just wanna say, I find it kinda funny how s-kill HATES seth as a character.
I’m guessing it has a lot to do with the fact that Seth is almost 99% an algamation of previous SF characters; the look of Urien/Gill, the moveset of shotos/Dhalsim/Guile, etc. There’s nothing original about him for the most part.
…
Seriously…?
5 + 5 + 5 + 5 = 20
6 + 4 + 4 + 6 = ???
5+5+5+5=20
6+4=10
Not really
Of course he does! And so do the cafeteria workers… that’s why El Fuere is a cook!:blah:
Sure Capcom can make a truly balanced game. But then again, if they did, you’d be back here complaining about why the only character in the game is Ken.
GGAC is 100x more balanced than SSFIV (still not perfect), yet the characters are more unique. How does that work?
There’s really very little reason why the worst matchup in a fighting game should be worse than 6.5-3.5, and there shouldn’t be many of those. 7-3 matchups are just a sign of bad balancing work (or a joke character).
LOL at people acting like Seth joined SRK in '09 or something.
Everyone who doesn’t have an SRK forum devoted to your views on fighting games please STFU.
I’ve said all kinds of stuff about Seth in the MVC3 forums, based off of what comes across as job based bias, or conflict of interests, but thats completely different from saying he doesn’t know what hes talking about when it comes to SF.
Seriously think of the most profound SF related topic you can think of today, write an article about it and see if someone stickies it and leaves it up for people to read for 7 years; otherwise as previously mentioned, please STFU.
Fun is more important than balance when making a good and enjoyable game but to categorically state that a game with all 5-5 matchups would be boring is ridiculous. Then again it’s Capcom we’re talking about and Capcoms idea of balancing games is to make everyone equally mediocre, which really is boring (see sf4 series).
Case in point, MvC2 is arguable the most fun fighting game ever made, yet we all know how the balance outside of the top 16 is shot to hell.
Game companies generally have an idea what characters should be top tier and which ones shouldn’t and will balance toward that ideal and there’s a very good reason for that. One of the most enlightening thoughts on balance in Capcom games was told to me by Majestros in a golfland parking lot. Which isn’t strange because this is where I learned a lot about fighting games. So now I will pass it on here.
If Guile, Vega or Dhalsim are top tier in a game, you have probably not made a very good game.
If Ryu is top tier in a game, you have probably made a good game.
If Ken is better than Ryu in your game, it’s very likely that your game has some serious fundamental flaws.
The only real exception is ST. For reference, Guile games in the top tier include WW, CvS1 and to a lesser extent SvC:Chaos (after a few characters are banned). Vega games in the top tier would be ST, CvS2. And Dhalsim top tier games would be WW, ST, A3, CvS1 (relative, you get a lot of power from his ratio). Ken is better than Ryu in WW (negligible difference), A1, A2 (until you get to super tip top level play) and 3s.
This may seem like nonsense but understanding what this actually means is key to understanding balance in fighting games. If Guile and Dhalsim are top tier in a game, it generally doesn’t mean that much about their character strength in a vacuum, but more about what the game rewards. Guile/Dhalsim games are slow paced, involve heavy amounts of poking/zoning from > half screen. Either projectiles are inherently too good in this game or offensive options are too disadvantaged relative to space defensive options. Note that they tend to be good in games together and weak in games together. Even though their character designs are very different, their relative strength has more to do with the game engine than anything else.
If Ken is better than Ryu, that means that gimmicks are trumping solid play. Ryu’s basic tools are always better than Ken’s basic tools. Ryu almost always has the better fireball and normals. Ken usually has 1 or 2 gimmick pokes and some kind of extra mobility option. If Ken is beating Ryu, it means that basic tools and core Street Fighter mechanics aren’t as good as gimmicks and game specific engine mechanics. This leads to a general feeling of dissatisfaction.
Vega is somewhat different because Vega’s character design has changed over the years. Generally the Vega character design has the best walking speed, very long pokes, little to no comboability and excellent backwards mobility. If the game has a backdash/back hop option, Vega probably has a good one. His wall dive is vastly different as an offensive tool from game to game but is almost always good for running away. But generally if Vega is a top tier character, it generally means that poking and game wide anti-air options are dominant, or defensive mobility is relatively overpowered. These are things that gamers dislike immensely. It’s probably much easier to construct a scenario where Vega is strong and the game is still good that to construct a Guile/Dhalsim scenario simply because the Vega character design can be tweaked offensively and his anti-air capabilities vary so much from game to game, but people don’t like Vega to be good.
Game players know this kind of thing and game designers know this also. When developing a game, you have an idea what your game is about and what relative style balance you’re looking for (offense vs. defense, etc). You obviously look at some character designs and think “this better not be top tier, otherwise this game will not be good” and that’s OK. We’re 20 years into making competitive fighting games. If developers weren’t looking into the past and learning what character designs lead to fulfilling gameplay, it would be pretty worrisome. While it might not make you happy as a fan of any individual character, there’s a very good reason why some characters are kept down from game to game.
–Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com
Jesus Christ!!! Another fucking whining thread! Seriously, I suggest making a sub-forum for members who just want to vent. If you don’t like the balance of SSFIV, here’s a thought. **STOP PLAYING SSFIV! ** Go find some other game that suits you. In the event you can’t find one, just stop playing period.
Really, Capcom should make a game with all 5-5 match ups. That way when ever someone comes on SRK to bitch about balance. We can just tell to STFU, GTFO, and go play the new “Scrub Fighter”.
Play VF.
Announcing Super Street Fighter IV Newbie Remix.
Characters:
-Ken
-Ken dressed as Ryu
-Ken dressed as Bison
-Ken dressed as Sagat
-Ken dressed as Vega
-Ken dressed as Balrog
-Ken dressed as E. Honda
-Ken dressed as Zangief
-Ken dressed as Dhalsim
-Ken dressed as Blanka
-Ken dressed as Guile
-Ken dressed as Chun Li
-Ken dressed as T. Hawk
-Ken dressed as Fei Long
-Ken dressed as DeeJay
-Ken dressed as Cam… wait, that would break the balance since anyone playing against Ken’s hairy ass in a thong would immediately quit and lose.
Good joke.
And this is how it should be, god damnit.
Dan being mid-tier or above defeats the whole point of the character. He’s been a “joke character” since Street Fighter Alpha in '95. Sagat is a 7 foot tall motherfucker with an eyepatch that shoots tigers from his fists, he should be one of the most powerful characters. Same with Ryu because he is the face of Street Fighter.
In the sf series there are characters that should always be good.
Sagat Ryu Bison Boxer and Vega.
And there those that should always be competent enough to fight those
guile, Sim chun, ken Gief, blanka
Then wild cards…
the reset of the cast.
If you look at the list you
You’ll see its pretty much the main cast of crew that should always be “better” not broken or OP but at least more of a challenge to the rest of the cast more so than all of the wildcards.
Companies know this and that’s why you Sols, bangs, ryu’s, jins, kliks, Ivy’s, devil jins, kens, and those main villains and hero’s and there inner circle of fighters are always good or very solid or OP.