missiles or beam? o_o
I tried out this team for the first time last night and yes, it is ridiculous. Out of curiosity, why do you like Doom over Dante for the team? I find Jam Session more useful than Hidden Missiles for Zero’s neutral.
The main reason I like Doom over Dante is due to Doom providing two great assists for Zero. Zero/Dante/Strider does nothing to help Zero on the horizontal plane and if the matchup calls for it. Meanwhile with Doom you can decide how you want to approach any matchup since Plasma Beam and Hidden Missiles do great things for Zero. Surprisingly I’ve heard that rocks are even legit for Zero - though I haven’t tested this myself.
The other reason? I just don’t play Dante. 
I’ve experimented with a fair number of Zero teams, and I think I’ve settled on one that works best for me. I haven’t seen it discussed much, and I wanted some feedback.
Zero/Doom (missiles)/Vergil - My favorite assist for Zero is Hidden Missiles. It controls tons of space, allows multiple types of combo extensions, good DHC/THC synergy, and zones lots of teams for free. Doom makes up for Zero’s bad health, builds meter for Vergil, and has no really bad match-ups with Rapid Slash as an assist. Dark Vergil is a strong anchor, and he usually has tons of meter and XF3. Also, I can use him to counterpick people that try to put Hawkeye/Task (sometimes) on point against Zero.
I haven’t heard it talked about much here, and I was wondering what people see as potential problems for the team.
Also, how do people reliably confirm off Jam Session and Vajra (hard knockdown)? I haven’t found a really consistent way to do it yet.
That team sounds gross for ZERO but I really don’t like that order. I feel that Vergil benefits more from having a Doom assist rather than the other way around; Rapid Slash might provide extra cover for Doom but I don’t think it’s good enough to help Doom get in (unless someone has any new gross synergy tech between the two that I don’t know about). Also, I think Vergil anchor’s overrated, especially since he relies on meter way too much with the summoned swords/dt set ups.
On another note, I started playing Team Flocker (Zero/Vergil/Hawkeye) and that team was a huge upgrade from my original team (Zero/Vergil/Doom). Hawkeye is a MUCH better anchor than Doom and has to work less to get damage in… I also like the Greyhound/quick arrow assist for 50/50’s a lot better than Plasma Beam :x
Must’ve missed this. Know how to use them both and decide which to use based on the matchup.
hey guys. my current team is Zero/wolv/doom but wolv doesnt provide enough on the team to make him worth it (unless i’m mis-using his assists?) i was considering storm, but i also saw something about chun’s leg assist to extend zero stuff. can someone explain how this works? or a video?
I agree that Vergil with Doom’s assist works better than the other way, but I don’t like Doom as an anchor. With the lineup I have, Doom can use Rapid Slash assist to push people to the corner where his damage/mixups are better. Also, I agree that Vergil needs XF and levels to be effective as an anchor, but he almost always has that since Zero and Doom don’t need much meter.
I’ve tried experimenting with Flocker’s team. It’s my go-to team against Phoenix players, since Vergil and Hawkeye both do well against her. I don’t like the team as a default since I like having a y-axis assist with Zero, and because Vergil and Hawkeye both need meter. I agree that this is a great team, though.
You’re right, Wolverine doesn’t do anything special for Zero. Chun-Li’s leg assist is really good, but it scales damage and overall I don’t think she’s a very good character right now - but I’m no expert on her so I’d ask around the tier list thread or the Chun forums.
Zero doesn’t need assists, you can put whoever you want in the second spot. Wolverine is a good choice especially since his DHC options are great, Berserker charge is great to safely get Zero out and his hyper that does the big X does a ton of damage. Doom should be more than enough of an assist for Zero and wolverine.
btw, use berserker barrage for Wolverines assist since it does a decent job at pinning your opponent down for left/right mix-ups
I play the triple midget team, but I have Arthur instead of Ammy…
Zero/Firebrand/Arthur is a damn fun team to use.
I use Demon Missile (M) as assist with Firebrand… with that you can convert from airgrabs with Zero easily, extend midscreen combos to corner without any worries to setup lightloop…
And mixup at short range…
Also, if I have to put Arthur on point he can cover the ground while I spam something at normal jump height.
