I also need to get better, a lot better…I keep running into guys where I don’t even need to shift out of 3rd gear to beat them…I’m caught off guard when I run into someone that knows what’s up.
I also feel this game will breed a fuckload of comp for SF4 and for future games as well…
This reminds me of when a friend of mine (Spider-Dan) told me about “training” your opponent to do things. It makes total sense, and works wonders. Your story only reinforces what I thought and knew. Great story!
Dude I think that was me, I was playing an Omicron guy who used Vega a little while ago.
No worries, I still have a long way to go on Honda too, a general advice to everyone willing to improve:
WATCH YOUTUBE VIDEOS OF TOP PLAYERS
Seriously, it’s like a shortcut to understand better the matchups of your character.
Wow, it was you. That was an amazing Honda! I couldn’t do anything! (Never thought I would actually get to fight and SRK member)
I second watching videos. After watching Graham Wolfe’s Vega videos I learned a few tricks that helped a ton.
The turning point for me came a few years ago.
I’ve played Street Fighter since I was 6. I never really was a button masher, mainly because I’m a very deliberate sort of person. I always think about what I’m doing. I had a console version of SSF2, and the manual had a moves list. I thought specials were the shit when I was young, so I practiced my execution of them until I could do every move in the game at will. So, despite not knowing shit about using normals properly and all the spacing and zoning concepts, I could kick my friends’ asses with little effort simple because my execution was far better. So, I scrubbed my way around like that for many years. I’ve always played Dictator, there was just something about him. I used Psycho Crusher far more than I should have. My play style was so different back then…I actually played a turtle Dictator! Now I’m actually rather agressive. My arcade experience was actually in Tekken though, not Street Fighter. The local arcade had decent comp for me, even though by my standards now they were scrubby…but hell, I was 10 at the time. Tekken actually gave me some inspiration to use normals a hell of a lot more in SF. I had a concept of cheap at the time. I never thought throwing was cheap, but I thought doing the same move over and over was. Then, it happened. I entered a tournament at the local arcade for Tekken Tag. I played my first match against a good King player, and he wiped the floor with me. I was sent to the losers bracket. Something profound happened there. I was overcome with the intense desire to win. The tournament organizer had disabled blocking to encourage faster and more aggressive play (which now I think was lame). I considered this, and then I threw every notion of “cheap” or “unfair” out the window. I didn’t give a fuck anymore. I didn’t want the prize money. I wanted the victory. I wanted to win. What I did next makes Sirlin’s Low Strong Rose look diverse. I switched my team to Lee and Jun…and I did jabs. The only time I did anything else was when I couldn’t reach with a jab. Lee and Jun’s weak jabs were so fast most people didn’t know what to do. They couldn’t block, so they either had to eat jabs or try to fight back. When you’re in hit stun the entire time because someone is just jabbing and you can’t block…well, it’s hard to deal with. Anyways, I took fourth in that tournament, finally losing to superior play. The tourney had 20 people in it. Not bad for a 10 year old, eh?
After the arcade closed, I pretty much didn’t get to play anymore against people. I got to play friends every now and again, but most refused to play me because of how ruthless I was with my newfound philosophy. Needless to say, I was overjoyed when I found SRK and GGPO years later. This was my second turning point. The first time I got on GGPO I lost to someone pretty badly. Namely they got a perfect. This rattled me. No one had gotten a perfect on me. Ever. That burning desire to win came up again, but this time, I just couldn’t. It was then that I knew I needed work. I refused to give up. I would get better. I found videos of Yuuvega, and studied them. I got my combo timings down. I learned all the little tick throw set ups. Every day I play, I get better. I’m no where near being the best, and I still have some bad habits…but I’m leaps and bounds ahead of where I was. Whoever it was that handed me my ass that first time on GGPO, thank you.
Seriously, the best advice I can give any new player is go get your ass kicked until it stops happening. It’s the only real way to learn. Try new things. Figure out WHY you’re losing and then do something about.
…I miss my old arcade now. :sad:
hmm i never had anyone to play in sf… i played third strike for like 2 weeks and got third in a (small) tournament but beat people who came from out of state
but street fighter 2 forget it, i haven’t played this game since I was in middle school… and not even super turbo, I mean like the first and second versions on on the super nintendo.
I played alpha but that was totally a single player experience.
In short, my turning point was somewhere between week 1 and week 2 of this game being out… lotta good info and players on this site, that is for sure.
