I know many would have forgotten about this but when you are in the HDR main menu, you can go to options and “How to Play”. There’s some stuff there you probably already know, but there might be a few thing you may not have been aware of. FYI. 
Wow, I almost feel disrespected by that post, lmao.
Nah, there really is some great stuff in there though that anyone playing SF should know if they don’t happen to. Thanks.
Didn’t want to start a new thread, plus some may have suggestions for me.
Has Zangief always been able to SPD cats from so far away? I mean, I get walked up on and grabbed from distances that seem out of sweeps range. I’m not sticking any limbs out or anything, and I just get grabbed from literaly that far away. I’m not exaggerating lol, for real. Also I noticed you can get grabbed/SPD after a blocked jab shoryuken. So i’m guessing the obvious best way to fight Gief would be just to stay as far away as possible and throw fireballs to bait jumps,green hand, and lariats eh? Cause it seems if that fool gets near you it’s a wrap.
And wow on M.Bison, his jump is like a dam shoryuken spring! I don’t mean his head stomp thing, i’m talking his regular jump. Dam! I was jumping in on a knocked down Bison and if I didn’t do it deep enough, dude was just jumping out of the way o_O Even trying to hit that dude with a fireball while he’s down, it seems if you don’t get it to hit real deep before he gets up he can just jump it.
Is Dee Jay just impossible to neck kick or jump into after a knock down? Is it even worth trying? I don’t think i’ve ever succesfully did one to him. He always seems to spring with his up kick thing every time no matter how deep I seem to go.
Also what is a good jump in move against Dahlsim? Is there one? He seems to hit me with sliding short against anything I try. Is that just simply his lil anti air thing if timed right and he’s un hittable?
Sorry for the barrage of questions lol. Normally I don’t like asking for help but, I made a lil exception for this Dee Jay n Dahlsim 
Shit, dude, lots of questions! Let go one by one, but know that I am just a casual player! Dudes like DGV, Royal Flush and stuff will know better.
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In SF2, the SPD range is the same one of the cr.roundhouse against him while he is standing. Yes, it has always been that way. Thus, if you can sweep him, he can SPD you. Ryu’s best reversal against Zangief in ST and STHD is the short tatsu: it is not that easily punishable and recovers fast. Also note that reversal SRK from a distance can get SPDed/RBGed anyway due to having throwable frames. Throwing hadoukens should not get him to jump as he can just lariat through them. Try to fake him, then walk up or rush punch if from a distance and sweep. His standing forward beats all your pokes but standing punches, so try to be just outside that distance and not block so as to be able to walk and punish lariats. Blocking, even if it does not touch you, gets you pinned down for a few moments and prevents you from punishing things. When he gets close, you will want to still try and stay outside the SPD range, then try either 1) walk up sweep, 2) bait sweep, 3) walk up cr.forward xx (preferably red) hadouken, 4) red hadouken between pokes or 5) watch out for jump-ins so as to punish with a SRK. Zangief has answers to all of those, so mix them up and keep an eye for predictable behavior so you can favor one option after the other .
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Dictator has few jump frames and a large arc. He can be really hard to fight in the air with his high priority kicks and the anti-air strong punch. It is important to learn the distance and timing to cross him up deeply after knockdowns.
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Dee Jay is hard to cross up due to being “thin.” A few combos do not work on him due to the same reason. Mixing the safe jump with fast forward cross-up tatsu is good, or just have a meaty projectile for him to have fun when waking up. You will need to use hadoukens wisely here and have the SRK and other anti-airs ready.
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If you blatantly jump, odds are he will beat it cleanly no matter what you do. Between “wonderful lows”, slides, jump back fierce, back jab or strong, he can stuff or avoid things, so avoid jumping but on knckdowns. Ryu’s best priority jump move is fierce punch, but it still loses to Dhalsim’s defensive anti-air arsenal. It can sometimes stuff kicks when he is really far, tough.
Thanks Oldschool_BR, all that info was great.
And the Gief stuff also. Now that you mention about the block animation happening even though you don’t get hit, i’ve noticed/realized people have been using that on me to help close the gap by throwing back to back pokes to keep me stationary. Good stuff to know. I’m glad Gief has always been able to grab from that far, sometimes like I said he’s dang near or just out of sweep range and I still get caught. I was shocked when that happened lol. But given he has no projectiles and can’t really launch himself, it only seems fair. But dam lol.
For those others it’s good to know those things so I can now mark off off stuff to not try (as much).
When you say “fast foward tatsu” do you mean the tatsu where Ryu goes up and back down quickly? Or just use the foward kick for the cross up tatsu instead of short and roundhouse.
