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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/3709/xero15">xero15</a> said:</div>
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/81915/Trent%20Williams">Trent Williams</a> wrote: <a href="/discussion/comment/7993984#Comment_7993984" class=“QuoteLink”><span class=“ArrowLink”>»</span></a></div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Brightside6382 said:<br /><br>
Spidermans neutral game is fine without a beam. The problem is to put it bluntly you are playing it completely wrong. Of course when your just zipling down forward all the time and hitting S and H his neutral seems fairly limited. You need to understand he has tools outside of rushdown which you are completely ignoring. Good run away, mid/long range zoning abilities, fast dash speed, good ground normals, great anti-airs, etc. If you aren’t trying to incorporate all these aspects into your game you should stop using him because you’ll realize his rushdown abilities are meh.<br /><br>
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Also spiderman zones out wesker for free. It’s a ridiculously hard matchup for wesker.<br /><br>
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I have to disagree. Spidey’s neutral game is bad. You block web ball with your face it does so little damage and it doesn’t have much durability either. Good run away? Yes I’ll agree to that as that’s what I’ve adjusted my strategy to. I switch it up on the dime from run away to in your face. Mid/long range zoning abilities? No one is scared of web ball, or web throw for that matter. Good ground normals? With a 5 frame low jab, a terrible cr.m and extremely long recovery on cr.h? and he has good ground normals? with the st. M that whiffs? lets be real his ground normals are only better than his air normals but that’s not saying much. not to mention the fact that even though webzip is still slow for pressure as well. Bad. My plink dashes are up there though so yes his dash is really good. Also, maybe you have them and can show them to me but you and Xero need to provide some extension alternatives other than an assist hook. If spidey has better options y’all gotta spread the knowledge.</div>
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You’re looking at it all wrong. Web ball has enough durability to do what it’s intended to do and that’s distract and put something on the screen. You shouldn’t be putting yourself in positions to be fighting a fireball/beam war. :l: web ball is fast enough in recovery and slow enough in speed to actually follow by wave dashing or plinking. If they decide to dodge it then your options then become air throw or air to ground conversions. Against those who can maneuver around them easily you should have UWT buffered just in case.<br>
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Spideys ground normals actually are fairly decent. S:l: is four frames and stuffs stuff I between strings. C:m: is his next fastest at five frames and is a damn anti air. It’s only downfall, which isn’t much considering you should be dashing in after air attacks, is its short horizontal range which is really not that short at all. C:l: is 6 frames unfortunately but it’s still able to catch people low fairly often. As for the recovery for c:h: you should be prepared to cancel that when you throw it out there. If they block then zip cancel your next move. With the exception of punishing you should be able to tell if they are blocking well before c:h: comes out. S:m: is another good tool. It’s a decent anti air and the fact that it whiffs is actually a plus for Spidey in guard strings as its a ground pushblock bait mid string. If you throw it out there cancel it into spider sting/bite. If they don’t pushblock zip cancel the bite and continue your pressure or runaway.<br>
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As for “assist hooks” people should be looking for ways to land multiple web throws at the end where hell get the most out of them. This obviously is team dependent and in some cases doesn’t require spider sting at all. Instead of just looking for web throws though look at what your teams assists offer then see what’s better for what you’re doing. For example while sentinel can help Spidey get multiple web throws in the corner, unless you’re using Kara stings or another assist that let’s Spidey into the corner using him as an assist hook isn’t doing much considering when you have to cut your combo off just to get web throw to combo normally. In a case like that, that assist is better off setting up a reset situation that prevents them from teching all directions</div>
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Alright. Fair enough. My thing is that however Dormammu provides some of the best options for Spidey. Excellent DHC, excellent assist hook, excellent damage with the meteors and good mixups with teleports. If I’m going to cut Dormammu (since spidey and doom are best friends) who could I go to that has an as good dhc, setups, damage output, ability to keep away and mixup? Dormammu and Missiles is nice don’t get me wrong but you might as well not play Spider-man and run Magneto. Spider-man isn’t covering missiles at. Matter of fact, I think it was yall sho said I should switch doom to beam after getting blown up and y’all specifically said the neutral game was bad with the keep away. Web Ball distracts and yes that would be fine if this was a one on one but when someone is calling out triple arrow or plasma beam every second, doom missiles is gonna get blown up and so will Spidey. This is Marvel, you can’t run away forever. Who do yall think I should play instead of Dormammu? Or Maybe even Doom? And how would I extend with more web throws at the end of the combo where it really counts? Who is good for that?<br>
I never said his neutral was bad. I don’t think he needs a dedicated horizontal assist unless you are looking for balance. Not trying to dissect every one of your post but you’re looking at what I’m saying on a very minimal level. We are talking about Spider-Man so I’m just mentioning Spider-Man. Web ball one on one is awesome yes but of course beam wars would destroy that shit. Fortunately enough for Spidey Dorm you can buffer dark hole with your web ball. Web ball would absorb, let’s say EM Disruptor, and dark hole, just for the sake of an example, would negate plasma beam. Mixing this in with wave and plink dashes afterwards and staying aware solves that beam war problem. The dashes are really that good.