With Arthur instead of Ammy you get fullscreen hitconfirms to both chars from daggers assist instead of Cold Star unblockable setups to Firebrand, mixup potential is pretty much the same with both assists if you’re fast.
alright i’ll def. stick with wolv then. also, do you happen to know any tricks involving wolv/zero? besides the b.barrage mixup you mentioned.
Not really, but Zero is loaded with tricks of his own
Well, I was hoping of having a character to help me continue my midscreen bnbs, but maybe b.barrage can do the job. if not i guess ill just figure out a solo midscreen bnb.
here
[media=youtube]UnT7RqV-qGM[/media]
I wanted to make another thread for the Lightning Loop alone, but I guess this could fit here. If anybody thinks it’s better to make a new thread let me know.
This are the following DHCs that can set up the Lightning Loop.
Spoiler
Sentinel
- Hard Drive
Timing: Strict. Has to be done quickly after the last hit that send the opponent flying. TK :l: Raikouzen close to the ground to continue the combo. - Hyper Sentinel Force
Timing: No problem. Similar to Million Dollars, you can set up a non TK Raikouzen at the beginning of the setup. It’s also better to go to the variant version of the Lightning Loop (the same one you use with Million Dollars) to build meter.
Dante
- Million Dollars
Timing: No problem. You have a ton of time to set it up. It’s preferable to change the Lightning Loop from the standar version so you earn more meter at the end. This would be something like: :l: Raikouzen > Buster xx :l: Raikouzen > TK :l: Raikouzen x3 > Buster xx :l: Raikouzen.
Strider
- Legion
Timing: Easy. Because of the distance Strider moves back when he does Legion, you’re gonna have to setup the loop first with a normal jump forward
Raikouzen an the continue to loop it.
Nemesis
- Bioweapon Assault
Timing: Super easy. You have a ton of time to set up whatever you want because the last hit of the super launches the opponent so high. - Biohazard Rush
Timing: Easy. Just wait until Nemesis hits for the last time in the super and setup first with a TK :l: Raikouzen.
Phoenix Wright
- "Order in the Court"
Timing: Easy. Again, just wait till the Judge’s hammer hits at the end of the super and follow up with a TK :l: Raikouzen. The bounce isn’t that high like Nemesis’ supers, but high enough to make the timing on the Raikouzen not strict.
Nova
- Gravimetric Blaster
Timing: Very Strict. You have to DHC into Sougenmu as soon as the last hit of Nova’s super finishes and then do a TK :l: Raikouzen as early as possible. Maybe not as strict for a Nova player that know the timing of his super already, but pretty above average in difficulty. It is to note that I tested this after a :f::d::df::l: OTG into Gravimetric Blaster on the ground.
Rocket Raccoon
-
Rock “n” Roll
Timing: Super easy. DHC when the machine gun bullets are over, before the blue ball is starting to charge. Gives a ton of time to do anything you want, probably one of the highest and most floaty bounces of any DHC. -
Frank West
-
Blue Light Special
Timing: Weird/Difficult. DHC right after the last hit of the cart. Follow up with a TK :l: Raikouzen and jump back before releasing the buster. Timing can get a little weird at the beginning of the LL. -
Funny Face Crusher
Timing: Weird/Strict. If you hit it while Frank is facing the corner, DHC on the hit before the last hit of the super (so, before Frank slams the opponent on the ground) and follow up with a TK Raikouzen then jump Buster and continue the loop. -
Survival Techniques
Timing: Super easy/easy. If you DHC on the last hit of the super, just follow up with a TK :l: Raikouzen. The timing is not difficult on that one. If you wanna make it even more easy, DHC on the hit before the last hit of the super so the opponent flies up really high and you have a ton of time to set up anything.
Dormammu
- Chaotic Flame
Timing: Dependent on Hitstun/Strict. If Dormammu’s combo is long, a normal TK :l: Raikouzen setup will not work, so you have to change the first TK :l: Raikouzen into a TK :h: Raikouzen. So, after the last hit of Chaotic Flame, immediately DHC into Zero and do a TK :h: Raikouzen as soon as you can. Time the fall after the TK :h: Raikouzen and release the buster when close to the ground so you can follow up with a normal loop. It is to note that if you somehow land a raw Chaotic Flame or a very small combo in the corner, you can follow up with a normal TK :l: Raikouzen setup at the beginning. Combos used are in the spoiler tag below.
Spoiler
Combo that Required a :h: Raikouzen: [Dormammu] Tri-Dash j.:l: > cr.:l: > cr.
