To critique or not to critique

[aerialgroove]

*Originally posted by phil sifu *
**… and there arent any “MASTER ARTISTS” here at these forums… nobody has been crowned "KING ARTIST"
all of us are still on the same road of learning… some are just further ahead than others … but we have all been there… everyone of us… there is not one single person here who can say that…"oh when i was 8 years old i just picked up a pencil and sketched out the whole cast of streetfighter zero perfectly…and thats how i started drawing…"
weve all made mistakes… **

look at Akiman’s old drawings of Street Fighter, they don’t look that good at all. And over the years he got way better, you just have to keep on drawing.

[Dreaded_Fist]

*Originally posted by BloodUrien *
**bump **

This is late, but why did you bump a stickied thread?

I dont know about you guys but a man has came along that goes by the name of SFMC who has revolutionize the way we critique. He paint/draw over the picture to show mistakes and then post smiley faces to show that he’s good natured.

[crazydiamond]

*Originally posted by aerialgroove *
**
look at Akiman’s old drawings of Street Fighter, they don’t look that good at all. And over the years he got way better, you just have to keep on drawing. **

I used to think Akiman’s old drawings weren’t good, but now that my eye is finer tuned I think his old drawings are AMAZING.

[System_1]

grrr… Goikigirl… you… and your sister… you’ve made me develop a very ugly style of criticising people.

Here’s my story:

Back on f.net every time I wrote some remarks about Goukigirl’s or her sister’s art I was replied with constant flaming. I kinda got friendly with her sister, but Goikigirl declared IN PUBLIC that she and her sister PURLY HATE me.

Since then I pretty much compliment an artist for every tiny good thing in their drawing while criticising their art. That’s even if the drawing is completely horrid.

I’d use SFMC’s method, but I really don’t think I’d run Open Canvas or PSP every time I want to comment a drawing.

[D.Z]

umm…where are the pictures in this tread? i’d like to see some art from the any of the people mentioned thru out the entire agruement. links anyone? links?

[Ryu_Shinnosuke]

grrr… Goikigirl… you… and your sister… you’ve made me develop a very ugly style of criticising people.

What??

I’m not trying to stir up anything, but for as long as i can remember, you were criticising artwork from the beginning. A lot of it wasn’t really bad-bad, just bad enough for some people to take the wrong way. You probably weren’t aware that you were offending people, so i’ll give you the benifit of doubt.

Here’s my story:

Back on f.net every time I wrote some remarks about Goukigirl’s or her sister’s art I was replied with constant flaming. I kinda got friendly with her sister, but Goikigirl declared IN PUBLIC that she and her sister PURLY HATE me.

Umm…You’re wrong…We were never known for flame others; especially when it came to artwork. Uhhh, if you consider defending yourself or your drawings as flaming, then maybe we did “flame” you I always thought that flaming was being a hater, though :xeye:

Our artwork has been trashed talked 100s of times by lots of people, but it was embarrassing more than anything else. When we did get mad, it was because random trolls dissed it just to do it(Even if they didn’t even draw or drew very awful). And if it weren’t for those people who bashed it & gave us tips(Not the trolls, but the other people), we would not have gotten much better, IMO. I agree, we did get mad at you a few times, mainly because you were always pointing out bad things about our’s & other’s artwork, while your’s wasn’t too great, either(No offense, i’m sure you’re a GREAT artist now). You didn’t really give out tips or compliments,
either And we certainly never said we hated you :sad: Remember when i PMed you, trying to be your friend because we had a lot in common(My sis was cool with you, too because we learned how to understand you and we loved your sprite rips)? We started e-mailing eachother very often, but we lost contact after something very big happened in 2003, which shattered me & my family’s lives…Life hasn’t been too good this year, too…I’m wasting away and can’t do a darn thing about it. But oh well…I’m more for defending other’s than myself.

Since then I pretty much compliment an artist for every tiny good thing in their drawing while criticising their art. That’s even if the drawing is completely horrid.

That’s okay, but i think it’s best to point out an equal amount of good & bad things(Not harsh), just my opinion, BTW:smile:

I’d use SFMC’s method, but I really don’t think I’d run Open Canvas or PSP every time I want to comment a drawing.