Next is the team build. If you want to keep playing Spidey then the strongest build you’ll get is Spidey Dorm Doom. The difference between that and Mags starting at point comes down to who you’d rather play. Magneto has a dedicated style of keep away that’s meant to keep you out. That’s why he can cover Doom better. If you call Doom in the neutral you need to be ready to cover with some sort of projectile followed up by your approach. With that said you obviously need to do this in those situations where a beam war won’t arise as Doom will get punished. Spidey requires a bit more unorthodox thinking but Spidey can cover Doom fine, the problem that most have an issue with is when they choose to call it. I’ve been there I get it then I fucked with it some more.
Lastly is this assist hook. Get rid of that. To assist hook you have to use spider sting/bite. That’s going to end your combo sooner and cut your damage down more. I can guarantee you will get more damage by completely omitting spider sting after a full combo ending it in web throw midscreen then raw tagging into Dormammu :h: purification xx chaotic flame. If you use spider sting then do said setup the purification will force tech and chaotic flame won’t combo unless the combo with spider sting is already short. Most of the setups shown don’t get you more web throws. What they can do is help set up for cross up stings to at least get the web throws to and from the corner but that would mean you have to learn the timing of the link which most don’t care to do. Even better than all that are the assist that allow Spidey to launch into TK :h: web swing for double TAC setups late in combos. Pick your assist for utility before combo ability as that’s what is going to determine what you can and can’t do with Spidey. For good measure though I’d suggest learning how to deal damage solo with Spidey them figuring out what you can do with your choice of assists from there.
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/3709/xero15">xero15</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>I never said his neutral was bad. I don’t think he needs a dedicated horizontal assist unless you are looking for balance. Not trying to dissect every one of your post but you’re looking at what I’m saying on a very minimal level. We are talking about Spider-Man so I’m just mentioning Spider-Man. Web ball one on one is awesome yes but of course beam wars would destroy that shit. Fortunately enough for Spidey Dorm you can buffer dark hole with your web ball. Web ball would absorb, let’s say EM Disruptor, and dark hole, just for the sake of an example, would negate plasma beam. Mixing this in with wave and plink dashes afterwards and staying aware solves that beam war problem. The dashes are really that good.<br>
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Next is the team build. If you want to keep playing Spidey then the strongest build you’ll get is Spidey Dorm Doom. The difference between that and Mags starting at point comes down to who you’d rather play. Magneto has a dedicated style of keep away that’s meant to keep you out. That’s why he can cover Doom better. If you call Doom in the neutral you need to be ready to cover with some sort of projectile followed up by your approach. With that said you obviously need to do this in those situations where a beam war won’t arise as Doom will get punished. Spidey requires a bit more unorthodox thinking but Spidey can cover Doom fine, the problem that most have an issue with is when they choose to call it. I’ve been there I get it then I fucked with it some more.<br>
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Lastly is this assist hook. Get rid of that. To assist hook you have to use spider sting/bite. That’s going to end your combo sooner and cut your damage down more. I can guarantee you will get more damage by completely omitting spider sting after a full combo ending it in web throw midscreen then raw tagging into Dormammu :h: purification xx chaotic flame. If you use spider sting then do said setup the purification will force tech and chaotic flame won’t combo unless the combo with spider sting is already short. Most of the setups shown don’t get you more web throws. What they can do is help set up for cross up stings to at least get the web throws to and from the corner but that would mean you have to learn the timing of the link which most don’t care to do. Even better than all that are the assist that allow Spidey to launch into TK :h: web swing for double TAC setups late in combos. Pick your assist for utility before combo ability as that’s what is going to determine what you can and can’t do with Spidey. For good measure though I’d suggest learning how to deal damage solo with Spidey them figuring out what you can do with your choice of assists from there.</div>
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Alright cool man thanks. I’m gonna keep hitting the lab then. Just a few questions though: 1. You seem to be referring to web throw combos. I think that web swing combos are way more consistent as you can start them off from c.H and you don’t have to worry about the M whiffing but maybe you have some advice to deal with that. 2. What is this Tiger Knee Web Swing double TAC? 3. What combo are you referring to that omits spider sting completely? I’ll be hitting the lab to try and find out but let a brotha know. Thanks man. My apologies if I sounded a bit rude on the last post. I was getting frustrated. <br>
No I’m not referring to web throw combos. That’s a topic altogether and I’m not sure how I want to word that one yet. I run Spidey Dorm Doom-b so after any of my combos ending with web throws I can throw back midscreen and Dorm can combo off it. However if I were to do any of those combos, keep in mind the longer ones, then add in spider sting/bite into web throw purification would force a tech. That’s what I meant by finding better extensions. As for the TK web swing the easiest reference I could give you is to watch my resets and other stuff video. I used missiles but it’s possible with other assist as well.
