Well, here’s the thing. What happens when the opponents stop making big mistakes? Then you end up just running away and dying. Spidey has enough tools to mix the opponent up when he has the chance. I understand where you are coming from, I used to think/play like that, but you need to also take advantage of the times when the opponent doesn’t have any assists on screen. Imo, that’s your short-lived chance to apply pressure and/or try to mix the opponent up.
Xero, I gotta say, I disagree with you about Disruptah. I know it hits quickly and it doesn’t always cause a soft knockdown, but I feel that it isn’t that hard to confirm off of if you choose the right time to call it and if you can keep up with your opponent. Though, there are times when it is very tough to confirm. Another good thing about it is that you can use it in block strings because it is relatively fast. Imo it is a worse version of triple arrow attached to a better character.
I agree that it seems like people only saw the web throw loop in Nemo’s matches. That dude proved that spidey has a great ground game.
Theoretically, if the opponent is not making any mistakes he is outplaying you. Not even the best character in this game can get the first hit if the opponent is not making mistakes. Somewhere along the line they are going to make an unsafe assist call or go for something risky. If you’re actively calling assists, they won’t want to be dealing with the chip and lockdown for very long and will try to punish your assist calls. Luckily for Spidey, that’s a bad idea in most cases 'cause he can counter punish attempts like those for free if he stays within zip range after calling an assist. There’s also the fact that Spidey can switch from defense to offense very quickly. I’m pretty sure I’ve said this before, but the goal of Spidey’s runaway is NOT to timer scam the whole thing. You will be actively trying to get a hit just as with anything else, you are just doing it by working around your opponent. If you see an opportunity to land a mixup, by all means zip over there and go for one, but you won’t get much success out of going in like that constantly. Spidey’s pressure gets really predictable after a while, so hit-and-run is the best way to keep the opponent on their toes.
Again runaway does nothing for him other than delay the game. Remember we are talking at peak potential. Zipping isn’t as strong as you think it is. It’s slow on start up and susceptiblw susceptible to pushblock changing its trajectory at times. Really its better used at short distances in general.
I think you misunderstood what I meant with disruptor. In the neutral its great at sniping but that’s it. It’s speed and lack of hit stun makes capitalizing on it from afar difficult. You can use it more offensive based like Desklamp said and I agree to an extent I still feel its not as effective as some others.
On the topic of his runaway I feel it’s only strong at being able to reassess a situation. When it’s used as a main tool thats when ww get match up issues against teams that stop that shit cold. He has excellent defensive tools at his ready when played correctly and has a fairly decent high low game when you control the ground space. I think the reason that’s not shown as much is because the lack of team/assist variations and everyones obsession with resets and other gimmicks that aren’t fully developed.
You know, I think we’re generally talking about the same thing in different ways. When you talk about runaway as a means to assess a situation that’s exactly the type of use I’m talking about: Instead of starting out the match aggressive, it’s best to take a step back and get a feel for the opponent first. When you get a feel for the opponent’s movement patterns then you can go in and run a mixup or two. If that doesn’t work out, go back to runaway and look for another opening. There should be a cycle of switching between offense and defense in order to make the most out of your attempts at landing a hit. The more aggressive they are, the more often Spidey can resort to runaway/punishing to get the hit. The more cautious they are, the more you can go in.
All I’m really trying to say is that Spidey isn’t really as effective in using the same linear strategies as other offensive characters. His pressure is good, but not scary, and his high/low mixups can also be good, but that’s after gaining the advantage in the neutral and he needs a lockdown assist for the better ones. He really should take advantage of the fact that he’s hard to cleanly hit when moving around to keep from getting purely outmatched by the other good point characters in this game. On that note, that’s why I feel his best teams will end up including characters that help both his offense and his defense. Disruptor is not an optimal horizontal assist at all, but Magneto himself is a good pick because he enhances Spidey’s utility and he’s more capable of picking up the slack if Spidey doesn’t do so hot in a particular match.
TBH, I really wish there was a good 2nd for a Spidey/X/Hawkeye team. Greyhound is the superior alternative to Disruptor, and gives Spidey all the ground control he needs to wreck shit. I can’t find a character that fits well in that position, though. Doom can’t use Greyhound very well, and most characters that do don’t mesh well with Spidey. Greyhound is definitely my pick for Spidey’s best horizontal assist though. If I could find a good second for that team I would probably find it more effective than Mags/Dante, even counting the cheap Hypergrav tech.