Well, i’m just trying to tell you that things weren’t like how you thought they were… We never hated you or anyone else, so i can’t see how you could say such a thing…We never lie to cover up crap, because that’s just plain pathetic and IMO, lies only causes more throuble. I’m not saying you’re a bad person or anything, either… I know you’re good, we just all make/made mistakes. Anyway, peace:smile:

P.S. PM me if you want to say more about this subject.

[System_1]

grrr… Goikigirl… you… and your sister… you’ve made me develop a very ugly style of criticising people.

1. You(or atleast on F.net you do) criticise harshly/nitpick just if something was not perfect…! If memory serves me right, You attacked my Gouken’s daughter drawing just because you didn’t like the colors and you said you like ‘Real’/Canon character of the SF storyline. You also said some guy’s Cammy drawing looked nothing like her because she looked ‘Too Cute’ for you and you posted an Official CAPCOM drawing of Cammy just to prove him wrong plus said: “Does that look anything like her?”(insulting the guy’s drawing)… Pathetic…!
   Do not insult us while trying to protect yourself…!

Here’s my story:

Back on f.net every time I wrote some remarks about Goukigirl’s or her sister’s art I was replied with constant flaming. I kinda got friendly with her sister, but Goikigirl declared IN PUBLIC that she and her sister PURLY HATE me.

2. We do not flame people for criticing our art and I do not remember EVER stating that i or my sister hated you, it seemed more of a good Friendship to me…
   If we ever said we dislike you it was probably your rudeness(check above)…

Since then I pretty much compliment an artist for every tiny good thing in their drawing while criticising their art. That’s even if the drawing is completely horrid.

3. WOW! You sure must have changed since f.net then!
   Ahh yes, and why mention something 2 Years ago?
   To stir up crap? Definitely…! :lame: :tdown:

P.S. This was not a flame.

[Dreaded_Fist]

OWNED!!! seriously, lets just post and take critiques. OFten I too get offended when my brother, SFMC, paint over my pictures w/o ever me asking him to do so. I spend 2 hours in photoshop and he just spend 10 minutes on a paint-over and it come out looking 10x better.

…nah, we cool.

[rook]

RS’ & GoukiGirl… I’m cool with you gals but damn that’s 2 long responses to an old post. If this goes further (ie; if Brain Digger shows up & the conversation gets heated) I’m gonna ask that you guys move this to PMs (or e-mail/AIM/MSN/etc).

---

Personally I feel that crits should be constructive - don’t shit on someone’s work, they put time and effort into it. Pointing out areas for improvement is fine; dropping in a 2 word post “that sucks” is not… I fail to see the benefit of such a post; there’s nothing sensible to discuss or defend.

Usually ppl on this board don’t give very harsh critiques, so you may have to explicitly ASK for it. More often than not you’ll get by with a “that’s cool” or something like that.

[System_1]

RS’ & GoukiGirl… I’m cool with you gals but damn that’s 2 long responses to an old post. If this goes further (ie; if Brain Digger shows up & the conversation gets heated) I’m gonna ask that you guys move this to PMs (or e-mail/AIM/MSN/etc).

---

Personally I feel that crits should be constructive - don’t shit on someone’s work, they put time and effort into it. Pointing out areas for improvement is fine; dropping in a 2 word post “that sucks” is not… I fail to see the benefit of such a post; there’s nothing sensible to discuss or defend.

Usually ppl on this board don’t give very harsh critiques, so you may have to explicitly ASK for it. More often than not you’ll get by with a “that’s cool” or something like that.

Don’t worry, i won’t reply to him if he comes back because i don’t want this thread to get ruined/closed.

Peace out to one of my fave fan artist!

[Kandoken]

Izzis still about Sweet? Where’s he bin at? Was he banned? I miss’im.

[rook]

Izzis still about Sweet? Where’s he bin at? Was he banned? I miss’im.

This thread existed way before Sweet posted on this board. There were… others before him.

I have no idea on where he is, though. AFAIK he’s not banned, and his last post was on 25 Oct 2004.

[Bengus]

I used to think Akiman’s old drawings weren’t good, but now that my eye is finer tuned I think his old drawings are AMAZING.

Akiman ?Capcom ??? Shoei !!! !!!