>s.:h: xx :f::h: xx Flight Mode > j. > j.:h: > j.:s: > land > :s: > j. > j. > j.:h: > j.:s: > land > :f::d::df::l: xx Chaotic Flame.
Combo that Could be Setup with a TK :l: Raikouzen: [Dormammu] Tri-Dash j.:s: > cr. > s.:h: xx :f::h: xx Flight Mode > j.:h: > j.:s: > land > cr.:h: xx Chaotic Flame.
- Stalking Flare
Timing: Needs a Specific Combo Setup/Difficult. I managed to get a LL after a Stalking Flare but I used a very specific, and short combo (see spoiler tag below). It seems that as long as you wait for the Stalking Flare to almost finish, then make Zero jump and do a :h: Raikouzen just after the Stalking Flare dissapears (which means all the hits have connected) then time your fall to release a Buster > :l: Raikouzen to continue the loop. Pretty sure this can be done in longer combos, seeing how Stalking Flare keeps them there enought for the :h: Raikouzen to hit easily. Also try to DHC into Zero a little late, so you have more Sougenmu time while you wait for the Stalking Flare to finish hitting.
Spoiler
Combo into Stalking Flare: [Dormammu] j.:s: > cr. > s.:h: xx :f: :h: xx Stalking Flare > DHC Late into Zero’s Sougenmu.
Wolverine
- Fatal Claw (Super Jump Height)
Timing: Weird/Normal. If you DHC really early while Fatal Claw is hitting (before the enemy switches sides with Wolverine) , you can follow with a TK :l: Raikouzen then normal jump back and Buster > :l: Raikouzen to continue the loop.
Ghost Rider
- Hellfire Maelstrom
Timing: Varies. You can link a TK :l: Raikouzen if you DHC before Ghost Rider slams the opponent to the ground. It’s better to try and get them as high as possible during the OTG :l: Hellfire so you can more time to link the :l: Raikouzen after you DHC. I found that if you DHC close to when Ghost Rider is hitting the opponent (you can actually see the “hit yellow attack burst” when you are DHCing), it makes it easier to link the Raikouzen.
Viper
- Emergency Combination
Timing: Normal. DHC right after the last hit of the super. TK :l: Raikouzen to link at the bottom. It is possible to do it “too early”, so don’t do it so instantly. - Burst Time
Timing: Normal. DHC right after the last hit of the super. TK :l: Raikouzen as fast as you can to link at the bottom.
Spencer
- Bionic Arm
Timing: Normal. DHC right after the last hit of the super. TK :l: Raikouzen fast so you can to link at the bottom. - Bionic Bomber
Timing: Normal. DHC right after the last hit of the super. TK :l: Raikouzen fast so you can to link at the bottom.
Tron
- King Kobunn
Timing: Easy. While the giant Servbot is hitting, you can setup anything you want. You might be able to add an extra TK :l: Raikouzen at the beginning before starting the loop with buster > :l: Raikouzen. - Lunch Time
Timing: Easy. Just wait until almost all the Servbots are finishing hitting so you can link with a TK :l: Raikouzen to continue the combo.
Hulk
- Gamma Crush
Timing: Depends on Combo. If Hulk’s combos is short enough, Zero can OTG with Setsuizan xx Buster xx :l: Raikouzen to continue the combo. Combo that worked and I used below in the spoiler tag.
Spoiler
Combo that Allows Zero to OTG: [Hulk] j. > cr. xx :f::d::df::h: + :h: > land > > :s: > j. > j. > j.:h: > j.:s: > land > :l: Gamma Wave xx Gamma Crush
- Gamma Quake
Timing: Easy. Just time a jumping :l: Raikouzen as all the rocks finish hitting.
Storm
- Hail Storm
Timing: Easy. Just time a jumping :l: Raikouzen as all the crystals finish hitting. - Elemental Rage
Timing: Normal. DHC before the last hit (wall hit) and time a TK :l: Raikouzen to continue into the loop. - Lightning Storm
Timing: Difficult/Height Dependent. I managed to get a LL after a simple combo on the ground with Storm (combo below in spoiler tag). Do a TK :l: Raikouzen as soon as you can to continue into the LL.
Spoiler
Combo that Allowed for a LL: [Storm] cr. xx :f: Lightning Attack xx :f: Lightning Attack xx Lightning Storm.
