Too much damage!

[LittlePud]

One thing I love about ST is the (somewhat) practical TOD combos. The other Capcom games that don’t have them are somehow… lacking something… In any case I’ll agree that the damage/dizzy level in WW/CE/HF was a little over the top, but Super and ST have it pretty much just right (IMO).

[Saint_Gut_Free]

most characters are fighting for a certain position or space where they can maximize there damage. it’s YOUR job to make sure that they dont get to those spots. once you get good at taking there positional abilities away they’ll start to to fight for an easier place on the field to occcupy, once you get to that point is when your REALLY playing ST.

-dime

Just like a chess board…ahh the beauty…

they already made a game like the alpha series.

its called the alpha series.

if you don’t like st, thats fine. but its lasted longer competitively than any other fighting game, and just got a new breath of life. there’s a reason why people play it still and why its gotten so much love. maybe… just maybe… there’s something there worth sticking around for.

Or coming back too, as many of us have after a way too long hiatus.

[mrhumble1]

But if you look at it, there’s definitely an argument in favor of high damage games. The best games have been the ones that have the highest damage. Tekken 4 was reviled by the Tekken community because of its low damage. Tekken Tag has huge damage and has always been considered the ST of Tekken. Then you have a game like MvC2. One mistake can mean instant death for a whole character. And that game is still kicking like gang-busters. High damage creates better drama, and fuels excitement.

But this is not to say your opinion is wrong. There is definitely a place for lower damage games, it’s all about pacing and what you prefer. Some people hate Basketball because each field goal means so little, whereas in something like Football or Hockey, each goal is HUGE. Others like the way Basketball requires 48 minutes of consistency, and you aren’t rewarded so strongly for one lousy mistake that resulted in an interception. ST has been living with high damage for so long, though, that the reason I think everyone gets on people’s cases for complaining about high damage is that, well, most people are used to it and know it suits the game well. It wouldn’t be ST if it were lower damage. It’s just a part of its personality. So the complaints seem whiny to most of the fans of ST, even though the complaints are genuine.

• James

I see what my problem is now. I have been a “vs” game fan for so long (huge combo chains that maybe would take 30%) that getting huge damage in just 2 hits seems excessive. I have been waiting to play a SF game online for so long and HD Remix is really all there is right now. I have been trying to love it but it’s SO different from the “vs” games.

Speaking of the “vs” games, the 100% combos there are mostly infinites and guard breaks that should not be in ANY game. I am all for flashy combos, but a game is pretty broken when you can kill a full character before they even have a chance to land on the floor or do anything (regardless of how much skill it takes to make that happen).

I have other issues with HD Remix too, which I have gone over in other threads. I should not complain, really, since as you said ST is what ST is. I’m just disappointed that I didn’t love this game. I have enjoyed most of the matches I have had, and playing my friends “arcade-style” in an XBL party really brings me back to my old arcade days.

Hopefully SF IV will be more my style!

Jason

[System_1]

I used to hate Super Turbo because of the utterly retarded/obtuse inputs, stupidly small windows, etc. but HDR is a bit more passable and I’ve been playing with it a bit.

I used to HATE the damage. It’s not because of “scrubbiness” but moreso that SINCE the game was so unforgiving in every area “for no reason” that at anything but the absolute highest level of play, easy-aggressive characters (Blanka-Honda-Chun Li) were too favored as they didn’t have to worry about single frame dragon punch motions on wakeup or coin flip throw reversals - they could just “crossup/spam/throw” with the easy advantage. A good player will be able to reversal DP the majority of time and reversal super 50% or so - but those occasions where you die because the reversal didn’t come out and their crossup combo dizzies you is highly, highly frustrating.

Coming from a 3S or Virtua Fighter or something player where you lose only when you guess or read the other player wrong throughout the match, and not because you missed the .10 second of when you were supposed to press the button (especially since the game constantly slows down ridiculously on SOME hits and doesn’t store a lot of inputs, ruining some timing) gets to be really frustrating; and if the damage was not so high, it would be more forgivable. Losing because Deejay hit me once (combo - dizzy - combo) because my tiger knee registered as a low tiger shot (even though you can hear all the correct joystick clicks), for instance, was rather lol.

But that’s part of the game, too, and it’s not going to change, so I just deal with it and don’t bother to play it too seriously. Still, there’s no reason to jump on people for their preferences.

[Dr.Deelite]

Coming from a 3S or Virtua Fighter or something player where you lose only when you guess or read the other player wrong throughout the match, and not because you missed the .10 second of when you were supposed to press the button (especially since the game constantly slows down ridiculously on SOME hits and doesn’t store a lot of inputs, ruining some timing) gets to be really frustrating; and if the damage was not so high, it would be more forgivable. Losing because Deejay hit me once (combo - dizzy - combo) because my tiger knee registered as a low tiger shot (even though you can hear all the correct joystick clicks), for instance, was rather lol.

VF doesn’t belong in your example. It’s one of THE most execution-heavy fighters, once you’re using option-select techniques like ECD and ETEG. It gets to be like MvC2…half or more of your inputs are just to move around and have nothing to do with attacking.

Speaking of high damage, VF has just as many half-damage or worse combos as ST, and they happen more often. Throws overall do about the same percentage of damage as ST and escaping them is harder, not to mention Wolf’s half-damage throws/throw combos. Not to mention Lei-Fei knocking you into a wall, not to mention El Blaze 75% damage throw uncombos at your back, not to mention Kage/Akira/Wolf/etc. ringouts, and so on…

[MuKen]

“This pepper beef is too damn spicy!!”

