21

Sir Cactus, this is certainly not a private thread. Also, certainly, anyone who both plays Hsien-ko and has the “Squadalah” guy as his avatar is welcome to barge in!

Spoiler

I unfortunately do not know the answer to your question.

22

Ah, well thank you, Mr. Karst. I’ll check back in the morning to see if the other guy knows.

23

yep it is the unity page http://www.capcom-unity.com/s-kill
my guess would be to put it in the comments section

24

To be completely honest I disagree with most of the wish list.
I know this is not going to be a post that will receive a lots of likes but anyway I’ll try to make the type of comment I imagine somebody like Seth would do reading Karst’s wishlist.

I agree with the need of an universal hit confirm: Cr.M should not whiff against anybody.
“s.S is made safe on block” this is not a good idea, Dorm’s S has a great vertical and horizontal hitbox and it does nullify projectiles; it should not be made safe. As a Dorm player I’d love to abuse of a safe :S: but it’s simply not fair.

"Cancelable Ground Dashes" Dorm with a wave dash? I guess it could be done but this is not something which needs to be fixed, it’s just something that we want because it would make Dorm stronger. If someone throw out a random hyper and we’re dashing we can block by jumping backward.

***“Close-Range Defense” ***The point of being a zoner is that we have to keep our opponents far from us so I accept the fact that the close-rage defense is a Dorm’s weakness.

***“0D1C and 0D2C OTG” **“0D3C Given Purpose” ***The only reason for buffing those dark spells is for the sake of variety but it’s not something that really need to be fixed. Doing those changes will result in a non necessary buff.

"Combo Variety" The problem here is that if you give Dorm a more complex combo that deals more damage you’re buffing the damage output of a character that already deals good damage, while if you give him a harder combo that does the same damage nobody will ever do it.
The only possibilities is to give Dorm a new combo that does more or less the same damage but that builds more meter.
Anyway the air liberation may be the answer to this request.

***“Flame Carpet Duration Increased” ***both increasing the duration and making it special/hyper cancelabe would be too OP.
The flame carpet is something that’s easy to make unbalanced. BUT, knowing that in Ultimate it will disappear if Dorm gets hit, I think that making it lasts 5 seconds would be fair.

***“Non-Maxed Liberations Useful” ***Same thing as for the previous dark spells requests.

"Liberations Cause No Hitstun or Damage Scaling" It would result in a exaggerated damage output increase.

***“Tracking Purification Assist” ***Purification assist need to be fixed, it’s completely pointless as it is right now. My suggestion is to reduce the start up from 56 to (at least) 30 frames.

In conclusion I think we should abandon the “my-char-needs-buffs” mentality: there are a couple of things that should to be fixed but Dormammu is not a character that needs buffs.

25

Duke, I think your criticisms are largely ignoring the context of the claims.

This is an either/or situation, as in, if c.M is not made universal as a landing attack, then at least make s.S safe on block (-2 or -1 is fine). c.M not whiffing is a much stronger buff than s.S being safe on block.

Not all wave dashes are good. Spencer has a terrible wave dash, because the fastest part of his dash is at the end, not at the beginning. It’s entirely possible to give Dormammu crouch-cancelable dashes without making him faster as a result. This is important because c.L completely dominates Dormammu’s options; when back dashing, you can jump-cancel, but it has 4 pre-jump frames, during which c.L will hit you against fast characters. I simply think we should be able to crouch-cancel to block those sorts of pressure attempts when we are getting away, because we have no other options.

Certainly a weakness, but many zoners have something to help them. Taskmaster has Shield Skills and his counters, Dr. Strange has his counter, Arthur has his shield parry, Sentinel has armored attacks, etc. Dormammu has absolutely nothing to force you to respect his space. There’s a difference between having close-range options, which Dormammu completely lacks, and being able to be strong up close. I only want the former, even if it’s just 0D0C canceled into Chaotic Flame for forced space, but Chaotic Flame is punishable on block up close anyway.

This is why they are under “wanted”, and not “necessary”. It’s reasonable to WANT all of your character’s moves to have some purpose.

First of all, Dormammu has been given more combo damage since c.M chains to c.H now, so Capcom is clearly not opposed to this concept in principle. Secondly, meter is life for Dormammu - I would definitely do a much longer, more complex combo if it only gave me another 20K damage or so but a lot more meter.

This statement is within the context of a Flame Carpet that disappears on hit. Yes, the buffs are either/or. Right now there’s just no hope in the world for Dormammu to get a Flame Carpet out against Wesker and other characters with fast projectiles. It’s going to fall into disuse quickly, whereas formerly it was his best move.

And same response, as well.

Then maybe - gasp - people would use them in combos? Hahaha.

Still useless with this change.