Deadpool
- Cuttin’ Time
Timing: Easy/Side Dependent. Just DHC before the last hit of the super, but also when Deadpool is on the left side if you are on the right wall, or DHC when Deadpool is on the right side of the opponent if you are on the left wall. Activate Sougenmu for the DHC as if you were facing the wall you are in. Follow up with a TK :l: Raikouzen to continue the combo. Note: You are going to be a little far from the corner than with other DHCs, but the timing for the loop doesn’t change because you are still close enough to continue the LL.
Akuma
- Messatsu-Goshoryu
Timing: Difficult/Heigh Dependent. If you can land the super during the opponent is high off the ground, if you DHC into Sougenmu during a certain hit on Akuma’s super, you can link a TK :l: Raikouzen at the bottom. This may even be hitstun specific, so requires more testing. Akuma’s super has 3 sets of 3 punches each. So set one has the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd hits. Set two has the 4th, 5th, and 6th hits of the super. And the last set has the 7th hit, the 8th hit, and final 9th hit of the super. You need to DHC as soon as the 8th hit of the super hits. It seems also that hitstun makes the opponent fall faster on the 8th hit, so I will post in a spoiler tag below the combo that allowed me to do a LL after.
Spoiler
Combo that allowed to Continue with a LL: [Akuma] cr.:l: > cr. > cr.:h: xx :h: Gohadouken xx Messatsu-Goshoryu.
- Messatsu-Gohado Ungyo
Timing: Difficult. This is Akuma’s ground version of this super. I will post the combo I got this work with, but I think this might not be affected by hitstun deterioration. DHC into Sougenmu just after the last hit of Akuma’s super.
Spoiler
Combo Used: j.:s: > cr.:l: > cr. > cr.:h: xx :h: Tatsu > cr. > :s: > j.:h: xx 
:d::db::l: + :l: > land > Messatsu-Gohado Ungyo
Haggar
- Rapid Fire First
Timing: Easy. DHC right after the last hit of the super. I recommend to dash first before doing the TK :l: Raikouzen, because the super ends a little far from the corner, but it should work if you do it like usual.
Jill
- Raven Spike
Timing: Normal. DHC right on the last hit of the super. Follow up with a TK :l: Raikouzen to continue the combo.
Amaterasu
- Okami Shuffle
Timing: Difficult. There’s different setups for this because it depends on how high the opponent is when the super hits. You just have to know that it is always possible, just different timings to hit the first Raikouzen. I did my setup after an OTG with Amaterasu with (Glaive)j.:df::h: xx j.:d::df::f::s: xx Okami Shuffle, then DHCed into Sougenmu right when the Thunders appear during the super (after the Ice). Then, I dashed back > normal jump up :l: Raikouzen and then continue the loop. Not that hard, just find the setup for your combo.
Trish
- Round Harvest
Timing: Very Difficult. There’s not a lot of combos that allow you to combo into Round Harvest, but if you get it, just DHC into Sougenmu an do the following setup. What I did was: DHC to Sougenmu as soon as Round Harvest hits, then count around 1.5 seconds, then dash back and super jump and do a :h: Raikouzen, then time your fall to release Buster xx :l: Raikouzen to continue into the LL.
She-Hulk
- Esmerald Cannon
Timing: Difficult. After the second hit of Esmerald Cannon, wait for She Hulk to cross the opponent up and the DHC into Sougenmu. Then, quickly dash forward and jump to do a :l: Raikouzen > jump forward Buster > :l: Raikouzen to continue into the LL.
Magneto
- Magnetic Shockwave
Timing: Very difficult or Easy/Combo dependent. You need to quickly wave dash back until you are far away from the opponent and activate Magnetic Shockwave very fast so it OTGs the opponent. After that, DHC instantly into Zero and do an instant Raikouzen to continue into the LL. This setup is only for reallt advanced and long combos. If the combo is short enough, Zero can just OTG with Setsuizan xx Buster xx :l: Raikouzen to continue into the LL even though the timing for the first Raikouzen is a bit strange (the same as Hulk - Meteor Smash).