[DarkVegeta]

– Achan :wow: wasss happnin girl dont kno if u remember me but i had to reply when i saw ur SN :pleased: been quite a while since i been on, but i thought sum 1 said u had left the boards when i cheked in a year or so ago :sad: happy to see they were wrong

[kurokuma]

one thing i have always felt was pretty retarded is when something is created that is not supposed to be real, and critics start to bash that item for its unrealistic look, style, or details. anyone els think this is just plain stupid?

if you see a pic of and alien monster shooting a fire ball from his hands, there is nothing you can tell me about the size of his head compared to his body! there are no aliens like him that you can base the complaint off of.

if you see a drawing of blanka doing his electric shock attack you cannot tell me that his muscles are wrong, you know why? because even if the muscles don’t exist in the real world neither dose a big fuckin green mutated amazon monster man who can create electricity outta thin air!

theres no fact that anyone can say about morrigan isn’t she a succubus who can take souls and change dimensions? all you can do is compare her to the original, and even then you got nothing to say that is fact really because maybe the artist is trying to show the character in his or her own style.

anyway i don’t mind if people say “hey man, I’m not down with the big body little head that your alien dude is sportin” its a hell of a lot better than “aw man common! everyone knows that aliens bodies are 7 heads tall just like the great roman artist said!”

as far as I’m concerned art has no rules, none of it. the only time art has a rule is when you need to imitate another persons style EXACTLY. thats just my opinion but if there where rules in art we wouldn’t have even half of the cool things that we do in our everyday lives.

anyway just my opinion. of course everyone has the right not to like something in any kind of art. but fantasy is fantasy because it is not REAL and thats pretty much my point.

[kurokuma]

I’m typing this all over again, from scratch. Damn computer.X_X

I’m not qouting because there’s too much to qoute.

I agree with everything said by a-chan. My viewpoints, some anyway, you don’t want me to type them all, are as follows:

Fan art galleries are there to post your art and show it to other people. There’s no reason to critique unless someone asks for it. I think a critique without constructive criticism can’t even be called a critique. What’s the point of even commenting if you’re not going to give suggestions or a reference, something positive? No one wants to hear “Your art sucks.” Don’t point out every little flaw in someone’s work, it hurts, even for those people who are all “I feel no emotions. Words do not effect me.” it does, they just don’t show it.

EVERYONE started out “sub-standard” which is really basing their artwork off the majority’s, which is the same as basing it off of one person’s, making the words “sub-standard” and “average” really annoying and are just really worthless words in the English langauge, so limited… I don’t compare myself to “average” art, I compare myself to what my goal is. Critiques are there to help me reach that goal, but they can still hurt, if said harshly. Watch what you say. It shouldn’t matter wether somone is good or bad, it’s art, enjoy it, they’re putting it up because they want to. I started out crappy, Vango started out crappy, O’ Keffe, all the manga artists. There’s no reason to bash someone’s artwork. No one deserves that.

Another thing. People, grow up. You’d think that anyone above the age of 13, 15 and ESPECIALLY 18, would have the decency, the understanding of human emotions/ understanding of the consequences and common sense, which I know is hard to tap into for some people, to stop saying, “Oh, he did this.” “Hey, she did that.” There’s no reason to put it on the boards. There’s a PM system for a damn reason. Resolve your issues with people off the boards. Besides, these attacks and low blows just make you look like an idiot. It doesn’t make the person you’re attacking look worse, it makes you look worse. I, and I’m sure most others, though I don’t speak for them, don’t care what happened in the past. It’s the past. (Obviously, this doesn’t apply to repeat offenders, such as a serial killer, or those who have done horrible things.) Leave it alone, leave the person alone. No one wants to hear about it. I see it to every damn board I go to, except for a group of them where a group of people circulate through them and are mature, which is hard to find. Just stop the flames already. I don’t care, and my bet is that no one else does either.

I thank you very much if you’ve taken the time to read this post, as it has been long.

Any flames you may have can be directed at me by e-mail at: dragonflame327@yahoo.com

Do be aware that all flames will be read, laughed at, and then deleted.

-DF

PS- Society sucks. I know you agree.

not to mention that whatever harsh critics think is a flaw in someones art is THEIR opinion and NOT fact.

[Bob_Sagat]

not to mention that whatever harsh critics think is a flaw in someones art is THEIR opinion and NOT fact.

