Sentinel can’t even really be aggressive enough for that to be a problem. Doom always appears behind the point character with all of his assists so Sentinel would literally have to be right on top of you for that to happen. Sentinel is not really that much of a problem for Dante in general IMO because he has a ton of special moves plus huge sword normals to contend with his. Sentinel has to respect moves like hysteric once you get them out and all doom beam really does is cover the start up of hysteric and control the general horizontal axis as you get it out. The worst thing you would run into is a Sentinel that wants to tiger knee hard drive to blow up the assist and if you catch on that you can just block and make him waste meter. If anything I wouldn’t want to use hidden missles against Sentinel because Sentinel is one of the few characters that can reliably shut it down with tiger knee hard drive. What people don’t realize about hidden missles is that you have to protect hidden missles almost more than they protect you. Just like sent drones Doom is vulnerable to attack for at least 5 seconds and an invincible safe super like hard drive pretty much renders hidden missiles useless.
Against other characters like Magneto or Dorm you just have to take good shots with the assist. Basically don’t call doom beam if Magneto is nearing throw or c.L range of you. The idea is to give yourself space and call it so it covers the start up of hysteric so you can start your own offense with a teleport. If you were to try and call hidden missles against a Magneto he can always just flight air dash around to make the missles fly around him instead of actually hit him. Then if he closes the gap on you you can’t call hidden missles anymore because the terribly long vulnerable frames will have him getting beat up or dying. Hidden missles loses really hard to rushdown so you’re pretty much forced to play lame to keep it relatively safe as an assist. It doesn’t really let you transition to offense against a lot of characters as easily as doom beam. The best use I’ve seen of hidden missles is on lame out teams like Task/Doom/Deadpool or Task/Doom/Ammy.
In general once Doom gets the beam on screen it’s really tough to hit him without using an aerial beam super. He’s pretty much in safe recovery state once the beam finishes its active frames and the beam generally gets out on screen a lot faster allowing you to get more use of it. Unlike hidden missles where you have significant start up for him to get rushed down on before the missiles even come down. Even when they do come down the opponent can just block and now you’re worried about calling hidden missles again because if you call them again you could probably lose Doom. That also limits the amount of times you get to use hidden missiles to cover your teleports and specials whereas with doom beam every 4 seconds you got another team to spam on the screen to set up a teleport mix up, stinger to teleport lockdown or hysteric to teleport lockdown.
There’s really just no way that hidden missiles is better for Dante than beam because Dante’s projectiles just aren’t fast and lame enough to warrant it and the slow start up before they fall down doesn’t really give him a lot of chances to set up mix up and pressure. With doom beam you get that horizontal coverage very fast to start a mix up from near full screen with anything.
Whoa there, chief. Never said Missiles > beam, for dante. Regardless of that good-in-theory youtube video, Beam = an instant crossup, which is enough to put it above and beyond any slow assist.
I said Missiles are better /against/ Dante. Teleport blows beam up all day.
That said, I don’t know what you’re talking about, as far as Sent goes. Sentinel loves to be ontop of you with jH / Fly shenanigans. L Rocket Punch will still blow up either of those assists on reaction, from Sent’s comfort zone; that’s a threat a whole lot more tested and practical than TK Hard Drive business.
I know you didn’t say that I was just throwing it out there in general.
As far as missles beating teleport…it depends I guess. If Dante gets enough time to call the missles out so Doom doesn’t take any far ranged hits it’s not bad. Dante’s teleport is a natural lame counter any way since Dante doesn’t have anything projectile wise without assists that will really compete with the lameout of other teams. Against a Dante player with or without assists teleports are something you should be regularly looking out for any way. Like especially when he’s in a neutral position from a while away or has you in a block string.
You don’t really need assists to beat Sentinel unless he’s up on point loaded with assists. Which is rare because most of the time people are going to put Sent in the back so they can maximize drones for their pixie characters. Just doing basic blocking and pushblocking will take care of most of what Sentinel has to offer if he isn’t chock full of assists. Get him to whiff a normal and s.L punish it and have hammers out there occasionally to keep his offense in check. Sentinel is designed as an assist killer any way (at least 2 supers that will kill your assists no problem and projectile invincible normals) so fighting Sentinel mostly involves sparing use of assist any way. His supers even make teleporting risky but in general that all doesn’t really matter because basic blocking and whiff punishing tactics beat assistless Sent. He loses pretty hard to XF guard cancels also.