The fast forward tatsu is the one most hated Ryu technique for me, when I face my (friendly) rival pega_eu on GGPO. It consists of doing a roundhouse air tatsu just before the apex of the jump. Ryu’s horizontal speed will significantly increase but he will not go upwards: it will still hit people on the ground. It is horrible in two particular situations:[LIST]
[]You somehow get the enemy to jump from the range you would normally sweep him as he lands. The moment he jumps, you have decided to use the sweep but when he should be descending, the fast forward tatsu will keep him in the air just enough time for the sweep to miss, or even get him right behind you, while you are still recovering from the sweep.
[]You have been knocked down. He does what seems to be a perfect safe jump, and you know better to just block it to avoid major trouble. He then does the fast forward air tatsu and hits you from behind for another (not quite) happy knockdown.
[/LIST]This is retarded, the only situation this clearly rewards skill and gives the player a fair result is when a blue Ryu uses the technique.
^^ have any vids? I think i get it, but i need illustration.
I watched a ton of top player videos, and it is hard to find it being used frequently because they are too good with zoning and only try it as a mix-up. Ken players actually seem to use it more. Anyway, here are two examples:[LIST]
[]Daigo goes for the deep, high damaging shoryuken, but [media=youtube]5nmGxfvhyDw&#t="[/media] and hits Daigo from behind.
[][media=youtube]MbXWmqSCh2M&#t0m48s"[/media], but he delays it and hits Daigo anyway.
[/LIST]
Thanks to Geo for compiling the matches at SF Dojo.
You’re welcome! Man, I really had to work hard to do it. Just kidding, that project is all done by zaspacer. (You might remember me from posting the scans of the Yoga Book Hyper.)
Fuck! OK, sorry, zaspacer!
LMAO
That type of delayed Air Tatsu is also known as the Crossup Tatsu, but another version known as the Diagonal Tatsu can also stuff Shoryukens from behind. It all depends at which point in the jump arc the Tatsu is executed. Here is a writeup of all the different Air Tatsus that I did for the HDR Ryu Wiki:
AIR TATSU MAKI SENPUU KYAKU (also known as Air Tatsu, Air HK)
Jump, QCB Kick
Ryu’s Air Tatsu has a smaller hitbox than Ken’s Air Tatsu, but it can knock down grounded opponents. Air Tatsus are not overheads, they can be blocked while crouching or standing. All Air Tatsus can be performed during diagonal and neutral jumps. There are many different variations of Air Tatsus depending on when in the jump arc that the Tatsu is executed. The strength of Kick used can also affect the duration in the air, due to stronger Kicks causing more spins. But as a rough guide, there are about 5 versions of the Air Tatsu, with different trajectories and uses:
Juice Air Tatsu (also known as Juice Kick, TK Tatsu, Top Spin Tatsu, Rainbow Tatsu)
This Air Tatsu is executed as soon as Ryu jumps, sometimes even during the pre-jump frames. The Juice Tatsu has [media=youtube]G2WRSaQYwPE&#t=0m43s"]the fastest take-off and landing and travels in a rainbow arc. It’s horizontal range is almost twice that of a normal jump-in and it can also be [. Most players simply jump and input QCB Kick as quickly as possible, but some players input the QCB motion first, then jump and then input Kick after (TK motion). Either way, the motions must be done very, very quickly to execute this Air Tatsu, and it’s one of the most difficult maneuvers to perform in the game.
High Air Tatsu
It is executed as Ryu is rising into the air but before he reaches the peak of his jump arc. This Air Tatsu has the highest and farthest range of all the Air Tatsus, almost full screen distance. But it is slow and easily punishable as it has a long air recovery time. Mainly used to escape the corner, or to [media=youtube]GgGTVO0uByY&#t=5m46s"[/media] or to beat certain Wall Dives or other aerial attacks.
Diagonal Air Tatsu
It is executed at the peak of the jump arc. It descends in a roughly straight, diagonal line and is good for [media=youtube]5nmGxfvhyDw&#t=5m37s"]crossing up the opponent](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY3Yx9mT6Ks&#t=3m27s"[/media) or hitting other anti-air attacks from the back such as Vega’s Flipkick or Dee Jay’s Upkicks, or even Shoryukens. It has pretty good horizontal range, over half screen distance, and can even [ (Ken’s Tatsu is better for this than Ryu). The neutral jump version does not descend in a diagonal line, but is still very useful to alter Ryu’s jump trajectory to avoid projectiles or to throw off the opponent’s timing.