I think this topic deserves the same response that got.

[Mrjoemama]

I LOVE the fact the ST and HDR have high damage.

Both these games are about making sure you don’t make a mistake and punish when others do (like most fighting games), one or two mistake in a round and your dead which isn’t the case in most other fighters.

The margin for error is low and IMO makes fights that much more intense.

[Unreallystic]

100% darn right.

Critical amen.

I think that the relative minimalism of available options combined with the abundance of strong tactics and the general consistency of interactions makes flow and momentum and advantageous situations such a concrete idea, and makes strategy so black-and-white; the in-game action is so often directly representative of who currently holds mental dominance. The psychological battle in ST just feels so pure.

Every (good) competitive game will reward the ability to predict your opponent correctly, but in ST, more than any other fighting game I’ve ever touched, the win has been sealed the moment one of you understands the other. In ST, the overall mindgame controlling the flow of the match is usually more important than any mini-mindgames involving little tricks and guessing games for tiny isolated incidents, whether the individual consequences are high or low. I definitely understand and respect why someone might prefer the minute detail and technicality and sheer abundance of these mini-mindgames, but to me and most diehard ST players I don’t think it could ever feel quite as meaningful or as grand.

Feeling and reading your opponent, as well as disguising or constantly adapting your own intentions are such crucial aspects of the game, skills as important as any of the “classical” fundamentals, because knowing what the other person is thinking will virtually always decide the game.

Even after years and years, ST is still way too hot.

I’m going to be real, call me scrubby, I don’t care anymore honestly.

1. Alot of you guys are annoying with your egos :rolleyes: it actually became painful reading alot of you guys post - "oh yeah your a scrub if you aren’t like this and I never lose to someone who isn’t as good as me yadda yadda yadda*

2. I hate the damage in the game for reasons listed previously, I can utterly dominate someone, and if I make one-misstep ‘its an even game’ with me now on the defensive after all that work I put in to put them in a bad situation. With Chun-Li because of the Air SBK, there are times where I want to do the AA kicks - and get an air SBK instead, just because of the ease of motion d/b to u/f and kick is BAD I tell you heh…yet this simple mistake even with almost full health will almost garuntee costing me the game.

3. On the flipside I 100% agree with the quoted post. I like the high damage because it adds alot to the mind game, and once you’ve figured someone out you usually destroy them. We…err…I’ve (as the resident not-elite player :rolleyes:) had the time where we’ve come into a room, lost a few rounds, see how the person works and go from losing to getting almost double perfects w/ Rage Quit. Once you figure someone out the only reasons you lose are err at least for me is either poor execution or they have some air-tight trap that I can’t seem to escape see Honda/Gief vs Chun-li in or near corner

All in all its part of the game, I don’t want it changed either way, I’ve adapated to it, but I’m not going to be an ass and act like neither side has a legitamate point.

• :bluu:

[kraal]

I have been a long time q3 osp player, where the situation is pretty much the same. Very powerful weapons that rip you instantly sometimes.
But guess what, it was recognized as having one of the most steep learning curve, exactly like ST.
Good players are those who do not make mistakes, not those who can play with style or get combos out… And ST, like q3, punishes mistakes immensely.

I like this, but I understand that relaxed, laid back players would prefer not having to concentrate the whole game, and being able to impose their superiority without sweating too much.

[Unreallystic]

So I took a step back from this game to play SF4, and after reviewing SF4 in my head like 3 times a day I’ve come to the conclusion that…

The damage in THIS game is 100% correct. Sure it gets annoying at times, especially when you get put into a bad position early in a match, or when you make ‘a’ mistake, or Fei Long lands an attack (-_-)’ - but one of my biggest gripes next to the nerfing of throws about SF4 is that dmg is a joke. I can make 5 mistakes as Chun-Li and WIN the match. I can continually make poor decscions and walk away the winner just so long as I do more dmg when I connect. Poor fireball execution and I only lose 1/20 of my health from Sagat’s tiger shot. The minds games exist in SF4, but its so much LOWER than this game. The more I play SF4, the more I want it to play like HDR - and that has to do with three things - one of which is dmg scaling.

• :bluu:

[kevgeez]

thats why i love this game, everything in this game hurts, unlike certain games where moves outside of supers and combos did squat

Just go ahead and say SF4.
We all know the damage scale there sucks ass.

The damage in ST and HDr is very realistic.

Think about it like this: if you were in a Fight with Bruce Lee (Fei) how many second would it take before you were needing smelling salts?

Or Iron Mike Bison…how many of his punches could a person take?
fuck that lol

Also the throw damage is superb…playing SF4 has made me love HDr so much more.
People arent scared to block and do moves late because throwing isnt exactly a penalty in new wave games like SF4…its like “oh i just got thrown, meh”

[Khiempossible]

I fucking hate throw damage in SF4.

[System_1]

If you reduce the damage of the super, what’s the point of the super? Your super was originally designed to not only make the game that much more in-depth, but also to give highly skilled opponents playing other highly skilled opponents a window for “come-back” making a match-up that much more exciting.

I think Blanka’s bite does very extensive damage. Gammy & Guile’s ground slams do too. I think some forms of chip damage seem extreme.

Overall though, I think the damage factor is right where it should be. I get annoyed by sweeps doing a good 10-15% damage, but it’s all about mind games, so that just comes with the territory.