In general I never found Sentinel on point to be much of an issue. Nice assist but he’s basically a clunky worse Dante. Reliant on mid ranged control but doesn’t really have the technicalities or rushdown capabilities of him. He’s nice at being lame and trying to hit you with easy mode TOD’s but he also loses to lame.
Thanks for the help guys ^^ I think I should practice this as my main team for now. Hell, probably will still be a solid team in UMvC3.
Right now I’m looking for simple ways to get decent damage off of Doom beam. So far damage scaling has been painful, but I guess that’s to be expected with the beam.
I’m wondering if Dante/Ammy/Felicia will work in UMvC3. I never played MvC3 online (I rarely play fighters online since my patient with lag wears thin easily).
So far it looks like nothing bad has happened that would hurt this team. Though supposedly Felicia got faster… the hell? That’ll require a little lab work to re-work timing for everything, but that’s more an annoyance than a issue.
Also, could I maybe get a few opinions on Cold Star vs most of Dante’s favorite assists? Because this assist (so far) have been fucking awesome for him, and if it gets better than this, I’d love to know how. Considering that Cold Star can Combo Extent, Cross-Up, protect Hysteric>Teleport and does everything else Dante needs.
The best way to guarantee real damage off of beam is to force people to block it and not get hit by it. Putting people in block strings and then calling the beam sets up 50/50 high low mix ups with teleport after they block. The whole point of those strings that I put on video is to get the opponent to block them so they set up mix ups that will give you full damage combos and not riding off the scaling of the beam on hit. You just wanna use the beam to keep your specials safe or force them to block the beam to set up mix ups. You can use the beam from so far away that a lot of the time you can use one beam that they’ll get hit by to set up a teleport and then once beam is ready again you put them in a beam block strings with stinger, bold cancel into teleport and just go from there.
Does that mean if I’m fighting a Dante+Doom, chances are its better to actually get hit if I think the mix-up will open me? It sounds like you’d take damage that way.
It depends. At close range…you’re better off just blocking because you can create attack strings/hit confirms that start with the a s.M+beam assist that combo on hit or block into the beam and then into a teleport or a bold cancel teleport from the stinger and continue from there. Like once I force you to block a s.M you’re in a mix up that you can’t even advance guard out of. If you get hit by the s.M the combo I do will only lose like 100k in damage compared to what a normal unscaled combo would do. Like once you block the s.M you’re forced to deal with a mix up that if it lands will ut you in an unscaled combo since the beam will be off screen at that point but you’ll still be stuck in guard stun. If you want to try to avoid damage at close range you can try chicken blocking or purposely jumping without blocking to throw off the spacing of the combo afterwards but if I catch on to that and just go for standard strings you’ll take unscaled hits any way. At close range if you’re chicken blocking or jumping around I’m just generally going to wait for you to land and then stagger you with c.L’s so you can’t jump or advance guard without getting hit by a full ground combo.
If I’m going for like the near full screen beam+stinger to teleport shit…yeah you’re probably better off getting hit because he can’t get a full combo from that range and at worst you’ll be put in ground tech mix up that you recover pretty fast from any way. Blocking a stinger with beam following it basically means you’re getting put into a mix up that leads to unscaled damage from near full screen away.
Looking to craft a Dante team. I’ve played a lot of Wesker, She-Hulk, Taskmaster, Doom, and Spencer.
Any suggestions? I’m trying to stay away from adding Haggar to the mix. Good as his assist is, if your point characters don’t do enough damage it’s almost impossible to come back with him alone. Same with Tron, in a lot of situations.
Dante/Wesker/Doom would work pretty good. She Hulk/Dante/Task or Doom would work nice also. First team gives both Dante and Wesker strong assists to work with using doom beam and also gives Dante a low hitting assist to add further to his mix up game via unblockables so he wont have to get within cross up range or teleport range to create legit mix ups. She Hulk, Dante Task or Doom works pretty well too since either Task (hori arrows) or Doom (beam) help her lockdown people on the ground and get through advance guards. Plus She Hulk’s other issue is she has trouble with people who have the ability to fly up in the air to lame her out which Dante’s Jam Session helps take care of.
Hmm, I like it. Wesker + plasma beam is proven imba, but I’m less sure with Dante. It seems like the soft knockdown effect on hit makes it difficult to follow up with Dante.