I love stories like these, they give those warm fussy feelings 
One thing that i dont quite agree on, though, is that people say that SF is all about the tactics. Id say that its not.
Take chess for example. Anyone on the face of earth can play it. You play it by moving the pieces on the squares and if you dont have hands ask someone else to do it for you or use your mouth. Heck, you can even say the moves out loud.
Blind, deaf, disabled anyone can play chess at the exact same level. In SF however its not so. Some people cant do this and that supercancel. They cant do that perfect blockstring or custom combo. It is part of the game, of course, but as i see it they cant play the same game as a person that can do all those things.
Its like playing chess with missing pieces; you can win, but its uphill.
All that being said, i still think that ST is one of the best game ever created.
Edit: I might as well chip in with a micro-story of my own. I say that all players turn at least one corner.
When they stop pushing buttons, hoping good stuff will happen and look up to see if theres any real effect. If it were real combat, id call it ‘fire coma’ (roughly translated from swedish).
Its when you fire repeatly with little or no regards of what you are doing, hoping for a good outcome. Once one break free from that, sort of lifts their head
and looks up and see whats actually happening, thats when they turned their very first and important corner.
I agree. Saying SF is like chess is a little inaccurate. Sure there is a wealth of strategy involved in both, but you’re right, SF does have a physical barrier that players must overcome. I liken Street Fighter to billiards actually. There is plenty of strategy in billiards (if you just think that you should just aim to hit your own balls in, or the object ball, you’re playing it wrong), yet it requires physical ability. Just like how 90% of Street Fighter players cannot SRK with 100% accuracy, 90% of pool players cannot hit the ball straight with no English. It might LOOK straight, but it’s not. Try it some time. Hit the ball towards one of the rails. If you hit it dead on, it’ll roll straight back after contact. Guess what happens for most people? It goes off to the side because they hit the cue ball off center. There are parallels to just about everything in both games. Let’s look:
I just see much larger similarities between SF and cue sports than SF and Chess. I love Chess, I’ve been playing it for longer than I’ve been playing SF, but it is a poor comparison. Sure, it has qualities 2 and 3, but it lacks the others, namely number 6. For every piece you lose, you lose options. Losing your Queen to a Pawn trap is like getting hit with a jab and not being able to do the Shoryuken for the rest of the match.
For those of you who like cue sports and are big into strategy (hopefully you are if you’re on SRK), try playing one pocket pool. The rules are fairly simple, and it has been called “The Chess of Pool”. There is a wealth of strategy in that version of the game, moreso I believe than any other. Give it a try sometime, I assure you that you’ll fall in love with it.
Okay, but tell us more about the hot Asian chick.
Seriously though dude, that was awesome and I’m so glad you put it up. You know those moments when you’re watching a match vid or somebody else playing, and you see something reeeaally good you didn’t even know was possible, and you’re like “Holy shiiiiit”? That’s your post. That just happened.
It’s definitely not. However, having the finger dexterity and timing for safe jumps and knowing the combos and all that, again, are TOOLS, and having them certainly helps.
I like to think of it as cooking. Hahaha. Stick with me on this. A reallllly good chef can make really good food if he has all the ingredients at his disposal. however, if he just had a normal person’s kitchen of stuff available, he’d still be able to make a really good meal, better than one you and I could make.
The point is, yeah, it’s better to have all the Tools at your disposal, but even if you don’t, you can STILL win. This guy Dean I mentioned in my story? No combo skills. Never did Combos ever. In Alpha 1, he’d always laugh at me because I could do things like Low Short -> Low Forward XX Shoryureppa with Ken. He couldn’t. but he never needed to. He’d kick everyone’s ass without combos. Even though I had more technical skills, I never could beat him up until the point where I got as SMART as him.
I know you aren’t saying that Tools are more important than tactics. So sorry if my post comes off that way. I’m just saying that, while knowing the Tools is helpful, you can still achieve Fighting Game greatness without necessarily needing crazy finger dexterity and such.
Wonderful, wonderful point. Most people when they play read about awesome tactics. Like I saw one Remy player in Third Strike. He kept doing UOH, UOH, Sweep. And his opponent kept falling for it. I’m pretty sure he just thinks that’s a trick that works. But it was very obviously he had NO CLUE WHY it worked. So when you see a lot of beginners play, they try the tactics that are reported to them by experts and such, but they don’t know why to apply them, when to apply them, and when to STOP applying them. They just do things and hope for the best.