Cross-up Air Tatsu (also known as the Ambiguous Air Tatsu)
It is executed slightly after the peak of the jump and as Ryu has begun to descend. It has almost the same horizontal range as a jump-in but descends slightly farther. It is this tiny change of trajectory that makes this Air Tatsu the most deadly to cross-up with. After knocking down the opponent, it is best performed from just outside cross-up range (about max cr Short range). As Ryu jumps, it seems that he will not be able to cross-up with a j Roundhouse. But executing this Air Tatsu will alter Ryu’s jump trajectory, and he will cross-up the opponent and strike from behind. If blocked, against most opponents and in most situations (not all), it will give enough frame advantage to [media=youtube]wdJU5UC8Nmk&#t=3m22s"]follow up with a sweep combo](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDoMA6FYLJE&#t=0m16s"[/media), or a throw or a Shoryuken. This Air Tatsu is very deadly, and is very effective in getting repeated knockdowns, but the range and timing can be a little tricky to perform. The best example of this was performed by [URL=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlpKqkKd2dM”]**Daigo’s Ryu vs Afrolegend’s Balrog[/B[/media]
Late Air Tatsu
It is executed at the last moment before Ryu reaches the ground. This is the only Air Tatsu that does not alter Ryu’s jump trajectory significantly. It can be used to knock down an unguarded opponent such as after jumping over a fireball, or to [media=youtube]wdJU5UC8Nmk&#t=5m40s"[/media]. It can also hit crouching opponents sometimes. To use it as a crossup, execute it in the opposite direction after crossing up the opponent (QCF Kick).
I like to use the late tatsu as a tick throw setup.
The one I have described seems more like what you have classified as diagonal tatsu. However, I am pretty sure only Ken may hit crouching opponents with it. Those against Afrolegends seem more related to distance and timing to make them ambiguous, not on a setup that seems blatantly clear which way to block to the point you take if for granted, but the shoto gets propelled to the other side and hits from behind.
On a similar note, there is a bastard way of jumping in on shotos with Dee Jay, when they are knocked down, that you really have no clue which way to block. I do not know the timing, but it seems like what could be a safe jump, with a timing and distance such that it can cross you up just as you wake up, and if he did it a frame later, it would not.
Yeah, Diagonal Tatsu can beat Shoryukens from behind, same as Crossup Tatsu. Also, you’re right that Ken’s Diagonal Tatsu can hit crouching opponents more frequently than Ryu. But if used as a crossup, most people will still be blocking b and then when the Diagonal Tatsu descends on the other side, they walk forward and get hit by it without realizing that it crossed up. LOL It’s a nice little shenanigan, esp for Ryu.
Speaking of cross-up tatsu, at the very worst, it will trade with Sagat’s reversal DP and at best (which is a good proportion of the time) hit him clean.
For some reason, I think that a cross-up tatsu will even make his Super whiff and go in the opposite direction from which you land (i.e. if you cross him up and land on the 2P side, he’ll whiff and move towards the 1P side).
I’ve only used this with Ken’s tatus, but it should work similarly. I would test the bit about Sagat, but I don’t have my Xbox with me in NYC so this is going off from memory. It’s really useful when you get close to Sagat and you want to go for something sneaky (again, if memory serves correctly and it actually does work and I’m not making it up).
Dam, sparked some awesome info. Thanks to all who posted and shared what they knew. I’ll have to peep out them SF Dojo vids one day. Should be some real good stuff in there. I’ll make sure to be using the Blue Ryu when attempting the fast foward tatsu lol
So that quick one is called a “Juice Tatsu” etc. eh? Coo, I love doin that one. Been trying to get a hang of it these last few days. I usually end up just doing a jump kick or a ground tatsu and I get hella punished for it hahah. Gotta keep tryin though. Love it when you end up behind them.
Sometimes it seems you don’t have to do it super fast, just nice and controlled to get it to come out. I’ll have to take that into the training room sometime. That’s something I want to get good at and be able to do on demand. As with the rest of the different tatsu’s. But i’m thirsty and I want the Juice!
Added some vids to the Air Tatsu post. Enjoy! = J
Good stuff oldschool and blitzfu!
Anybody who seriously wants to level up their game with Ryu or Ken I definitely recommend masterin the juice kick. Bein able to do it on command puts you in so many good positions especially against other projectile characters. I just recently learned how to do it pretty consistent (about 4 outta 5 attempts) and it just adds so much to your game. Its mad hard to master but definitely worth it if you do…
You are welcome, dude! But it is not really my merit, I simply noticed it from others.
I have found a few examples of ShootingD using it. He only uses it against a few characters on knockdown.
vs Mayakon: [media=youtube]mZA76Go3O3Y&#t=0m53s"]0:53, [.
Extra: cross-up tatsu from Shiro [media=youtube]5ptfN557Vec&#t=2m26s"]against D’s Guile](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZA76Go3O3Y&#t=1m16s"[/media) and [URL=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ptfN557Vec&#t=3m24s”[/media].
Extra2: [media=youtube]5ptfN557Vec&#t=3m58s"[/media].
Extra3: I call this the “Tencho bait.” Ryu throws a few fierce or strong projectiles, then steps back and throws a slow one for the jumpers to land on it. Starts at [media=youtube]5ptfN557Vec&#t=4m57s"[/media] on the same video. Chris Doyle did this to me like 5 or 6 times on GGPO one day. Bastard… 
My pleasure bro. Yeah, that Juice Tatsu is definitely ill. moocus and DGV are friggin masters with it. I wish I could Juice whenever I want… LOL