well honestly I believe viper can kill everyone in that fashion, but the timing is tight and all it takes is a couple frames off and bam naked viper or mistimed dante and you lose. I’ve OCV’d so many people with Viper but its like if I don’t have a full head of steam its hard to do work with her. Seismos only go so far as good a tool they are. I definetly won’t quit her as I feel mass nerfs are coming and she will miss it (plus her playstyle is just the shit). I’ll probably switch out ammy or something as I think that might have been the weakest link. I understand where your coming from tho. I feel both teams are very strong where one is predicated on viper/dante destroying people while the other having threats from almost any range, both are otk teams too. Drones are also just silly with dantes massive amounts of tools and I feel Sentinel is much better than people give him credit for.
If they don’t nerf viper they must be the worst game developers ever.
Putting some work into a new team right now and would appreciate some thoughts on it. I was inspired by Richard Nguyen’s Dante/Haggar team.
I’m trying out Ammy (Cold Star), Dante (Weasel Shot), Haggar (Double Ham Fists). The basic idea behind the team is that I want to be favored in the neutral game most of the time, and just about* every touch can kill (*screw you, Dante ground throw).
Both Ammy (in glaive stance) and Dante are very hard to approach as rushdown with Lariat assist, and they aren’t really reliant on others to get in or make something happen. Both can also OTG off Lariat connections into good combos.
The team makes good use of the DHC glitch. Ammy can glitch off her throws or counters. She can also TAC to Dante, and he can glitch it back to her. Dante can also TAC to Haggar who can glitch it back to him for the finisher. Even without the glitch though, Ammy can double super on her own for 800k+, and Dante has his own touch of death combos.
I’ll be blowing X-Factor early, since I definitely don’t want to be stuck with it on Haggar later. Main purpose of it is to make the most out of a happy birthday, punish something on block (like a Wolverine Dive Kick), or just ensure that I build a bunch of meter while killing a higher health character rather than spending a bunch.
Against Phoenix teams, I should have the advantage against her starters due to the Lariat assist, which should lead to a few chances at snapping her in to mix-ups. I may start Dante against those teams rather than Ammy to get the most out of those mix-ups on her as she comes in, and to stay on her if she escapes and starts jump-back-fireballing. Unfortunately if she hits 5 bars, that doesn’t leave me in a great spot. Ammy’s supers or Devil Trigger Vortex are probably my best bet, or an X-Factor punish to something.
I’m trying Weasel Shot over Jam Session because it lets me do instant overhead mix-ups with Ammy easily and it’s pretty safe.
Any comments on it? My worst fear is Ammy getting blown up with X-Factor into a mix-up on Dante that kills him too, since they’re both lower health characters. But I think the odds of that are low because of how capable both are with Haggar lariat assist backing them up. I know some other people play Ammy/Dante as well, so any tips on the pairing would be appreciated.
If you’re worried about low health in this game pick up She Hulk/Hulk/Thor oh wait…
Don’t worry about the health…you get hit in this game when you fuck up on your spacing…that’s what happens. You’re never going to block everything because the mix ups are too dangerous to block consistently. You just have to have better spacing than your opponent so you can have control of who gets mixed up. The game’s damage output is ridiculously high any way. Even if you have a high health character if you get put in a reset after a combo and get hit again…welcome to die. Wolverine XF1 has the ability to back to back kill 2 characters no matter how high their health is. You can put Wesker/She Hulk/Akuma on your team and if Wolverine hits Wesker and XF kills him he has enough time and meter to kill off She Hulk also.
Ammy and Dante are both great characters at controlling space and that’s ultimately what you need to keep yourself from getting hit left and right by dumb shit in this game. With Haggar assist backing you up you really have to drop the ball to get hit.
Yeah you might as well use Weasel Shot as your assist for Dante because Ammy is pretty much designed to be able to fight both offensively and defensively without assists. There’s very little she can’t do and has the game’s fastest normals. Weasel shot will just kinda help as something to keep you in on advance guards and set up mix ups once you get in.
