Ok another question.
Which frames of Kens Strong and Fierce DP are the ones that knock down or what is the circumstances for them to knock down.
I need to find this out to see how close to get to Ken on my sakos.
If its within the first half then I’ll get closer and if its on the second half then I’ll be farther back.
Strong: 7th frame
Fierce: 5th frame
For both DPs, the first knockdown frame is the first one where he is in the rising animation.
You know what I don’t understand? Why fucking Capcom hasn’t re-used the ST engine in modern-day Street Fighter. Shit is nearly flawless, there’s a reason its been played since '94. Oh, right: the casuals. sigh
Im still not exactly sure here how it works =(
sorry
There is only one knock down frame ? the first rising one being the fifth and seventh respectivly ? Or is there a few knock down frames ?
Oh sorry, i think i didnt explained it well.
While his fists are “lowered”, thats the part where the move does more damage. But with strong and fierce it will not give you a knockdown during these frames so thats why it can combo into more hits.
During the period where he is in the rising animation, it will always knockdown, no matter which frame it hits and no matter which button you used ( jab strong or fierce).
With strong, the rising part astarts at the 7th frame, with fierce its in the 5th. So no, its not only one frame that can knockdown. Strong DP has 22 frames that knockdown and Fierce has 26.
Explaining in another way:
Strong: 2 frames of startup, 4 active that dont knockdown, 22 active frames that knockdown, 27 frames of recovery
Fierce: No startup, 2 active frames that do very low dmg and dont knockdown, 2 active frames that do more damage but dont knockdown, 26 frames that do less damage than the second hit but always knockdown, 34 frames of recovery
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Ken_(ST)#Special_Moves
closer it is ! Thanks !
Supposedly the code that went into making ST is so messy, that even modern programmers aren’t sure how the game even works, lol. It’s all myth though. I don’t see why Capcom can’t just replicate the ST engine into a modern game. But of course, casual players won’t like it, because there are no easy-mode options to make you feel like a pro in ST.
Capcom has made such a huge blunder when it comes to handling the SF2 property. Right from day one, there were glitches in the game (combos were unintentional) but it ended up making the game a lot more fun.
And then there were new versions released, at least once a year, which killed a lot of SF2’s hype. People just felt like they were being milked and got turned off waiting for SF3 (which turned out to be a huge disappointment for me imo).
I mean here you have a fighting game which revolutionized the genre and revitalized an entire industry for almost a decade. You would think that Capcom would be smart and make the SF2 series their “legacy” fighting game. You would think that they would port ST for every new console and every five years or so add new characters or attacks or something.
Cuz it’s not just a good fighting game, it’s one hell of a fucking good fighting game (especially compared to all the other FGs out there that don’t have the staying power of ST). Wake up Capcom.
All true, but I think even if they re-released an arcade perfect port, today’s players won’t flock to it as they did back in the 90s. Newer players are much more into the marvel style of play nowadays, flashy graphics and animations, multiple hit knockdowns, and everyone needs a high-low mix-up. Whenever a new player comes to play me in ST at the arcades, they quickly lose and leave, complaining about how “stupid” and “boring” the game is, it’s sad.
When you’re primarily playing coin-op, then the version changes hit the arcade operators much more than the players.
I think the reason is similar to newbies joining ggpo for the first time. They get killed by the veterans squadding on ggpo.
They get no chance to experience the game by themselves.
All the tick throw, frame trap, jump in got AA’ed, fb zoned to death, etc are just too much for them (“stupid” and “boring” - playsforfun?).
Graphics aside, if sf2 is released today alongside sfxtk, sc5, kof13 and everyone is starting from ground zero, I don’t think there will be issues for noobs to get into it.
On the note of the new fighting games, it seems like most fgcs now are like guitar heros, testing your memorization of the timing to do a 10 hit combos. Naturally those who are good at those type of games or are good at musical instruments (desk?) will have little problem with it.
But for regular gamers, you gotta really grind your combos in training mode to compete.
Before this thing becomes the “Why isn’t ST on XBL or PSN” thread, does anyone know if there is a “throw priority list,” I would like to know who is the cheapest A.K.A. I’m tired of being thrown to death by Claw and Boxer
i always felt when i played on HDR that there should be some kind of way to seperate beginners, intermediates and pros. it is too discouraging to new players when they get F’ed up and they feel as though the other player is “cheating” so to speak. for instance, being accused of fireball spam, calling tick throws cheap, etc. even though their thinking is BS, if you want new players to stick around, you gotta let them see whats fun about the game by leveling up and learning these tactics with other new players. any game where you die too easily sucks. especially at the rate you can lose in ST. they can venture in to the pro rooms to see how they fare and then go back to the drawing board. as they get better, start hitting up the intermediate rooms.
I guess your getting thrown to death by Claw and Boxer has little to do with their range but rather they caught you off guard. You just need to learn the setup and smell it coming miles away. You cannot “react” to it if you are not prepared.
