Hey guys I’m a high 4500 PP low 3800 PP Balrog (PSN I know don’t give me that much credit) and I’m having some trouble with Akuma’s vortex especially when the Akuma sets me up with a crossup that wont auto correct my headbutt. They just put the fear in me to either not try it or only do it when I notice their setup was off timed. Do you think it might be a good idea to raise an Akuma up to 10k BP and memorize a majority of the setups. I’m a charge player at heart but Akuma is a big weakness for me and I’d like to get over that hill.

Any advice would be appreciated, maybe if there are some youtube videos with a majority of his setups so I can study that instead of learning and performing them myself. Holding down back is the love of my life but as I get higher in PP I’m seeing too many Akumas to stay at that 4k+ PP range. I promise I’ll give you my fight money.

I just try to choose the wakeup option that will lead to the least damage if I guess wrong. I find that headbutt is rarely a good choice because it only works against a few options that most Akumas rarely use against Rog, and it leads to big damage when you guess wrong. Most Akumas seem to constantly use palm whif, ambiguous crossups and only sprinkle in some demon flip throws if they see that you always block or like to abuse armored moves. It’s an incredibly disadvantageous situation I just try to stay out of at all costs.

It might sound defeatist but if I get hit with a sweep/throw I honestly expect to lose the round. More than any other matchup I really try to zone Akuma out with my normals to avoid the UKD. Avoiding air fireball blockstun when he’s near you is critical.

I honestly am practicing a blanka to counter-pick akuma. high level akumas are pretty much hell for balrog. For a lot of their setups, your only choice is to block and if you guess wrong, you eat an ultra 2. if you backdash, you eat an ultra 2, if you headbutt, you eat an ultra 2, etc. Perhaps learning the setups as op suggested might help figure out how to block what… but it might end up being a bit unrealistic to consistently block it all

For dealing with U2 I randomly choose to block or jump back (so no matter what I don’t get hit with the ultra).

On even footing between a good Balrog & a good Akuma the matchup really isn’t fantastic for Rog, however you have to have a little faith, especially when you have a nostalgic look at PR Rog taking down Tokido in the finals last time, what a joy to watch, that was.

However, I aint PR Rog, and my opponent Akumas are never Tokidos, so the first thing I watch out for is their general skill level - I hazard a guess it takes a good mindset and finesse to play Akuma given the risk/reward of his healthpool and even a scrub Rog like me can see a bad Akuma from miles off.

90% of the Akuma’s I’ve faced over the years are the type who open with bad-habits straight away, watch for them, you NEED to abuse them if they have any.
For example, the Badkuma’s I’ve faced often like to jumpback fireball on a match-start, and some of them have been so bad that they do this every time out of habit, even when I’ve landed the first hit by noticing this habit and opening a round with forward-dash TAP to AA them (Can also lead to Super). Others like trying to abuse Badkuma’s roundhouse a lot - And as annoying as it is given it’s relative safety on block, you have to punish it or space it for a well timed RH or Sweep of your own until they stop spamming it. I’ve had Badkuma’s try that “He jumped a fireball so now I can Raging Demon” tactic, only for them to eat a full-on grounded Raging Buffalo in retaliation.

I could go on all day about the Badkuma’s I’ve faced, but I wager the issue in this thread is regarding better Akumas.

Vortex kills Rog, Rogs wakeup options are so bad that the only logical and strong ‘option’ to cope with it is simply to block, unlike almost any other character who has SOME kind of alternative. Sure, you could risk an EX HB, or try to EX RU or RU away from ambigious or straight up crossup/vortex shinanigans but any good Akuma will love to punish a blocked HB, or simply sweep you during EX RU/RU Recovery with option select sweeps.

The only logical advice to give regarding this problem then is quite simple - Don’t get knocked down… I know, right? Easier said than done, right? Well it’s not easy, we all know that when we say it but you have to do what you can to prevent it at all costs. If it isn’t a sweep, it’s a throw… If it’s not a throw it’s a palm-strike… If it’s not a palm-strike it’s a damn demon-flip grab… If it’s not a flip-grab it’s a darn flip-sweep… And it can be hard to distinguish which from which.

AFAIK all flips can be punished on reaction with jumpback normals, though I’ve often been late with these sometimes and got AA-Palmed during jumpback, meaning I was better off grounded - So I’m unsure if they can all be punished but I assume some if not most can be. You can also walk under them if the Akuma is the type to mix these into block-strings, which can also lead into a standing RH/FP AA, or just the ability to block the followup if you fail to hit him from the otherside.