One of the biggest keys to make that jump is to learn that everything you do in a Fighting should have a purpose and an intent and an intended “teaching” to the enemy. Against great players, everything YOU do will register with the opponent, and you need to keep that in mind.
It’s like in Chess (hahahaha, hate this comparison, but oh well…). If a player moves his Rook into a position where your Queen can safely capture it with no one protecting the Rook, you HAVE to stop and think. He’s baiting you, trying to lure your Queen away from a certain position. Maybe if you move the Queen, you are now in a “Checkmate in 5 Moves” position. So you gotta stop and think about it carefully. However, bad chess players may just move their Rook there hoping for the best. You can’t do that.
Everything you do should have a purpose. You should be aware of the consequence and process the results of everything you do AND process how your opponent will process the results.
wow, so many great stories in only two pages!
my biggest turning point was when i realized some of the most basic fundamentals of footsies liike how to counter someone who was overaggressive on the ground etc.
truthfully tho i still have so long to go, i know what my obvious weaknesses are but i havent found a way to train them out of my standard game. for instance i’m weak versus air, sure i can AA the random scrubs like nothing, but against better players i let them get jumps against me WAY to much. if i concentrate on stopping the jump they just apply ground pressure, when i try to stop the ground pressure they jump… this only really causes probs versus really good opponents like valle… i simply cant read that dude… AT ALL.
for instance, i THINK, i totally get his game, ie. what he’s trying to accomplish, etc.
however it does me absolutely no good cause his game is primarily based around:
reading the opponent.
and attacking (and defending) with shit that seems random.
let me explain:
one prob i have against him is trying to figure out what hes gonna counter me with. almost NO opponent i have ever played plays like this, they all counter WITH SOMETHING OBVIOUS 90% of the time. like if i intend to walk in and sweep, they’ll try to counterpoke me everytime or mix it up with doing nothing or focus attack or jump etc. the thing is i know that they ARE going to try to counter me, valle isnt like this tho… he’ll do something different EVERYTIME, the mixup is when he repeats shit. its unsettling because he never really gives you anything to work with. if i jump it might get absorbed by a focus attack, or it might get jumpkicked it might get back dashed or some other extremely well hidden (cause he hasnt done it yet this round) AA.
case in point, this vid:
[media=youtube]bnq-314paNE&NR=1[/media]
i got straight beasted on here, and i know what he was doing primarily to take off all the damage, but look at how many jumps i let get in, IT’S ASTOUNDING… dude knows just when im looking for him to jump and thats when he uses a different approach, he owned me with that. lets not even bother to look at the poke x3, slight pause, CH cr.MK or low strong xx scissors stuff ( which i can usually predict when lower level players do this to me) that he was doing or the fact that he was able to expose the scrubbiest parts of my game for exactly what they were, the real problem is that i simply cant ever figure him, and others near his level, out. other great players out guess me, but i always know where the guessing games are going to come from, with him it seems like the whole damn match is a guessing game and my numbers are 1-3 and his are 1-10… if that makes any sense…
so yeah i still have to come to my ( and as james already stated it) hardest turning point of all which is to be aggressive w/o being predictable in a way that gives my opponent easy opportunities…
lol did you see that time i had him in the corner with honda? i was so scared that i just started to hit buttons hoping that he would walk into one of them.
FTL!!!
-dime
while im on the subject, another thing he does which astounds me which is so fucking simple is how he instantly goes from walking forward or backward and then doing a straight up jump, most people roll through neutral then to up to make sure that no diagonal jump is hit (and they generally lose between 5-8 frames or so between walking and jumping, valle doesnt roll through neutral tho, he bypasses it slightly by just missing the diagonal on the way up which results in an extremely quick straight jump which is (amongst other things) safer versus crouching and standing pokes cause of less time on the ground occupying contested space.
yeah i know it’s small beans, i dont even bother with it cause i dont know how to perfectly apply it, but believe me, if you ever play against this shit, it’s strong as fuck.
-dime
I’m not even close to any surt of turning point. HD Remix is the first street fighter I’ve ever played, and I’ve won online twice purely out of luck. I can’t block anything, I can’t read opponents, I can’t dodge, I can’t get any moves to work 80% of the time, and I just can’t think or move at even a fraction of the speed that you people can. I seriously don’t even know why I spent money on this game…
:shake:
And that attitude is possibly why you aren’t improving. Believe me, I haven’t played a straight SF title since SF2CE on Genesis. I get smashed by easy traps cause I play fei long and have a little trouble with the flame kick motion. I over use specials, neglect my normals and can become very predicable. I’m still trying to get the hang of the whole thing, but at least I’ve tried to identify my weaknesses. Blanket statements will never help you, stick around here, you can learn a lot, I know I have already.