Generally yes, opinions are never facts. I don’t know what kind of criticism you’ve been getting, but if you’ve drawn the muscles on Blanka wrong, someone points it out and you just use the “he doesn’t exist in real life” argument, then you’re just taking the easy way out, imo.
You could also take someone’s criticism, and learn from it, use it to look at your own work differently.

If you’re gonna post your work, you’re doing it so people will see it. You also do it, because you want people to comment on it and tell you what a great job you’re doing. If they don’t like it, it’s indeed their opinion, but don’t tell people it’s all their fault that they didn’t like it.

SRK is one of the least criticizing boards I’ve ever seen in regards to art. Whenever you post something here, you’re bound to get at least 50% positive responses.
If you take people’s criticism and learn from it, just imagine how great your next drawing is gonna be. If you just keep saying people shouldn’t criticize your work, you’ll never get better and will stay at the same level for ever.

It’s as if you keep falling for the same tricks in a fighting game. If people tell you, don’t use Rog’s super against Gief, 'cause he’ll just block and piledrive the shit out of you, you don’t say: “It’s just a game, you should let my super just hit you every now and then or it isn’t fair!” Then you might as well just be playing against the computer.

Which is like showing your drawings only to your mom.

(This isn’t solely directed against you btw, I just happened to quote your post.)

EDIT: Of course, it’s never okay to just say: “Your art sucks.” Anyone who does that is a bitch. :arazz:

[Dreaded_Fist]

one thing i have always felt was pretty retarded is when something is created that is not supposed to be real, and critics start to bash that item for its unrealistic look, style, or details. anyone els think this is just plain stupid?

if you see a pic of and alien monster shooting a fire ball from his hands, there is nothing you can tell me about the size of his head compared to his body! there are no aliens like him that you can base the complaint off of.

if you see a drawing of blanka doing his electric shock attack you cannot tell me that his muscles are wrong, you know why? because even if the muscles don’t exist in the real world neither dose a big fuckin green mutated amazon monster man who can create electricity outta thin air!

theres no fact that anyone can say about morrigan isn’t she a succubus who can take souls and change dimensions? all you can do is compare her to the original, and even then you got nothing to say that is fact really because maybe the artist is trying to show the character in his or her own style.

anyway i don’t mind if people say “hey man, I’m not down with the big body little head that your alien dude is sportin” its a hell of a lot better than “aw man common! everyone knows that aliens bodies are 7 heads tall just like the great roman artist said!”

as far as I’m concerned art has no rules, none of it. the only time art has a rule is when you need to imitate another persons style EXACTLY. thats just my opinion but if there where rules in art we wouldn’t have even half of the cool things that we do in our everyday lives.

anyway just my opinion. of course everyone has the right not to like something in any kind of art. but fantasy is fantasy because it is not REAL and thats pretty much my point.

If art has no rules, then why would art schools exist? How are you suppose to get better at something if there are no rules? There is a method to everything, from anatomy to how a strand of hair should flow to the placement of text on an ad.

If something looks wrong then there’s probably a reason behind it. Fantasy art has to be grounded in reality to make it believable. I agree with Bob Sagat that you shouldn’t use the fact that because something doesn’t exist in real life that it shouldn’t have to look realistic. If you drew Blanka with sausages on his body instead of muscles, then yeah something’s gonna look off no matter what.

EDIT: I know your post was posted a year ago and like bob sagat, I’m just quoting your post. Not directed against you.

[System_1]

OK. interesting discussion… going on about critique…

I agree with Bob Sagat on the critiquing… that you post to get feedback. whether positive or negative feedback… it’s at the critic’s discretion. but as an artist, you have to take the both. I will add though, taking in a valid critique and one that’s just a waste of time is at the artist’s discretion.

as far as I’m concerned art has no rules, none of it. the only time art has a rule is when you need to imitate another persons style EXACTLY. thats just my opinion but if there where rules in art we wouldn’t have even half of the cool things that we do in our everyday lives.

kurokuma, there are rules and theories in art. but in my opinion. you gotta learn the rules to break them.

[pootnannies]

yeah there are rules obviously. you can bend them but if you bend them too much you break 'em and it’s noticeable as hell. to a degree, even abstract paintings have rules. hmm. maybe not…