And I’ve always been curious about the Wesker/Dante unblockable. How do you set it up? I’ve always used Wesker assist as a combo extender, never seen it in action otherwise due to the short range.
Doom beam you learn to hit confirm off of with practice. Most of the time you land it it’s going to be after a teleport any ways so you can just hit j.H while still in the air and then land into s.M into whatever. Dante’s teleport is faster than Wesker’s and tracks so you can technically use it with Doom beam from farther away than even with Wesker. Ideally you want the person to block the beam because that sets up a free high low that won’t get damage scaled. Which a lot of times you’ll have time to follow up with another air dash M if they block that also.
Unblockable is easy to set up because Wesker’s OTG shot is literally the fastest low hitting assist in the game. All you do is call Wesker right before you air dash M/H and it works as long as they didn’t jump first. You can also call Wesker assist, then immediately teleport and come down on top of them with air H/M to cause unblockable also.
Anyone else have serious problems with this character? Gun spam forces you to work so hard and be a genius just to get to him. Once you’re in, the bastard actually has good normals, like his overhead, which may be unsafe (?) but the active hitbox comes out before the attack even descends. This game is so retarded.
Granted, most of my problems stem from often trying to start Iron Man, who has more of a problem with zoning than Dante does, but Dante still seems shit tier when it comes to dealing with zoning w/o the right Assist.
edit
Also, what do you guys feel is the best way to blow up Hulk b. Medium spam?
Against Deadpool…um…haven’t really fought him a lot but your best bet is to just turn on Devil Trigger. If you’re ever in a match where you know your only option is to get a lucky teleport that they might air throw, then turn on the DT. You pretty much can stop the firefight of any character once you turn on DT since thunderbolt gives you the most durable beam in the game that you can shoot 3 times and can’t be advanced guarded to push you away. Allowing you time to get in on the zone after the hits/chip from thunderbolt. Thunderbolt shuts down most assists also. Vortex is like a mini hard drive you can throw around and if it hits in the air…free j.S to bnb.
For the other question…reverb shock. Use reverb shock anytime you’re not sure of…anything that’s ground based basically. It’s the only fast multi hitting move you have, has extremely high priority and starts up at the same speed as your light attacks. Going into fireworks pushes people back so you can start calling projectile assists and hysteric to set up teleports again. Fireworks covers up the entire horizontal and vertical space in front of you outside of super jumps.
Against characters like She Hulk who like to spam moves with really low profile fast hit boxes like her c.H, reverb shock is very good to have to keep her in check. A lot of your standard normals including your s.L have whiff recovery and don’t stay active long enough that her movement can easily take advantage of. Reverb shock activates fast enough and stays active long enough to blow up a lot of bullshit on the ground. As long as it doesn’t whiff you’re good to go. If it does whiff turn on DT and stay safe.
I have always found Deadpool to be really free… especially with Dante. I haven’t fought many good ones but Deadpool really doesn’t have much in terms of surprises. Very obvious gameplan.
Reverb Shock is godlike, spam that shit as much as you possibly can.
I just go mash on qcf+L as soon as his sword fully extends. It’ll come out eventually. If you wanna make it easier for yourself just XF cancel the snapback recovery and then go for it. It’s always worth it to turn on XF if the reward is a mix up that will likely kill Phoenix.
I was running Tron Sent Haggar as an experiment, and has some great success. The main problem is the team is ice cold to Phoenix, dark or not. To rectify this, but maintain the spirit of the idea, I’ve decided to switch in Dante for Sent. Haven’t gotten to play it much yet so can’t comment on the effectiveness. But it will be interesting, post DHC, to have Dante with 2 GTFO assists. The weirdest part is it feels like a strong setup (when Dante is out), but then if I was just like “Hey guys, howabout Dante Tron Haggar!?” it would be a rousing “That’s redundant, you need some range.” <shrug> It’s at least worth a try, though. Any hit while Tron’s on point PERIOD, with the exception of throws midscreen, is TOD. And that includes connected assists. Drones really helped the pressure, and I’ll miss them, but Dante gives me SOME game versus phoenix. It wasnt even like the old team was so bad against keepaway. But superjump into 3-6 tracking FBs is like 9-1 against all 3 characters. And not good enough a mixup on snap (since landing a hit is easy).