Usually when i throw penetrating fists(PS) back to her it’s on wakeup, after she threw her own fireball or stored one, this way i hope to avoid reaction divekicks from her. Unlike before her super now moves forward quite a bit, and i’ve been punished from throwing a PS eventhough i thought i was far away enough. Can bait it with dash cancelling though. Juri can also hitconfirm a super from a low fireball, they see it hit and BAM, eat a super lol.
I think empty jumping if you are watchfull of your spacing can get you in, although a few of her pokes reach pretty far, and punish it on landing with say cr.mk xx ss.lp, especially her cr.hp because that is the one they want to use. But if they’re cr.hp happy i think empty jump is the way to go.
As for my rant with the MA>LK against divekick, my problem was when they did it fullscreen, gives a really bad angle for Jin. Midrange MA>LK works alot better against her divekicks
As for Juri’s cr.hp jump cancel “vortex” where they crossup or not and other shenanigans is pretty annoying, i’m in blockstun for a while so when i jump back it is too late, dashing forward doesn’t always work either and still get hit. Dashing backwards…yeah get put in same situation again. Just a raw special step will get you out completely though, but if you do it too late input doesn’t come out because she crossed up. Alpha counter doesn’t work either because she jump cancels it. MA>LK is another way to get out of this because it disregards with side she’s on, input still the same however i’ve literally had it happen 3 times in a row where i tried to get out with MA>LK and she did a crossup attempt she’ll hit the top of my head and i’ll get air reset, so upon landing i’ll just do MA>MP. Not sure if it beats the jump cancel into divekick. Maybe i’ll just have to wait it out and look for other gaps.
Sorry for getting crazy specific, trying to figure things out… O.o
Hey Everyone, I’m Back, And This Time, It’s with the dreaded JURI MATCHUP!!
V.S. Juri
Fighting Juri in SF x T is not like fighting Juri in SSF4. Juri before was very susceptible to reversals once she was too close. Now, with such tasty pokes, she’s beyond that. She’s stronger now, and your gameplan has to evolve. Luckily, Jin doesn’t give a DAMN about Juri! He is beyond her, and here, my friends, is why.
Juri Has Divekicks? JIN DOESN’T GIVE A DAMN!!
One of the new, scary things involving Juri is that if she doesn’t wanna use her full Dive Kick Animation, she doesn’t have to, and can safely get up in your face after such a move. Versus Jin though? This is one of the RISKIEST things she can do. Why? Two answers. If for one you anticipate her Dive Kick with the LSK, you can combo into full 300+ Damage. Or at the very least, knock her down and get closer to her. Something Juri can’t do too effectively is get away from Jin when he gets right there on top of her. Sure, he’s got nice pokes, but crouching Medium Kick and Crouching Medium Punch hit deep, and are pretty good for getting her out of her animations and into full combos. Now, there’s a second reason her dive kicks shouldn’t be cared about. Mental Alertness, friends. MA after a blocked Dive Kick will result in you ducking out of the way of a low poke, and then followed up with Swaying Willow? Juri just can’t hack it, and will wind up eating a powerful punch to the face. Hopefully even Staggering Her! If you REALLY wanna get fancy, use EX Power Stance into MA and Swaying Willow, for a perfectly timed Stagger Punch.
Juri has Reversal C. HP? **JIN STILL DOESN’T GIVE A DAMN!
And you shouldn’t either. Why? Because you don’t need to jump on Juri to get any damage. The biggest thing Juri wants is for you to mindlessly jump so she can easy mode you to death. So why don’t you ‘mindlessly’ walk up and grab her? And once she’s trying to reversal you when you get close, oops? Did you just jump over a crouching Medium Punch poke? Enjoy that free damage. And is she using crouching lights to get you to jump? BOOM! Swaying Willow. You all know the drill by now. There’s really nothing to worry about in this fight. Except maybe…
Juri has a free runaway Counter? Drum roll please… JIN! DOESN’T! GIVE! A! DAMN!!!
