference between the USA in Japan. If I wanted to play some of the best players in the country, I’d have to prep all year and hope I’d see them at a major or two. But my chance to play Justin Wong will come probably once or twice in a year. I guess I could spend tons of money travelling to majors where he is, but that’s really impractical. On top of that I don’t have the time to do that, as I work a full time job, and have other responsbilities.
Take someone like me and put me in Japan. If I want to play Mago, Daigo, and company, it’s just a quick train ride to the nearest arcade. I could play them everyday, or someone either at their level or close to it. I’d level up in SFIV so fast that way. Big cities have little to do with it. Being in a big city is no guarantee that you’ll level up. Even our best local talent usually have time to sit up in an apartment all day and just train up in a game. This makes a big difference, and has nothing to do with the city you live in.
darkstalkers is free for japan
Well here’s my two cents. As far as the top players go, Japan is slightly ahead of America (sf4 of course), but only by a little. Unfortunately, as far as “the average player” goes, Japan is considerably ahead of America, and this is what really hurts us. Because of this, the top players can’t get as much good competition as in Japan, and can’t level up as fast. Top players in Japan still semi-regularly just lose to guys you’ve probably never even heard of because there’s a smaller gap between their top tier players and their average guys. That’s the kind of valuable experience that the top players just don’t get in America.
Also yeah, Japan rapes DS, for serious.