I don’t have a “my character needs buffs” mentality. I really think your English-as-second-language stature is preventing you from understanding the point of this thread, which is to give some way to communicate the thoughts of Dormammu players to Capcom. Not once, ever have you seen me say “Dormammu needs buffs”, and I never will. I play what character I play; if I don’t like it, I’ll play someone else. How is Capcom supposed to know what we think if we never tell them?

26

I assure you that I know the purpose of threads like this one, that’s why I wrote

I don’t have the time for a long multi-quote forum discussion, I’ll just say that you may not have used the words “my character needs buffs” but that’s what your post implies. Maybe you don’t see it because you’re the author but, for example, the close range defense thing is a buff request and there’s NO way it can be read differently.
I don’t want to appear rude but the facts are that Dorm has not a solid close range defense and you’re asking Capcom to buff this weakness, therefore you’re asking that your char becomes stronger and those are the kind of requests that people like Seth don’t wanna read.

I hope you’re not taking it personally.

PS: the purification assist with a reduced start up to at least 30 frames would not be useless. I can think to a lot of great things to do with such an assist with Zero, Sent, Haggar, Hulk and others. If they made it with a start up of nearly one second there’s a reason, they’re scared of those things.

27

The Creator Series of the Liberations really could/should be better. Making it better doesn’t mean that it has to be overpowered. Plus the whole thing with dark spells is to find a time to actually cast them so this is kind of fail safe built into the move. I Also think the 0C0D could be a decent defensive move up close if the hitbox was bigger.

They could do the Creators like this
-1C OTG and has the current scaling effect. (since its only one spell the scale helps balance out the extended combo and the ease of access)
-2C OTG’s and doesnt scale(or scales less) and this is the highest damaging creator spell
-3C Activates in a Similar manner to Gravitation(Magneto) with the current effect but can/cant be blocked still.( If blockable: basically it can hit you any where on the stage, Sj, Grounded etc but it can be blocked. If it hits it stops all jumps and if a character is mid jump/Sj they are brought down to the ground and there jumping is locked for the regular time period) I dont know if this would be to good if you couldnt block it being that it could take effect anywhere. What do you guys think?

The Cr.mp was unessicary but if it still cancels Dark Matter and to Dark Hole after an AA i guess it won’t be so bad. The flame carpet nerf on the other hand might end up being really bad but thats something that will be discovered in time.

28

Having things changed in the affirmative is not necessarily an overall buff. “My character needs buffs” means “My character needs to be BETTER”. I want tweaking and accept some of the nerfs to Dormammu, like Flame Carpet and c.M. It’s a fundamentally different argument to claim Dormammu is overall better when you incorporate my proposed changes along with the ones Capcom has made.

I don’t want him to be “solid” up close, just to have an option, much like every other zoning character has an option in this game. And it’s silly to think that Seth doesn’t want to hear about character weaknesses. Just look at his conversation with EvilRahsaan over Spider-man. Do you think Seth only wants to hear people talk about nerfs their characters should get? Feedback is feedback, and the purpose is to put something up for consideration.

It has a slow startup because ALL assists are [Normal Startup] + 24 frames in startup. There’s no balance or thought behind it at all. Hence why, if you check the BradyGames guide for the startup on Dormammu’s Liberation assist, it says “variable”. Admittedly, I only checked 3-4 characters for this, but all of them followed this formula.

Again, to repeat the point: Capcom doesn’t even consider assist startup times as a balance measure.

Even if Purification were fast, it would still be bad just because there are significantly stronger anti-airs like Jam Session and Hidden Missiles that lead to full combos. Purification doesn’t; its saving grace should be screen control.

nods Some small thing like that is all I really want.

29

feedbacks are feedbacks… but those who have the form of a whine doesn’t get taken seriously. That’s what I was trying to say.

You remember that Purification hits OTG right?
Also it can be used to extend combos, it’s just not as brain dead as jam session.

30

Are you attempting to accuse me of whining? If you are, that’s ludicrous, since I went through an enormous amount of effort to explain the reasoning behind my feedback. If not, I don’t know why you’re bringing it up at all.

Who could really relaunch using Purification except for the heavies, since they have ground bounce aerials? I would take Flame Carpet any day…

31

Crazy question: how would everyone here feel if Dark Dimension was a level 1 hyper? Its damage gets reduced to about 240K and it scales, but it still has the same properties otherwise. Personally, I think this would be an improvement in his game, but I’m curious what others think. The idea is that he could link two hypers at the end of combos much more easily if he needs a bit more damage, and it would have a lot of use as a utility hyper to counter things like random Hyper Sentinel Forces while trying to zone, which then would lead into a full combo with a proper assist.

