103

Any old videos of your old play?

104

There should be a video of me vs Joe soon

105

I found out that a close cMP links into cLP, cMK e sLK if the oponent is crouching. In the same condition, it links into XNDL on Alex, Chun Li, Dudley, Ibuki, Q, Urien, Yang and Yun. It is much hard to do it middle screen than in the corner though.

Not really useful since crouching MP is both down and foward parry but hell I did it accidentally in a match and thought it was cool.

106

Can anyone tell me the the Pros and Cons of Twelve?

107

Pros: None

Cons: Everything

108

Pros: Superb mobility (air dashes, backdash, crouch walk, superjump, wall cling, EX Dive) and okay stun damage.

Cons: Truly pitiful defense, attack damage and combo ability.

109

This guy. :tup:

110

sounds like a good pick for Vega player :slight_smile:

111

Pros: He has decent pokes and a good runaway game. He is a troll character, meaning you have to hit and fly, get a lot of throws in, frustrate your opponent.

Cons: …that’s all he can do. No (convenient) damaging combos, weak stamina(same amount as Chun probably), arguably the most difficult character to be really good with because he requires so much effort just for bits and bits of damage. Yamazaki is probably the closest to have played a “perfect Twelve”, and even he’s only gotten so far…

112

Pros: Pokes, mixups, mobility, range. XCOPY allows for some Shang-Tsunging, taunt allows for some Reptiling. Also he just looks cool.

Cons: Literally everything else. Damage sucks, combos are tough, and has bad stamina. XFLAT is hard to use effectively (although damned if I’m not still using it).

And much more, I’m sure. Still, it’s a great challenge to try and hold your own with him, which is fun, and once you win with him it’s very satisfying.

113

Getting back in the mood for 3S thanks to 3SO’s imminent arrival. Saw the match-up list/post and disagreed on a few small things.

vs Elena - As someone who mains Elena and Twelve, I strongly believe this match is 3-7. Yes, b.HK is that much of a pain, in addition to the fact that she has baby Chun properties, the ability to stupid damage off of c.MP, the 3rd best kara throw in the game (I think…below Q and Chun?), and…well, b.HK. Get counter hit with that a few times and, considering your game consists of pokes and throws and that one move beats both, you’ll be facing even more of an uphill battle than you thought you would be when you picked Twelve in the first place.

vs Makoto - It’s 2-8. I’ll hold to that until I die. She wins air-to-air 19 out of 20 times, and the last place you want to be against her is on the ground…but you don’t have a choice. If someone picks Makoto against me, depending on how badly I get ruled I usually pick Elena next round. That said, you get her in a corner or you die, and then you poke and throw and poke until you either win or get karakusa’d/fukiyage’d (whatever her anti-air special is).

vs Oro. I agree with the tier list. 3-7. There’s a pretty good Oro here that both plays smart and plays the match-up, and I still feel like I have a chance. Unfortunately, though, not a good one. I almost recommend getting a life lead, running away, and letting that little troll come to you. (EX/HP) NDL hits him if he does EX projectile and you can still block if it’s early enough and far enough away. If it’s a normal one, just walk under it. Or NDL and eat it if there’s a good life difference. Heck, you can go under it if you time it correctly/get lucky. If he does double-jump shenanigans, just HP the freak. Like nearly every other match, though, he’ll beat you senseless if he gets in.

vs Ibuki. I agree that it’s 4-6. Life difference is nice, and she’s not THAT scary when compared to nearly every other match-up in the game, but she still has more tools, crazy fast mobility, decent stun, and the threat of EX DP. At its absolute best, the match is 4.5/5.5.

Also, I’ll just add this much about Twelve mains…a friend of mine and I were discussing Vega (my main) match-ups in SF4. My favorite quote from him was this: “This match-up is supposed to be 6-4 against Vega, but I swear anything less than 8-2 is easy for you. Hell, 6-4 may as well be FREE.” One, he’s exaggerating and, two, neither him nor I are anything special, but in all honesty you’re playing a character that requires a lot of YOU to win. Because of that, you’ll beat people that just pick characters and play by the books, regardless of the fact that the match-up says 6-4 or even 7-3. Once you start playing people that know the match-up and their character that well, however…then you need to work really effing hard. And you’ll still lose. You’ll cuss. You’ll swear you’ll never play Twelve again. You’ll even pick their character just because you hate losing to it. But in the end, no 3S character is as fun as Twelve.

114

Twelve is straight ass

115

reviving thread (even though nobody goes here), my Twelve game has definitely improved. I still get obliterated by average Elena players, Urien, Alex gives me trouble every now and then. the only characters I swear I cannot beat though are the twins and Makoto. Yun is so FREE when I fight him. dive kicks beat everything! I can’t jump, I can’t block, I can’t advance, I can’t get away. Yang is only slightly easier, but only if I 100% capitalize on any mistakes and take advantage of their aggression. Yun is unstoppable.