One thing PR Rog showed tenfold in his match with Tokido is that reacting to teleport with AC Ultra (Raw) was absolutely devastating - So much like the other shotos, this is best done by working the ground fireball game and trying to best to push Akuma to the corner like you would anyone else and leave as few escape options as possible with a watchful eye for teleport - Even a TAP can sometimes be enough to punish it if timed right so it’s activeframes are present when Teleport ends, but I could be wrong in that as I think Akuma can input Raging Demon to bypass it, not sure. All shoto’s can be punished if they try a long-air tatsu escape, again by dash Ultra… Unfortunately both require sick reactions and knowledge of the inputs so I’ve only seen the really good Rog’s ready and capable of doing this every time, scrubs like me can’t.

Normally you’d say the optimal range is just out of sweep range, enough that you can RH Fireball attemps, catch out double round-house but this is hell vs Akuma because if he happens to land just one sweep, you’re in vortex hell again so I tend to take the tanky role and play a lame, safety game, wether it’s in that range or not - Ultimately you have so much more health than Akuma so eating a bit of poke or a combo from him from time to time (Assuming he cant follow it up with vortex hell) may not be a bad thing with Akuma himself simply cannot make as many mistakes as he’s as beefy as a wet paper bag with low health and low stun threshold. If you’re in the driving seat, choose quickly between attempting to mass pressure or laming it even more - If you’re going to pressure, do everything you can do avoid any random SRK’s or mashed SRK’s during blockstrings or other pressure - It is, afterall, a knockdown albeit a techable one and you do not want it to happen. If you’re going to lame him out at full screen, be mindful of jumping fireballs as he can advance on you within a single flip and the pressure options from there are high for him if he either lands it or gets to mount pressure on you if you didn’t somehow knock him out of it.

I really don’t know what else I can say on it - I enjoy the matchup but thats only because a lot of Akumas at my level are manageable through inexperience whereas I get the occasional decent one which always leads to a tense set.

I can’t really give any pro advice, but maybe some comedy videos will lighten the mood. Good luck vs Akuma!

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Really great advice guys, I appreciate it a lot. It’s always nice to see such detailed responses that took some effort to put together. I really relate to RopeDrink’s post about how easy it is to take down some “Badkuma’s” (haha). Definitely an instant YouTube sub from me I loved watching those funny moments. I think I’m going to look up a majority of Akuma’s safejumps and put in a couple hours a day into the lab practicing his options and my best response. From there I think it’s just a matter of reading the player to try to get a higher guess chance on 50/50’s. Sorry for the long response but I’ve really been grinding hard lately and kinda forgot about this post. Fight money is definitely in order for all you guys.

Ropedrink is right, you have to stay on your feet or this match gets very difficult very fast. Also rope, if you are getting swept out of your dash it is not an OS. An OS will only come out of the jump in whiffs, if you wakeup EX rush, then the jump in is absorbed. If you are getting swept then that means they are predicting your rush so at that point you have to be less predictable.

Truthfully, I beleive that Rog wins this match on the ground, and only before Akuma has his ultra. Both U1 and U2 present significant problems for Rog. U1 shuts down your air game completely and you are no longer able to move forward at him w/ special moves. U2 means safe teleports away from everything and OS late palm jumpins which destroy rog on wakeup. Practicing his setups in training mode will help you a great deal. You can almost always HB him out of flips on ur wakeup if he does the kick or the throw. If you can better identify them, you wont get forced into blocking his pressure game. The match totally comes down to footsies and punishing Akuma’s unsafe stuff. OS TAP off of a sweep can get him to stop teleporting, but not if he has U2. Max ur damage out cuz he cant take very many hits, and play patient. This match isnt great but it is totally winnable. If you know how to play akuma it gets way easier.
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No need to sub, I barely play SF4 much these days so SF4 vids are going to be extremely rare or entirely non-existant for now, but appreciate the sentiment and glad you liked them - I like compiling those fun moment things because when it comes down to such a competative game it can be very easy to get frustrated, beit against people, characters or your own play - So when things get rough I look back on clips only a scrub like me can capture because you wont see that crap shinanigans go on at Evo or tournies :wink:

@Alrog:
I’m not big up on the terminology but I know there are several occasions the decent Akumas I’ve faced have been OS Sweeping me out of Dashes as well as some cross-under RU’s - My information may be inaccurate but I’m sure you get the general idea of what I mean. Akuma up close has quite a lot of options to punish anything other than straight up blocking from Rog, making backdashes and abilities risky - If they lead to a UTK for Akuma then it was 200% not worth it, but sometimes you just have to take a chance, just to get some breathing room if the Vortex is destroying your healthbar and you’re not confident with blocking (Stupid flip grabs, stupid OH Palm, stupid flip sweep if you block high etc etc).

Either way you said it, you have to stay on your feet or shit hits the fan in a hurry.