Check the wiki, pick a character, don’t worry if people write you off at first and take you’re losses like an adult, even if you aren’t an adult. At least then you’ll get some respect and maybe some tips. Just stick with and it can be great fun even in losing. Try a different perspective and “I don’t even know why I spent money on this game…” can turn into “I’m glad I spent money on this game.”
Don’t just give up. Everyone started where you did. It just takes practice and a bunch of matches - eventually you’ll think Shoryuken and BAM it comes out. You should go into training to practice each of your character’s special moves and make sure you can do them almost every time. Nothing’s worse than losing because you weren’t able to pull off one of your specials.
If you can find someone good to play against, it helps a lot. You might lose most of the time but you’ll also be getting much better too. Playing someone better helps you learn how to avoid certain situations and when you can use what moves.
Edit: This is to Drakkel, btw 
Dime, I wouldn’t sweat it, man. Remember in a previous post of mine when i said Valle swept me like 20 times in a row? Yeah, he’s just nuts. lol!
And honestly, Valle has two very prominent strengths: his ability to NEVER fall into pattern and his ability to intimidate. Remember how I said in a different previous post that every move you do should have a purpose? That’s the beauty of Valle’s game. He throws out moves and they LOOK random, but understand that they are intimidating. And he gets you to think about certain moves so he gets you to react certain ways. He’ll figure out you’re thinking of jumping so he’ll throw out Stand Roundhouses that whiff with Bison in SF4 and now you’re scared to jump to get hit incidentally by the Stand Roundhouse. So now you think, “Okay, I can’t jump, better figure out a differnet way to attack.” And while you think about that, he’s jumped at you. And you’re like, “Wait, what?” and don’t anti-air. That’s how he gets on you. he gets you thinking about one thing and then doesn’t even use that directly to take advantage of you. Dastardly, isn’t he? Hahaha.
And trust me, even KNOWING this helps me NONE against Valle. That guys messes with my head so badly. I KNOW what he’s trying to do to me, I KNOW he’s trying to train my brain and I just can’t do anything about it. I’m an easily intimidated player, to be 100% honest about one of my own weaknesses, which is why I think Valle is like Metal Man to my Bubble Man.
The players I see the most successful against Valle are the ones who are NOT intimidated. Back in the days of CvS2’s height of popularity, I always remember Combofiend doing very well against Valle. Combofiend is a player who does what he knows works, and it’s hard to train him off of what he knows works really well. So while Valle can counter my attack once or twice and scare me from never trying it again even though the tactic is REALLY GOOD, Combofiend will never be scared away from it because he knows it works. Another player who does well vs. Valle is Choi. Choi just has ice in his veins, and he just never gets phased. lol.
So really, don’t sweat it on Valle. It’s like trying to learn Basketball and being mad you can’t beat Kobe Bryant. It really is.
Edit: Watch that video you linked. Go to 4:23. See taht Standing Forward he threw out? Looks useless, right? Nope. It plants a subtle seed in your mind that he wants to poke you from that distance. So when you get up, he dashes and Throws you. That’s a PERFECT example of what I mean by nothing should EVER be random. Man, good stuff. I love Valle. lol
Quoted for emphasis 
Its true though, unless you are born gifted and talented (some people are), you gotta work for it. Until Hyper Fighting came out on Live, I hadn’t played a SF since my Turbo copy for SNES got jacked in '95. Only thing I could do was fireball. I’m not expert, and I haven’t turned any real corners in my mind, but over the last year I can see I have improved by leaps and bounds, and only hope to continue to do so.
Seriously, man, don’t feel bad. One thing I always say about Street Fighter is that it has so very little luck, unlike something like Poker. There are so few suck outs in SF that losing constantly IS very brutal to the ego, and it’s tough to stick it out. I know it feels really shitty right now (really, really, REALLY shitty), but just take it one step at a time.