The best characters in this game minus She Hulk and Wesker are the low health ones (well the low health ones that dont suck). Nobody goes “well Magneto is decent and has his good matches but he has low health”. No they go “man I can’t ever see WTF that guy is doing and when i try to hit him disruptah disruptah”. Yeah…fuck health. It’s all about being cheap. If you’re the cheapest and can space your cheap shit well you can’t lose.
I think if anything, the team will probably have good match-ups against characters like Wolverine, Wesker and She-Hulk. Standard rules apply, just don’t get hit :lol:.
I’m most concerned about teams where I have to be the aggressor, like Phoenix teams or other keep-away teams. Ammy/Dante have the tools to deal with it I think, but I just have to figure them out.
Well if it’s against a Phoenix or lame team you might as well have Dante up first because he has better tools for closing the gap than Ammy does with his teleport and Devil Trigger specials. Ammy can fight most firefights pretty well herself but against a Phoenix team specifically yeah you’ll want Dante to just get in there and do his damage and snap Phoenix in for the mix up if possible.
What DevilJin says about this is pretty true. If Ammy gets blown up by X-Factor, it’s not going to matter how much life your next character has. What will matter: aerial movement options. Dante is actually much better equipped for living through mix-ups as he comes in than most characters. He has the ability to double jump or air dash while coming in. Not only that, but he has an invincible attack. Yes, he will die if he gets hit while coming in, but he’s way less likely to get hit than most.
I used to play Dante first in my team (Hulk/Dante/Doom), but I decided that Hulk was too vulnerable while coming in if Dante was killed. He’s a high life character, but one of the easiest in the game to mix-up as he comes in. I feel much better now that Dante is 2nd in line.
I agree, there’s no saving anyone really if you get mixed up during X-Factor. My main worry there is that since I have Haggar as my third, there’s not really a chance for a comeback even if I start it with 4 Bars and Level 3 X-Factor of my own. That’s why I was afraid of that situation specifically.
Unless I pull an AndyOCR and OCV entire teams with my Haggar, anyway.
I used to use Haggar, my mental gameplan was to use him third, and get him in there when my 2nd char fell to 50-75% red health, either by cross counter, DHC, or raw tag, or other setup. That way I have an assist to help Haggar, and I don’t have to use him 3rd while still getting to use Haggar’s assist with my 2 other chars. It hardly ever worked though.
Haggar has some comeback factor. Lariat>XF and Level 3 grab is all he needs to not be a shittastic anchor like Tron. Still gets lamed out easily but he is much more dangerous. Good haggars can make stuff work.
hey guys i was wondering what type of assist do you guys think all dantes should have besides a lockdown assist?
They both have lvl 3 grabs. Lariat is handy but easily punishable, if you throw it out the only way to make it safe is to XF cuz his other supers aren’t invincible. I think they’re pretty even as crappy anchors. At least against a character that can zone or run half way decent, or against someone who blocks.
Protection and something to cover teleports.
Any type of projectile assist is pretty much manditory unless you’re playing with Phoenix where all you really need is Tron or Haggar covering you till you build 3 plus meters. As time goes on though you’ll probably see protection assists like Tron or Haggar used more often with Dante because when his gap is closed he has very limited options to get people away that don’t involve guess ground or air throw. Projectile assists are useful for Dante’s cover but you have to use a bit more preemptively and can easily get you 2 for oned on a bad call especially if you’re already near the corner. With Haggar or Tron as long as you call them before they hit you or force you to block you’re good for getting out of a bad situation most of the time. He has enough tools to keep people spaced but against a fast pixie character all it takes is one get in and your slow start up normals will have you frame trapped for a while and then once the assists get called good luck cuz push block wont help you anymore once they enter the field.
You definitely want to have a projectile assist covering your projectiles and teleports because although unassisted teleport gimmicks work on bad players to instantly get you in from anywhere on the screen good Magneto players are going to stop throwing projectiles and wait for you to teleport and grab you up. You can cover this by having a full screen beam projectile like Iron Man/Magneto/Doom as anchor to cover the teleport before you do it from full screen giving you safe full screen approaches (as long as the beam actually made contact with the opponent first). Iron Man and Doom specifically also give you access to block strings that even when push guarded last so long that you can high low the person with a teleport and then left right/high low mix them again. These projectile assists will also help you to win firefights against typical Magneto/Sent drones stuff pretty easy. Charge up level 2 air play and call the beam assist repeatedly, they gotta go in or they won’t be able to use sent drones or generally win the firefight with the low durability on L disruptah that level 2 charged play beats in durability while beam assists blow up the start up of sent drones calls.