Personally, I don’t find myself using Dark Dimension unless my first character gets mauled and I’m trying to make a comeback against someone troublesome. Meter is just too precious for Dormammu, and Dark Dimension’s damage is pretty weak for a level 3.

32

Why not just have Dark Dimension do just a tad more damage

33

Yeah, whine wasn’t the right word, let’s say that the feedbacks that transmit a polemic dissatisfaction instead of being aware that a character may have flaws without it being something to fix aren’t took seriously.

I’m getting a little tired, If you want to keep this attitude where you have nothing to learn you should avoid to talk about stuff you haven’t tested deeply enough.
Yes, there are non-heavy char that could benefit a lot from having a 30 frame purification assist, allowing them to relaunch and extend the combos.

Anyway, a lvl.1 Dark Dimension with the same amount of invincible flames would be too strong for Dormammu, it would completely change a good number of matchups such as the one with Spencer and Dante for example.

34

But they are taken seriously. Why do you think Dormammu is faster in UMvC3? Why do you think he can charge Dark Spells in the air? Why are his Pillars faster? It’s because Dormammu players en masse have said: “this character cannot zone effectively, he has to rush”. We brought that to Capcom’s attention, and we got buffs to Dormammu’s zoning game. You are mistaken. Also, nothing about what I said is polemic, not in the slightest.

I get tired of your terrible English comprehension skills, and yet I still talk to you. Let’s run down what just happened:

I bolded the important parts to help you. These are small sentences, but it seems as though your language skills are suspect enough that you can understand me to mean the exact opposite of what was said. You said Purification hits OTG. I asked who could benefit from that besides heavies. You criticized me for thinking I have nothing to learn.

In what world is asking for more information equivalent to stating I have nothing to learn? The conclusion is the opposite of what you ought to have drawn from my statement.

I want to know: who can really relaunch using Purification?

By “really”, what I mean to insinuate is “realistically”; certainly, Magneto could catch an opponent in the air after Purification and do a flight loop, but that’s going to be really difficult - no one will use it for that.

Why is that undesirable? It would take some of his terrible matchups, like Spencer, against whom it’s actually BAD to lay Flame Carpet, and Dante, who Dormammu has no real response to unless the player is bad, and makes them reasonable matchups with options for Dormammu, albeit at the cost of meter.

35

You’re so intellectually dishonest that you’re keeping out of your quotes your fist answer to my comment. After i said that purification assist should be faster you wrote that it would be* “Still useless with this change” *(your words).
So don’t try that “you lack comprehension skills” with me because you’re making fun of yourself.
You should have written that you don’t know how a faster purification assist would help but instead you choose to use your “online warrior” attitude and answered that embarrassing pile of crap.
Let’s make a game: I’m telling you that there are non-heavy characters (more than one) that can use a faster purification to extend their combos and deal more damage. I’m talking about solid combos that can be used “realistically”.
I want to see if you can find at least one.

It’s funny how you still haven’t realized why Dorm got those buffs. It’s simply because Dorm zoning style loses against other zoners.
In Ultimate they want the game to be more about zoning so the buffs in this direction on the rest of the cast would completely destroy Dorm’s matchups. That’s the reason Dorm’s being buffed, not your ridiculous wish list.
Capcom listens to the top players tips for game balance issues, the mass’ opinion is taken into consideration only for marketing and esthetically subjects. You must be so naive if there’s the need to explain this.

Pro-tip: Dorm-Spencer is an even matchup :open_mouth:
Sure, you shouldn’t use the carpet how you use it in other matchups but it’s still even.
If you get bodied it’s probably because you’re not good enough :frowning:

Try to get your ass out of your house and go to a tournament, maybe your skill and your game comprehension will improve and you’ll stop with all the bullshit you post in this forum (lol I even remember your ludicrous statement regarding an hypothetical flame carpet assist, you was trying to say that it would not be OP. That still crack me up!)
Most of the things you think should be improved about Dorm are ok, it’s just that you are an average online player who doesn’t have the knowledge to discuss about game balance, and I’ve already been too patient with you.

36

If you really dislike me so much, I suggest ignoring my posts in the future; it might be better for your blood pressure.

I said it was still useless, and I think it is useless. Then you claimed it is not, so I asked you to prove it. Then, instead of making ANY kind of demonstration of knowledge, you whined that I’m not willing to consider another perspective, and am too arrogant to learn. The order of our conversation in no way demonstrates the claim you are attempting to make. I clearly was (and am) willing to consider another perspective; that does not mean I don’t have a different perspective. Absolutely no inconsistency exists between my claims, regardless of how much you want me to be an “intellectually dishonest” person.

The proof is always on the burden of the person making the positive claim. I am sure someone could implement Purification in combos, and I said so; the question is how realistic its application would be in a tournament setting.