First of all, to be perfectly honest with you, I’d start playing against the CPU some more. Don’t start on easy difficulty, that’s just no point. But play against Normal difficulty. And here’s the kicker: Don’t play to beat the computer. If you do, it’s easy to find a pattern to just sweep them over and over again. No, instead, play them to accomplish certain things. So against CPU Chun, use Ryu, for example. Keep throwing Jab Fireballs at her. Make that your whole life. Pretty soon, you’ll be great at Throwing Fireballs. Every time she jumps over them at you, block her Jump Attack. If she eventually kills you, who cares. Again, your point is NOT TO BEAT THE COMPUTER. Continue and play again. And soon, throwing Fireballs and Blocking a lot will get you into a weird rhythm that will be valuable in the future.
Once you do that, start trying to DP her jumps when she jumps at you over Fireballs. That’ll help you learn the DP motion. AND, unknowingly, you’ll start learning to try to walk into position so your DP will hit. You’ll start recognizing when you are too far to DP her or too close so she’ll jump over you. And also, you’ll notice that if she jumps RIGHT when you throw it, you CAN’T DP in time. So you start picking up on that. Again, focus on little areas, DO NOT focus on beating the computer.
With Honda, try killing the computer with only Headbutts. With Chun Li, try killing the computer with only Jump attacks (learning her jump distance). With Guile, just pester then with Sonic Booms. Learning the charge timing is HUGE. Etc. etc. And also learn to control your moves. Don’t spam on things. Learn to choose your moves so that you do only what you want. Never mash. Unless you are playing Chun, Honda, or Blanka, you should never mash. Mashing is usually a result of panic. If you find yourself mashing, stop, re-assess the situation, and go back to the pattern you were trying to test.
Once you start gaining these fundamentals and finding that you are blocking more consistenly and doing Special Moves consistently and suddently getting a feel for distances and such, THEN go back online and play. Because now you are ready to try and take on other people. And remember, NEVER panic. If you get beat down, don’t sweat it. There are people who have dedicated a LOT more time in the game than you have. Just stick with it, and you’ll get there eventually. And pretty soon, you’ll be beating down some hapless player and YOU’LL make HIM wonder why he got the game.
lol yeah man i know, alex is my fav player to watch… but play against…
funny you should pick that wiffed st.mk to talk about, did you see that cr.hk i hit him with then i wiffed a medium range cr .mp on his knockdown? (right before the part in the vid you talk about, 4:15 or so) the same thinking applies, i was trying to make him think about me attacking with something which would give him the choice of reversal with scissors or crusher or block… which my crossup would be safe against all and give me advantage versus block… but he woke up with imba (lol) stomp which knocked me down and he proceeded to use my tactic against me lol, dastardly to say the least.
also im not in any way mad for getting beat on by him. its just how it goes, he’s a legend. what i am mad about is the fact that i cant even slow him down, you know, make him think.
and not just versus him but against alot of the top players like edma, ken I, ETC.
i have certain patterns that i’m not aware of, that they take advantage of.
i guess one of them is the same as yours, i get intimidated easy. it’s a bad pattern to have… if i see my op do something which puts problems in my game, i stop everything and try to counter it if i kmnow one. if i dont know one then i try to deny my opponent the position from which BS occurs, which is another tell.
your statement that valle likes to throw shit out if for no other reason than to intimidate is new to me, and i like it. i never really thought of it that way as i am never really scared because i generally know i’m going to lose anyways ( yeah bad train of thought) so in my own mind he doesnt really intimidate so much as confuse, which is why i’ve always pegged his style as based on the appearance of randomness… i was never saying that i thought he was random, i can monday morning quarterback his games all day, figuring why he did what etc. and yep it does me no good against him. versus scrubs though i’ve learned alot of stuff that i apply from his match vids everytime i play.
also about that st mk. he wiffed did you notice that he was conveniently out of range for any normal that i could do on wakeup? thats why i didnt do any thing, i knew he was out of range of my srk and normals but i ( as you already surmised ) was scared of some random poke so i decided to block, what REALLY takes the cake tho is how slow he inputted his dash, the first forward motion froze me as i thought " oh yeah hes walking in to poke me" but he double tapped instead to get the dash and throw me before i knew what was going on.
i full well think he meant to do that, you know input the dash slowly so i would see the first forward movement as an attempt to walk in which is why i held off on pressing any buttons for such a long time.
yeah valles on some 'ol other shit.
peter is also a great player, i can at least get rounds on him and occasionally get a win (very occasionally tho).
this is the reason why i love streetfighter so much, theres alot to learn.
-dime
That’s were I’m at. One day it will click. This thread is inspiring.