The last thing that I think is very useful for Dante is a low hitting assist. You pretty much have to set up Dante’s mix up game with his slow start up projectiles or assists and if you can’t get in range to cross people up with his air dash it’s nice to have a low hitting assist to allow him a more powerful game for getting people off of block. With a low hitting assist your basic air dash forward pressure can become unblockable instead of just the easy to read “block high then block low” stuff that happens when you’re not in range to cross up.
His mix up game without assists or projectiles is pretty much reliant on air dash normal to hammer cancel or c.L block string to TK hammer gimmicks or ground throw gimmicks. If you can land a ground throw and learn the timing you can throw a projectile or a projectile assist and then teleport to land on top of them no matter which way they roll and get a free mix up. That’s why it’s important to have a strong projectile assist at the very minimum so you always have access to a mix up anytime you get in range to land an offense or land a ground throw.
Dante/Zero is pretty retarded I’ve seen the light.
How are you guys dealing with Zero as Dante? He seems to be one of my harder match ups. It just seems hard to start an offense against him given the range and speed of his normals, not to mention the buster.
Zero is really annoying when using Dante. He can get in real quick and body you for free. Once he gets in, you cannot push a button since that will get you bodied free because zero’s normals speed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dante’s.
Your best bet is to try to zone him out. Rockets and air play are real good against him. If you have an assist like Sentinel to help complement your zoning, you can actually mount some sort of offense against him. Don’t throw anything when he’s sitting on buster though as he can just command dash>buster>sweet dreams. If you think he’s going for command dash>J.H, you can hammer him.
There’s not much Dante can do to mount an offense against Zero on his own. Rockets>DT teleport is pretty much the best you can do. Dante fairs better in DT though because of psycho crusher, which is fully invincible and will beat anything Zero is throwing out there and lead to a kill.
Since I play Haggar, I have a much easier time against Zero than I should, but this is easily a very annoying matchup.
Yea, I kept trying a bunch of different things to knock him out of the air so I could start my own offense, but it just wasn’t working. Occasionally I could throw up Acid Rain and catch him, but the damage scaling on trying to combo off of the actual rain is ridiculous.Then I tried AA with Twister, but the start up just is too slow same with Crystal. I’ll try just filling the screen with as many projectiles as possible.
Oh yeah I forgot about multi lock. If he’s sitting full screen and charging his buster, take the time to charge yours as well! Charged multilock is really annoying to get around.
All I ever do against Zero is hammer. Literally. Sometimes mix that up with doom beam assist to hysteric to set up safe offense on him. I don’t go anywhere near him without projectile assist plus projectile special or pray mash on hammer. Crystal and Jam Session to keep his teleports in check helps also. Generally just zone him with projectile assist plus special and if he gets too close, mash on hammer. His movement speed isn’t quite as fast as say Wolverine’s so it’s easier to do lame shit to keep him out and he can’t air throw you quite as easily. His low ass health makes it so that one landed hammer or teleport mix up covered with projectiles is worth the risk and easily puts him out of the game with a day one combo.
Fast projectile assist like doom beam or iron man unibeam is ideal to have because it allows you to safely teleport near him to start an offense and it covers the ridiculous start up of your projectile specials to allow you to approach him without needing to turn on DT. Turning on DT to help you against Zero isn’t a bad idea though since that’s free chip with thunderbolt and lets you swing around vortex against his retarded normals and charged buster. The other ideal assist to have is obviously haggar/tron so you can get more lives against getting hit period.
If you have to poke at him make sure you poke at him from near max range. His s.M has nearly as much range as your s.L and is one frame faster. His s.L is 5 frame start up and has almost as much range as his s.M. Once Zero gets within a certain range get ready to call Haggar/Tron or block and pushblock for your life. You’re not getting that s.L out before he gets his lazer normal out once he gets too close.