Move How many moves it beats/loses to
----------------------- --------------------------------
feilong -22
thawk -20
balrog/hp-throw -18
sagat -16
cammy -14
deejay -11
guile -11
ryu -6
zangief/super -6
ken -6
vega -2
zangief/lk suplex 0
chunli 2
mbison 6
zangief/throw | mk suplex 6
balrog/mp-throw 6
dhalsim 10
blanka 12
ehonda 14
zangief/hk suplex 16
ehonda/oicho 18
thawk/360 | super 20
zangief/spd 22
I agree, the game has been out for so long, that everyone is either a trained killer, or a newbie who’s trying the game for the first time. It’s largely why I try to support the newer and mid-level players, and try to help develop some new talent for the game, as opposed to just the old veterans holding guard for ST.
But I do simple zoning patterns with O.Guile, and I’ve literally had them say that he’s “broken” and top tier in that game. I understand that being zoned is frustrating, but their overall attitude is different as well. They don’t want to think about how to come up with a counter strategy, or try new tactics to get around it, they just complain about it and leave.
As for new fighting games, each new one seems to be adding more and more elements of Marvel into it, and deviating further and further away from core SF gameplay. Just as a general statement.
One other reason folks would leave after a few games at the arcade is that nobody nowadays wants to pay money to lose at Street Fighter. That’s why our tourney fees are so low compared those of most other tournaments.
On GGPO, a feature that would be interesting to have would be a skill tag similar to but more detailed than XBL’s gamer zone system. I’ve mentioned this a few years ago but it would be helpful if you get to label your own skill level and fighting preference. That way, new players can tell from a glance who they will have good matches with. And players like me will know what each opponent is expecting, where half of the players who complain nowadays are annoyed with no holds barred tactics (cheap!) and the other half are offended when taken lightly (belittling!). There will likely be a few trolls but not enough to offset the usefulness and relative simplicity of this skill tag system.
As for newer games, I don’t think game mechanics, so long as they resemble the basics established by Street Figther II, matter much. The Street Fighter EX series originated many of the concepts used nowadays in SF4 and SFXT but received no love. I’ve heard little concern over SFXT losing SF4’s focus attacks and ultras, and little enthusiasm over the new gem system, pandora mode, quick combos, and assist gems.
I think quantity, graphics, marketing, and sense of freshness are much more important. Create a new SF2 with the most characters ever, include a cinematic-laden story mode, add some random minigames, make the graphics look amazing, let everyone know about it, and the game will be another sales blockbuster. That’s basically Mortal Kombat’s approach to selling games and I think it generates more loyal, positive fans.
Lol just saw the first few posts about “backward attacks”. Now I play boxer I do this all the time. Input the motion as you normally do, and when you press the button controls which direction your attack comes out. Take the example of Ken crossing up Ryu after a knockdown. As Ryu gets up you do the motion, and after the motion you have a number of frames in which you can press the attack button (think it varies 8-16 or something). If you press the button early, you will get the dragon punch go one way. Now if you still input the motion at the same point but wait a little longer for Ken to change sides before you press the button, your DP will go the other way.
I do this with Boxer’s super to try and stop crossup tatsus or crossups in general. Even if it just gets me out of that position, I dont mind burning meter for it since its easy to build back up. It’s just not worth being in that situation against a top Ryu with crossups, tap throws, safe jumps, feints into low forward xx dp etc.
It annoys me when people say “nice autocorrect super” and stuff. It’s not auto correct, it’s to do with when you press the button.
Have been on both the giving and receiving end of this. I’d be interested in knowing whether it’s guaranteed to always come out or not, depending on the crossup hurricane timing – my hunch is that it’s not guaranteed at all, just like Ryu’s “auto-correct” DP in response to crossups doesn’t seem to be fail safe.
I’ve noticed some JP Ryu’s will actually cross Boxer up with j.RH rather than the hurricane in anticipation of the autocorrect super.
Yeah, there are guaranteed motions if timed correctly. Auto-correct is indeed a misnomer. Now, this isn’t trivial because it depends on a case-by-case scenario of position and timing. Against strong boxers, I rarely wall dive on my own wall when they have meter because there’s guaranteed super damage at certain ranges and difficult aerial maneuvering required at other ranges. The best anti-crossup motions can handle all cases (crossup and non-crossup) but then that’s a whole mindgame in itself.
If you know boxer will super, then you can lure him to throw it away with safe crossups or prevent him from using it with anti-charge techniques. Folks know I have a good chance of performing a reversal anti-crossup flipkick so they take care to perform safe crossups on wakeup instead and can freely punish the reversal afterward. But then there are opportunities to perform motions that are specifically designed to beat or avoid safe crossups as well. And that gives rise to option selects with crazy inputs that easily dwarf most of the traditional advanced techniques mentioned here.
I noticed the crossup correct timing with DeeJay’s upkicks, I was able to beat out crossup tatsu consistently. Does this work against juice kicks or am I forced to block against them?
Also, I’ve been playing this game on and off for a couple of years, and I never knew until recently that you can only combo off of jump-ins if they’re timed to hit your opponent around the chest area of their hitbox! I was always wondering why it was impossible for me to land anything even after hitting a jump-in. Now I finally have a way to start practicing DeeJay’s combos off of crossups. Thanks to Fudd for the info.