Vergil
- Dimension Slash
Timing: Random. Depending on Dimension’s Slash hits, you can sometimes link a TK :l: Raikouzen at the bottom. It also matters at what distance you end up after the DHC. Vergil and Zero don’t need this much seeing how Vergil can just loop Spiral Swords, so Vergil doesn’t real’y need DHCs much. If the combo is very short, you can OTG Setsuizan xx Buster xx :l: Raikouzen to continue into the LL.
Viewtiful Joe
- Desperado (Air)
Timing: Normal. If you end with a Desperado at super jump height, you can DHC into Sougenmu and do a TK :l: Raikouzen to finish the combo.
X-23
- Weapon X Prime
Timing: Normal. DHC until X-23 fully crosses up the opponent after the last hit of her super, and the DHC into Zero and do a TK :l: Raikouzen to continue the combo.
Spider-Man
- Maximum Spider (Air)
Timing: Weird/Hard. If you land a Maximum Spider with the opponent being at super jump height, you can DHC into Sougemu, wait until the opponent is near you (normal jump height) and back dash > jump up Buster xx :l: Raikouzen to continue the combo.
Hsien-Ko
- Tenrai Ha
Timing: Random/Normal. Tk :l: Raikouzen while the spiked spheres are hitting and sometimes you can get the LL to work. Depends on the hits of the spheres. If the combo leading into this is small enough, you can OTG Setsuizan xx Buster xx :l: Raikouzen to continue into the LL.
Shuma-Gorath
- Hyper Mystic Smash
Timing: Random/Easy. If the combo leading into this is small enough, you can OTG Setsuizan xx Buster xx :l: Raikouzen to continue into the LL. If the opponent is high enough when the super hits, if you DHC close to one of the spiked balls hitting, you can link a TK :l: Raikouzen to continue the combo.
M.O.D.O.K
- Hyper Psyonic Blaster
Timing: Height Dependent/Level Dependent. (Lv.1 Super) try to bring the enemy above the ground before doing the super so the opponent floats in the air after the DHC as high as possible (OTG cr. xx :l: Psyonic Blaster xx Hyper Psyonic Blaster was enough for me) and the followup with a TK :l: Raikouzen. (Max Level Super) DHC as soon as the last hit of the super hits (very strict) and follow up with an instant TK :l: Raikouzen. If the combo leading into this is small enough, you can OTG Setsuizan xx Buster xx :l: Raikouzen to continue into the LL.
Thor
- Mighty Tornado (close to the ground)
Timing: Normal. If you end a combo with a close to the ground Mighty Tornado, you can link a TK :l: Raikouzen at the bottom to continue into the lightning loop.
Combo used for this below inside the spoiler tag. I am not sure if HSD could affect this, even if it’s so close to the ground.
Spoiler
[Thor] cr.:l: > cr. > :s: > (j. > j. > j.:h: > j.:s:)-delayed- > land > :f::d::df::h: (hold to maximum) xx Might Tornado.
Wesker
- Phantom Dance
Timing: Random/Very Strict. Depending on when you DHC, or how the super hits, you can sometimes get a TK :l: Raikouzen to combo at the bottom. If you do the super as high as possible, you get better results becaue you have more time to link at the bottom.
Chris
- Sweep Combo
Timing: Easy. Just DHC after the last hit and link a TK :l: Raikouzen at the bottom to continue into the LL. - Grenade Launcher
Timing: Normal. DHC as soon as the lightning shot hits. The just wait for the last hit to OTG and do a TK :l: Raikouzen to continue into the LL.
Hawkeye
- Super Scattered Shot
Timing: Combo dependent. If you manage to have the enemy close to the ground enough when the super hits, DHC instantly into Sougenmu and follow up by jumping and doing an :h: Raikouzen and time the fall to release Buster xx :l: Raikouzen and the continue into the LL. As long as at least 2 of the 3 shots that Hawkeye fires hit, you have enough time to link the Raikouzen it seems. May need further testing.
Phoenix
- Phoenix Inferno
Timing: Normal. The super will wall bounce the opponent, so DHC fast and do two back dashes so you are well setup for the :l: Raikouzen. After that, just forward normal jump Buster xx :l: Raikouzen to continue the combo.
You missed RR Mad Hopper: derp easy
How do you get it? Anytime I tried it in the corner, the other character flips out opposite to the corner.
You just use the L+H version of Mad Hopper into Sougenmu, you have half a century to confirm it.
That sends them front? That would explain everything lol.
I will update tomorrow. Super tired right now, that list took like more than 2 hours to complete.