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/81915/Trent%20Williams">Trent Williams</a> said:</div>
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/15794/Brightside6382">Brightside6382</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Spidermans neutral game is fine without a beam. The problem is to put it bluntly you are playing it completely wrong. Of course when your just zipling down forward all the time and hitting S and H his neutral seems fairly limited. You need to understand he has tools outside of rushdown which you are completely ignoring. Good run away, mid/long range zoning abilities, fast dash speed, good ground normals, great anti-airs, etc. If you aren’t trying to incorporate all these aspects into your game you should stop using him because you’ll realize his rushdown abilities are meh.<br>
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Also spiderman zones out wesker for free. It’s a ridiculously hard matchup for wesker.</div>
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I have to disagree. Spidey’s neutral game is bad. You block web ball with your face it does so little damage and it doesn’t have much durability either. Good run away? Yes I’ll agree to that as that’s what I’ve adjusted my strategy to. I switch it up on the dime from run away to in your face. Mid/long range zoning abilities? No one is scared of web ball, or web throw for that matter. Good ground normals? With a 5 frame low jab, a terrible cr.m and extremely long recovery on cr.h? and he has good ground normals? with the st. M that whiffs? lets be real his ground normals are only better than his air normals but that’s not saying much. not to mention the fact that even though webzip is still slow for pressure as well. Bad. My plink dashes are up there though so yes his dash is really good. Also, maybe you have them and can show them to me but you and Xero need to provide some extension alternatives other than an assist hook. If spidey has better options y’all gotta spread the knowledge.<br></div>
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If someone is running into your web balls and you aren’t doing anything to convert/capitalize it doesn’t mean web balls aren’t good it means you seriously need to learn how to react better or well just do something other then “waaa only 10k dmg?”<br></p><p>2. If no one is scared of web balls or web throws then you aren’t using them correctly. Are you seriously going to argue that full screen converts into 100% combo’s off random web throws isn’t good? How are you going to invalidate something when you clearly have no idea how to use it?</p><p>3. If you stand and do a jab a different normal comes out. Also its not hard to confirm with 2 jabs and skip the medium all together. Last but not least stop whiffing normals. I guess under that logic Vergil s.H is pretty ass right? What’s the recovery on whiff on that thing? like 100 frames?</p><p>4. What is an assist hook? Did you just make up lingo or something?</p>
<font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>My rank matches.combos still hella basic cause online is ass. imma try and upload all my rank matches.</span></font><br><br><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow24tIuh0F4</span></font><br>
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/81915/Trent%20Williams">Trent Williams</a> said:</div>
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/15794/Brightside6382">Brightside6382</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Spidermans neutral game is fine without a beam. The problem is to put it bluntly you are playing it completely wrong. Of course when your just zipling down forward all the time and hitting S and H his neutral seems fairly limited. You need to understand he has tools outside of rushdown which you are completely ignoring. Good run away, mid/long range zoning abilities, fast dash speed, good ground normals, great anti-airs, etc. If you aren’t trying to incorporate all these aspects into your game you should stop using him because you’ll realize his rushdown abilities are meh.<br>
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Also spiderman zones out wesker for free. It’s a ridiculously hard matchup for wesker.</div>
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I have to disagree. Spidey’s neutral game is bad. You block web ball with your face it does so little damage and it doesn’t have much durability either. Good run away? Yes I’ll agree to that as that’s what I’ve adjusted my strategy to. I switch it up on the dime from run away to in your face. Mid/long range zoning abilities? No one is scared of web ball, or web throw for that matter. Good ground normals? With a 5 frame low jab, a terrible cr.m and extremely long recovery on cr.h? and he has good ground normals? with the st. M that whiffs? lets be real his ground normals are only better than his air normals but that’s not saying much. not to mention the fact that even though webzip is still slow for pressure as well. Bad. My plink dashes are up there though so yes his dash is really good. Also, maybe you have them and can show them to me but you and Xero need to provide some extension alternatives other than an assist hook. If spidey has better options y’all gotta spread the knowledge.<br></div>