This is single-handedly one of the absolute best times to punish the fuck out of Juri. One, because it’s one of her only reversals without meter. On the other hand, its also one of the most unsafest. Why? Because Jin can punish it even if she sucessfully pulls it off. Lemme lay it down all smooth Jazz for you. B)
♪♫ ♪♫ If you’re laying the smack down on Juri/And that hoe needs a reversal in a hurry/just tap her knees once/with a simple old punch/then mental alertness and leaping side kick her in a flurry! ♪♫ ♪♫
To be more specific, Jin is able to just lightly tap Juri with a crouching light punch, then immediately cancel into Leaping Side Kick. Once she’s right above you, unleash the attack and enjoy all that damage you want. Or, you can just jump straight upwards and jump kick her in the face. People only think Juri is good because they don’t know how to deal with her. Well, with Jin, that’ll never be a problem again.
So enjoy this little tip I have on defeating the Spider Queen, I know I have, and I’ll never lose a battle against her ever again~
the best part about jumping lk when ryu likes to fearlessly jump in is that once you hit him with j.lk you can combo off of it
do it three times and he’ll never jump again. At this point, I might commit myself to anti shoto strategys because this game is quickly becoming predictable with ryu/kazuya teams…
its like how you would only see ken online during vanilla sf4 days or when ppl discovered OP sagat (tiger,tiger,tiger,tiger,tiger KNEE,tiger,tiger)
People don’t only think Juri is good because they don’t know how to deal with her. They think she is good because she really is good and she’s incredibly solid.
Jin has an extremely difficult time vs Juri at any range. At long range it is extremely easy for her to divekick your fireballs on reaction. At mid range, your pokes are completely ineffective against her. Your stand mk goes over her crouch mk and completely whiffs, your crouch mk loses to her crouch mk every single time. You can’t special step fireballs because hers hit low. Even if you have a read on a fireball and jump, she can just store it and at the very least block in time, if not anti-air.
At close range, MA to swaying willow is extremely overrated against her. It is very easy to bait out, and she can even c.hp to jump forward and you will have no options. The only thing you could do is MA to lk ender but, again, she can bait that out. Even when you are on the offensive, she can do her counter that sends her backwards. It starts up on the 1st frame so the only way to bait it would be with a throw which she can just EX pinwheel out of.
I think Jin is a very good character, but he is a lot like how I think of Makoto in AE. They are both very strong characters and they beat most of the characters badly, but they lose pretty badly to most of the top tier characters.
In this game, it seems like Jin has problems with, Ryu, Raven, Rufus, Kazuya, and Juri.
Karaba, though I respect your input, I must heavily disagree. You my friend don’t seem to know (I could be wrong) the deliciousness that is the Swaying Willow and how MA can duck out of the way of her pokes. Jin is certainly ‘not’ Makoto, and the only, the ONLY person Jin has had any trouble fighting is Rufus. due to his very powerful dive kicks and the ambiguity of his cross up. But so far, so do most other characters. Raven’s pokes are similar to Juri’s in that he can just MA out of the way, and Ryu and Kazuya don’t respect his MA either. Jin is a hard to use character, arguably though, he is probably one of the best in terms of a strong counter game.
And why are you shooting fireballs at Juri anyway? That’s just stupid.
I’m not shooting fireballs at Juri, that is the point of the post. The post was to show what Jin CANNOT do against Juri, not what he can do.
Jin’s MA into swaying willow has 15 frames of start up if executed on the first frame, and 27 frames of recovery. You can’t use it to whiff punish, and you can’t just throw it out because if it whiffs, you would get punished much harder than the 100 damage swaying willow does. Same goes for if she jumps. If you are getting away with throwing out random swaying willows while playing footsies against Juri, then you must not be facing very good Juris.
Jin’s MA does not even come close to making a difference when playing footsies against those characters.
Probably a typo but Swaying willow has a 5 frame startup from MA.
I find using Swaying willow not nearly as effective against Juri as you make it seem Shinku, when are you exactly using it during her blockstring, because if she has a Fuhajin stored there is like no gap. Like Karaba said she can also cr.hp and jumpcancel it and make the MA swaying willow miss easily for you to eat a big combo.
Why would Juri possibly do a reversal cr.hp, only time you see it is when you actually jump or she already started her offense.
Like the idea of doing a swaying willow after a* low* blocked divekick.
Still don’t have a good answer against juri her trollish “crossup vortex”. She can alter it by doing a normal before the cr.hp to not crossup and crossup when she does the cr.hp from almost pointblank. When used pointblank you can walk under her and punish her on landing after she whiffed the air attack. Having a tough time to deal with this trollish play.