Oh really? A faster ground and air dash help his zoning against other zoners? That’s one of his biggest changes. What about ground throws no longer being a soft knockdown? I bet that really helps Dormammu’s zoning game. Attacking out of his down-back and up-back air dashes? Certainly that will stave off the wave of projectiles coming at him! These are all issues with Dormammu’s general game - they have nothing at all to do with him fighting other zoners.

It depends on the zoner matchup. Dormammu’s kara-canceled normals beat out a lot of zoning 1v1. The only zoners that scare me, as I have said in the past, are bullet-based zoners, since Dormammu’s normals can’t help him there. Dormammu certainly does not simply lose out to “other zoners” in general.

Certainly, many of Dormammu’s buffs help him against zoners - heck, all of them do. But to say that they are specifically buffs to his zoning game, “simply” to help him with other zoners, is categorically false.

Like the Sentinel health nerf, right? That was pros complaining, not bad players, and that’s why Justin Wong tweeted that “Sentinel’s health is not the problem, level 3 X-Factor is!” right after it happened - right? Or by “top players”, do you not mean to include the person who was actually best at the game at that time, and won every single tournament he went to?

Capcom looks at tournament results. Dormammu does not perform well in tournaments, and it’s not because he has problems with zoners.

You would have to be a somebody to give a “Pro” tip. Filipino Champ’s matches against ComboFiend show how difficult the matchup is for Dormammu. Unless you want to claim F. Champ, the only Dormammu user to make top 32 at Evo, is bad with Dormammu. Or maybe you, with your amazing Dormammu skills, could face off against a top Spencer player for us to show how even the matchup is?

Regarding your personal insult: I don’t have trouble with Spencer. I also have never really fought a good Spencer. My statement is purely based on watching high level play between the two characters. I don’t use my own matches as an argument for what a “good matchup” or “bad matchup” is. That would be silly. Though assuming I’m doing that is even more silly, as I never said “I find Spencer hard to kill”, etc. during this conversation.

Every player here knows that matchups are not based on personal experience, but rather tournament results.

That’s a wonderful ad hominem. You have a very weird, dubious tendency to go right to insulting a player’s skills or play company whenever they disagree with you about something. I’m not even the first person you have done this to: you automatically assume anyone who disagrees with you just isn’t good or has bad opponents. Since I don’t recall ever seeing a video of your amazing play (heck, I don’t even know your team), I certainly don’t judge you, but you see yourself fit to presume skill levels of others. Even if I went to tournaments and did well, your flaming would instead target me for only playing in “small nobody tournaments”, because it’s not my skills or play area you really want to get at (you don’t know anything about either), but instead that you just don’t like me, and want to insult me because it makes you feel better.

Flame Carpet would be fine as an assist. In fact, Dr. Strange got an assist very similar to Flame Carpet, and Firebrand got one that is arguably superior. Clearly Capcom doesn’t think the idea is too ridiculous in concept, since slightly modified versions of it are appearing in Ultimate.

If Dormammu is “ok”, then why isn’t he on top teams in Evo? He’s not because he has a lot of inherent weaknesses that can’t be overcome even with the best play. The only reason there was one Dormammu in the top 32 of Evo was thanks for Filipino Champ, and, intending no disrespect to him at all, his team got that far thanks to Phoenix, not Dormammu.

If you want to say you hate me, just say it and be done. Nothing you have said here has any grounding in reason, and you’re clearly someone who is just very angry and bitter. That you would even try to attack my level of play is ridiculous; at no point, ever, have I made a claim that I am a good or a bad Dormammu player, just that I love the character and enjoy using him. I like to make what knowledge I possess, hopefully with the help of others, available to those wanting to learn more about the character.

37

All I want is cr.M to combo into forward H again. :frowning:

38

Jintor on GAF said that it does. With no disrespect to him, he is a self-confessed noob, so he could be wrong.

Also, Dormammu has a full magic series now. As such, we might be able to do something like c.L, c.M, s.H, f.H, since s.H now probably causes more hitstun than c.M. We’ll see though, and I agree. c.M to f.H was like our only way to style outside of Liberations, haha.

Actually, my personal hunch is that with Dormammu having a significantly faster forward ground dash, we might be able to easily combo off of f.H now from mid-screen. It’s already possible in MvC3, but it’s pretty difficult to do consistently, and you don’t get much out of it for all your trouble. I’m almost entirely certain that it has never been done on a stream before.

39

Karst about the Lvl 3 change while I agree making that kind of a change would give players greater reason to use the move, I think the current forms main problem is the Beam Durability. I think that if it was either made higher or removed altogether and just became a hit or miss attack with the current properites the attack would see way more use.

40

Ah yes, I agree with you on that. I remember my first time trying to “counter” Shinkuu Hadoken with Dark Dimension…