116

Did anyone ever mention that twelve’s far mp beats chun back fierce completely. unless you’re right next to her like an idiot, she cannot hit you with back fierce during far strong.
twelve slaps her right in the face.

117

So I’ve been playing 3rd Strike for a bit now, and I definetly enjoy Twelve the most (even though I’m still terrible with him).
I’m going to a local in 2 weeks and wanted to ask for general advice on what I could try doing with Twelve.

  1. What super is recommended for a beginner and in which situation shall it help?

  2. Is it true that Twelve is more of a hit and run character?
    I’d say my defense is better than my offense still (offense is so much more complex than in SF5), so I was wondering if he ‘might’ be a fitting pick for me.

  3. Anything that I should generally look out for?

Thanks in advance. Hopefully I can make Twelve work for myself, even if it is only in casuals :slight_smile:

118

FAI_CW: Where are you from?

119

I’m from Germany

120

No shit. I was hoping you were from Southern California so we could meet up. Do you have a Facebook?

121

twelve has basically no defense. he has evasion, but that’s it. his AA defense is actually pretty interesting but not strong in any traditional sense.
SA1 is more or less the only real choice. the others offer specific interesting options but if you’re playing ‘seriously’ with twelve sa1 gives you a good amount of ex to use and is fairly short with a decent confirmable super.

the only way he wins is really from being unconventional. if you play the game like another character you’re going to lose as they are all superior at the usual style of gameplay.

122

I have to disagree here. To be clear, I define defense as the ability to block punish (BP), parry counter (PC) or whiff punish (WP). In each of these categories, Twelve has options off which he can capitalize.

Whiff punishing (WP’ing) is enabled by evasion, so saying this is suggesting that Twelve is an excellent whiff punisher (which is true), but again—he can BP (block punish) and PC (parry counter) as well.

So far as his anti-air defense, it’s strong because Twelve is designed to be a “poker”; not making COMBO PLAYS so much as SINGLE PLAYS. And the best way to make single plays (with ANY character) is by choosing singles with the highest potential for stun. This is called “stun driving” (as in driving UP the opponent’s stun bar), since doing so takes only 3 or 4 successful exchanges to make the opponent’s next move critical.

For Twelve, there are MANY stun drivers, including:

S. MP, S. MK, S. HP, S. HK, and
J. LP, J. MP, J. MK, J. HP, & J. HK.

If you’re able to focus on WP’ing with singles and using his anti-airs as “rising snuffs” (hitting opponents on the RISE of their jumps instead of at PEAK or FALL), then you can begin to see how he doesn’t *need *combos to control the match. At least, against players on or behind the skill curve.

The other SA’s actually reduce your options, because to use them (as a discipline) you have to REFRAIN from using EX. I agree with you here (about SA1 being the best choice), but again, I think this applies to people on or behind the skill curve only.

…which is WP’ing with combo plays. Now, to clarify what I’ve been saying about the skill curve, players who are on or behind that curve (newcomers, below average players and average players) are susceptible to gimmicks and tiers. And so far as I can tell, all of these players can lose to a “good Twelve”. This doesn’t only apply to his gimmicks OR low tier status, but to his PLAIN ability to consistently drive stun w/those whiff punishments (WP’s). Again, because he can do this, he can pressure his opponents without combos. The only difference then is that the user focuses on SINGLE PLAYS, and anybody can do that with any character.

So the question is, are other characters superior at making WP combo plays…? Yes, but characters *without *WP combo plays (such as Urien) can otherwise make up for it: Urien has a much better ability to capitalize off knockdowns than those who can make WP combo plays (say, the Shotos) and a much easier OUTSIDE GAME (making up for his lackluster FOOTSIE GAME). And Urien is considered upper tier because of that. Likewise, Twelve makes up for his lack of WP combo plays with a great outside game and (through poking) his excellent ability to drive up stun with SINGLE PLAYS.

The real reason for “[other characters being] superior at the usual style of gameplay” is because in order to **enable **Twelve’s poking/outside games, players have to master his low glide input (people call it ‘instant air dash’ or ‘IAD’, but I refuse to). Which (to be fair) is a very unique input for Street Fighter players to learn, *let alone *incorporate into a regular set of tactics and (overall) strategies. And they also have to master his cross up (J. HK) and S. MK xx SJ (what I call ‘Spike-Knee’) tactics. But your average cross section of players (high and low level alike) refuse to do this.

So in other words, the ONLY reason he’s “inferior” is because inferior players refuse to master what it takes to use him.

And in *yet *other words, he’s NOT inferior; he’s only called that by people who are (plain) lazy.

The longer I’ve played Twelve, the less distinct I’ve found him from the rest of the cast. For me, using him has literally become like using anyone else. There is a baseline set of rules to Street Fighter. Any top player who’s picked up and/or gone streaking with a low tier character will tell you the same thing. If you abandon those rules and work off gimmicks alone, you MAY enjoy a few “surprise” wins; but in the end, (without those fundamentals) you’ll be dead in the water.

Just my opinion.