Okay, so someone is incorrect here. Either it’s as Karaba says, and I’m just not fighting good Juri’s, or Swaying Willow is amazing and you guys just haven’t used it to punish pokes like I have.
I’m going to go do some extensive research into this move and play as many good Juri’s as I can. I’ll record any matches of notable intent and we can all analyze and debate it more properly.
My Argument Stands that Swaying Willow is your best weapon against Juri.
Yes, it does have a 5 frame start up, but I counted the 10 frames that come from MA.
My best answer to her cross-up vortex so far is instant jump back hk. It is very hard for her to punish and will beat just about any button she hits when she jumps.
I appreciate your info on the match-up, but any move that has 15 frames of start up and 27 frames of recovery cannot be your best weapon in footsies. I’m starting to think that his best answer to her footsies is low mk. It loses a lot of the time, but it works a lot better than his other normals.
I’ve been looking at some of her frame data, and I think that Swaying Willow can be decent against her rush down in moderation. I think it is particularly effective if you manage to block an overhead. She is neutral on block, so you can immediately go into MA. If you see that she stays on the ground, do a swaying willow. If you see her jump again, do lk follow-up. If she jumps forward, your kick may miss, but at least you will get out of her pressure safely.
Very True Karaba. I do know that you don’t want Mindless Willows, because that leads to predictability on your part. And sometimes she doesn’t get pushed away enough for the move to be ‘Safe’ enough for you to use. I personally don’t try and Swaying Willow unless I’m sure it’ll cut through her lows and mediums. Otherwise I poke with Lp and Mk respectively.
All the same, I’m gonna do a lot of play testing to make sure MA to SW is incredibly useful.
Well his special dash beats my zoning and he got that annoying counter whenever I’m close to him or try to jump in also for some reason I have trouble doing MA mp to beat his overhead, I think I read somewhere that MA gets eaten by overheads and jumping attacks but I’m not sure.
MA>MP is bad against slower and multi hitting moves, like Steve’s overhead, it does not get beaten by jumps or overheads, you have to time it very good though if you want to make the moves whiff. Steve’s ducking moves have different ranges, might want to be watchfull of his farthest ducking atttack and from that range bait out with CADC backdash. Also from that range or preferrably even further away you can start zoning, however use lp or mp version and even charge some of them because he cannot go through 2 fireballs. By charging the lp,mp version you’ll mess up his timing and giving you a bigger chance of hitting him with them. On knockdown charge the fireballs to push him back
Neutral jumping or Powerstance cancelled in special step(lp/backdash) is probably best way to deal with his duck moves as you are not getting counterhit by trying to poke him out of his ducking moves with crouching attacks if Steve uses his followups from ducking. Neutral jumping might get you hit by the lp version which doesn’t allow him to combo, and the mp followup does allow him to combo after hitting you out of the air, but is alot slower and unsafe on block. You’ll only see this when they are sure they’ll hit. Powerstance has 1 frame startup and can be used on reaction to his ducking moves(if he like to use the followups all the time from ducking, if not safer to neutral jump. If they’ll throw out ducking moves randomly then you can throw out crouching attack just to “warn” them and buffer it in special step.
Although you did not mention it, but Steve players use f.mp/hp>lp alot to get in, it goes far, is fast and safe/plus on block, staple of his offense. Netral jumping on this is excellent. If you block it, generally you don’t want to press anything after this.
If Steve does alot of counters when you jump in do more empty jump throws. Steve doesn’t have the best anti-air and by empty jumping you make yourself even harder to hit. Steve has to stand tech because croucteching gives him his command normal which has priority, opening him up for lows after you’ve done the empty jump throw a few times. Overall throwing is really effective against Steve. On knockdown you can press buttons against him, unless you mistime them he cannot use a counter.
Try not to block low too often, he has no mixup game except relentless pressure, he can only throw you in very few situations, most buttons push him out of range. Overhead is slow and only allows him to combo after a crouching counterhit(which can be teched not granting him a combo anyway)
Overall i think neutral jumping is very strong against Steve, as is throwing and he’s weak against rushdown.
To be honest though i find Steve to still be somewhat of an unknown, he has his flaws(alot…) but he has unusual answers to common situations.
Good Steve players are scary tough
