mods???
If you’re talking about strength in terms of storyline, this would be great. Oro would be the strongest no matter what, then Akuma and Gouken, then Gen, then Ryu changing every iteration to become more powerful, then everyone else.
Instead of throwing insults at me, perhaps you could put forth at least a modicum of effort to actually address my posts in a logical manner? Of course, this is the internet, so, I shouldn’t expect anything of the sort.
of course, this is the internet
Here’s a clue: stop taking numbers in a match-up chart seriously.
Clarify further.
Are you saying that match-up charts in general aren’t to be taken seriously? If that’s your argument, then I disagree.
Are you saying that I believe match-up charts to completely determine the outcome of a match? This would be incorrect, as player skill is obviously the most important factor.
Are you arguing that Vampire Savior is better balanced than Super Street Fighter IV? That’s quite possible, though, I’d place that on the SSFIV match-up charts being flawed as opposed to the Vampire chart being flawed.
Or, are you arguing some other point of view? You haven’t presented enough information for me to see where you stand.
Clue #2: a 6-4 match up in Vampire Savior is not the same as a 6-4 match up in SF4
EDIT: Or 7-3, whatever.
Until you understand why, you are wasting your time as your arguments have already been refuted in the last page repeatedly by more than one poster.
Prove me wrong or STFU.
Oh hey, while we’re at it let’s make it so that if Akuma lands his super or ultra against anyone except Gouken and Gen ( in SSF4 ) he instantly wins the match. Terrible idea.
While I understand what you’re trying to get at, that’s not technically true, and you could certainly be less of an ass when you express your opinion.
Ah, I see what you’re trying to argue now. I also disagree completely and utterly. The numbers retain the same meaning regardless of differences in the games’ respective systems. The number of additional options in Savior as compared to SFIV means nothing.
As I said on the last page:
All you’ve done is basically say “screw your source, trust me, I know what’s up, though I provide no reasons or backing for what I say, just trust me.” Maybe you should try your own words.
A game’s inner systems go into a matchup chart. Guilty Gear includes all the various blocks, cancels, and burst when making their matchup charts. I’ve also never heard of the numbers meaning anything less than “6-4 means that you will win 60 games out of a hundred if both opponents are of the highest and equal skill.”
Burden of proof would be on the guy saying 6/10 is not the same number as 6/10.
The correct argument would be that the numbers are less meaningful in VS, because a greater number of options make playing at the theoretical optimal level matchup charts are designed around harder to do, it does not, however, change the meaning of the number. AND that given that matchup numbers are as much subjective as objective, one might have slightly different views on certain vailues.
Would you mind explaining where you draw that conclusion from considering that the VS matchup chart and the SF4 were made by two ENTIRELY DIFFERENT groups of people, based on two ENTIRELY DIFFERENT gameplay systems, and at two ENTIRELY DIFFERENT times?
I gave him clues so that perhaps he could find out the answer himself, but no dice.
Except that you are completely confusing fact with opinion.
Saying that 6/10 = 6/10 is a mathematical fact.
Saying that Zabel vs. Lilith is a 7-3 matchup in Zabel’s favor is purely an arbitrary opinion.
These aren’t made up number systems, they have a set meaning. They have a strict denotation, and are not cognative in anyway. A 6-4 has always been a 6-4, no matter who says it or at what time or for what game.
The games’ respective communities decided independently that those matchups were of equal difficulty for the disadvantaged characters.
There will never be balance in Street Fighter, that is simply unheard of. There is a higher chance of Ryu being able to have a instant win unblockable full screen spamable move while every other character is Fei Long status. That is simply how Capcom rolls.
I’m getting sick of mentally fucken retarded people saying difficult input or long combos makes a “hardcore” game. Those are for losers who shit themselves every time a match starts and don’t know what to do unless they are pressing the exact same motions for a combo and get lucky knowing counters do not exist or are input difficult to use.
As for charts. Meh, a person can get good with garbage but they would be better with a overpowered character. Oh well.
All fighting games are garbage. Except for DOA of course.
The only thing that 6-4 means is that Character A generally is perceived as having an advantage over Character B.
How significant this advantage is and why is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT based on the game, its system, and the skill level of the competitive player pool.
This is exactly what Viscant went over earlier in this very same fucking thread.
The reasons why characters are low tier in SF4 are completely different from the reasons why characters are low tier in GGAC or VS.
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I will buy SFV if SGS actually instantly kills people.
All of those factor into the number itself, not how the numbers are scaled.
a 6-4 means that in 10 games of play, one character is expected to win 6 of them assuming close to optimal play. VS appears more balanced because approaching optimal play between two given characters is harder to achieve, there’s more options among all characters to manage in any given moment.
A system and player skill level merely define how relevant said matchup chart is, not what it actually means for a given character.
Not really, low tier characters in SF4 are low tier because they lack the same tools as high tiers… which is ubiquitous really, there’s no other way to be low tier.
Disagreed. A 6-4 matchup means that given players who have reached the skillcap, the person playing the advantaged character will ON AVERAGE win 6 out of 10 games he plays against the player of the disadvantaged character. The meaning of the numbers is incapable of varying from game to game.
Match-up lists are meant to apply to the skill-cap. Attempting to apply it to anything else will result in variations. As it is impossible to reach the skill-cap, variations WILL occur.
What Viscant was discussing was something completely separate from this argument. He was talking about how why characters have specific advantages or disadvantages. We’re arguing about match-up lists and what they actually mean.
EDIT: Katriana beat me to it. Oh well.