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If someone is running into your web balls and you aren’t doing anything to convert/capitalize it doesn’t mean web balls aren’t good it means you seriously need to learn how to react better or well just do something other then “waaa only 10k dmg?”<br></p><p>2. If no one is scared of web balls or web throws then you aren’t using them correctly. Are you seriously going to argue that full screen converts into 100% combo’s off random web throws isn’t good? How are you going to invalidate something when you clearly have no idea how to use it?</p><p>3. If you stand and do a jab a different normal comes out. Also its not hard to confirm with 2 jabs and skip the medium all together. Last but not least stop whiffing normals. I guess under that logic Vergil s.H is pretty ass right? What’s the recovery on whiff on that thing? like 100 frames?</p><p>4. What is an assist hook? Did you just make up lingo or something?</p></div>
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Easy partner. <br>1. Web balls are primarily just for spacing. You can convert off them too. I usually go for resets as the damage scales hard. I’ll still block them with my face though :p<br>2. Web throw 100 percent combos are wonderful yes, but once again we bloooooooock those. <br>3. A Vergil comparison? Cmon man, you’re being facetious and that’s nowhere near a fair comparison but I get your point. <br>4. Assist hook is when you double spidersting/bite for hard knock down then OTG into assist into web throw into hyper. Shout outs to KenAdamsNSA.<br>
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/3709/xero15">xero15</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Random thought… I hate playing online… That is all.</div>
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As soon as I played a match locally, I haven’t touched the online mode. It’s horrendous. <br>
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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/3709/xero15">xero15</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Random thought… I hate playing online… That is all.</div>
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Do you know how hard it is to KARA SPIDER STING ONLINE!? i dont mind playing online i just take a serious, you can learn a lot from those whack bags they play online.<br>
I had new Internet installed so I was wanting to test stuff. After I tested streaming I tried a couple of matches… Yeah fuck that shit. Couldn’t move, overheads I couldn’t react to, too many dropped combos. I had been away from it so long playing offline that I forgot how bad it was. Too much scrub shit SMH
<font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>http://www.twitch.tv/eflsafehouse/b/372450399<br>First matches I am in start around 00:07:00 I kind of play badly there but I am all warmed up and back around 00:36:22 for more games. And back again at 1:22:00 as well. I use a team I don’t normally use with Frank West in it for a few matches as well. Hope you guys like them. Also fullscreen footdive confirm from log trap assist is hilarious.</span></font><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div>
Abusing that Magneto/UWT option (select?). Awesome, loved it lol.
If I could say one thing, imo, is that you were playing the Spidey vs Zero match up wrong. Should try to restrict using the air so much against Zero because of lightning. Zero takes priority in the air compared to Spidey.
Dunno if this is the right place to post this, but I was wondering exactly what Spidey is doing to pull this off and whether or not this is really a practical or needed technique. A comment on the video says that h web swing was used, but I didnt really see it at all when he did it the first couple of times.
:h: web swing TAC air dash TAC. Yes it’s a needed technique. The point of it is to add extra guess to your mind games. You can only break one of them. If the opponent guess wrong on the first attempt they can’t even attempt to break out of the second one due to how the game treats the break attempts. Likewise the opponent also has to think whether you are going to go for the single or double TAC meaning they have to guess which direction to break on top of when they should try to do it.
where can i watch some matches with spider-man? i know i can be getting more damage if i use them karas, i was just wondering if you guys have it down 100% to do it in match. i hate droping combos so i dont do them but i feel like i hit a wall playing spider-man and i just wanna up my game with him. thanks
I only intended for kara stings to be used for the times Spidey had no assist backing him or no assist that would help him with extenders. I’m assuming you’re running Spidey/Iron Man. Personally I’d run Repulsor Blast but I know a lot of people like using Unibeam. In the event you’re running a team that doesn’t freely lend to helping Spidey extend his combos I’d suggest doing your combos ending in kara stings then doing another sting then calling your assist while you OTG to try and get web throws out.