@KiyaaKing I didn’t say when the opponent stops making any mistakes, only when the opponent stops making big mistakes. For example, if a Magneto calls missiles without waiting for the proper time to call it, it’s still going to be really difficult to punish that assist call. If it is spidey alone and your assists are in cool down then forget about it, you are just going to have to move around those missiles because there is a slim chance that you hitting Doom with just spidey. A big mistake in that situation would be like if the magneto player kept doing :h: disruptor over and over again without cancelling it into shockwave when he sees you jump over it and airdash from full screen.
I just think that spidey has enough tools to be able to pressure someone into the corner where he can really get his mixups going and I don’t think his potential should be squandered by running away and maintaining your distance when you don’t have to.
Edit: Also, I want to clarify that I don’t think spidey should always be going in like Wolverine. @xero15 Yeah I see your point about disruptor. From around midscreen to fullscreen there is almost no shot you are converting off of a disruptor hit. The best things about disruptor are punishing assist calls or counter-calling and the fact that it’s attached to magneto. From midscreen or closer converting becomes a bit easier to confirm off of. You just need to know which confirm to use at the right time, like the basic LMH xx web throw, or s.:l: cr. cr.:h: xx web throw when they are a bit farther. Actually I’ll have to test that second one out later tomorrow to see if that one works consistently but I do something similar for my jump confirm and that works pretty well.
Alright. I still think you guys are greatly undervaluing Spidey runaway, but we can just agree to disagree on that. Anyways, I have a DHC-related question. Would you guys say that Spidey should always have someone who can reliably DHC from MS for the 2nd character? For example, Iron Man can DHC easily from CA but not so easily from MS(a full damage DHC is possible, but the timing varies with the MS height). I know that with Repulsar handy you could always opt for a CA finisher anyway, but what if you don’t have that available(or you run Unibeam)? Meanwhile, characters like Magneto and Storm can reliably DHC from any of Spidey’s hypers. How important would you guys say this is as far as maximizing damage off any given confirm?
If it won’t kill don’t opt for it. Obviously DHC synergy is important but it’s not hard to switch up the enders on Spidey’s combos to accommodate. Now on another note some characters can be DHC’d into for punishes that still end up with a dead character but that’s something entirely different
I’ve personally tried that team before. It seems to work really well at first, but then you start noticing all the holes in it and it doesn’t look so good after that. Both IM and RR’s assists can get bopped pretty easily, and since they don’t appear far behind Spidey like Plasma Beam or go far ahead of him like Jam Session happy birthdays will be common. Also, IM/RR is not the strongest if Spidey’s gone, and anchor RR has a really hard time against super jump upback.
Yo @Raoh since you run Hawkeye, have you ever considered going with Flocker’s shell and doing Spidey/Vergil/Hawk eye? It seems hella legit now, with the extra damage that you can get from web throw loops
I did, but I just didn’t find Vergil that fun to play, unfortunately. Though Spidey’s assists have limited use to Vergil, sting can work with Vergil’s high time and sword loops but timing is very iffy.
that team should be pretty good. you gotta be confident in your webthrow loops, but if u can get them consistenly, I don’t see any big problems for the team. greyhound is a really good neutral assist for spider-man and vergil.
I would assume the first rep would be DHC before touching ground, helm breaker to bring them down release sword c:h: xx :l: dimension slash c:h: then go as normal. I’m just guessing haven’t actually tried that’s just what seems to make sense
You can do the normal ones you usually see if you save the ground bounce and only use arrows assist. Do your bnb ending in MS then after the HKD, you activate swords then [high time + sting assist]* to sword loops. Just remember to have enough time to land Vergil’s d+H before the sword super ends so you can follow up with the wall and ground bounce to round trip.
If you have used both assists, you’ll have to do what Xero mentioned.
Since a lot of people love super jumping and flying around, i have recently fallen in love with Hawkeye’s scattershot assist. Honestly i dont know why people dont use it more b/c that soft knockdown is amazing. Not sure if should if i should be posting this question here or in the combo forum but if anybody experimented with the scatter shot assist have combos with it, could you post? thank you
I only recommend scatter shot on teams where you still have someone covering the horizontal plane. I also only really recommend scatter shot for characters that can actually zone.
waht are your thoughts on spidey web bal, strange bolts, doom missles
thoughts on any bad matchups? and team synergy? i can get the flames loops of of maximum spider to rings, by otging with missles . makes it easier.
bolts seems to help spidey, especially when u keep your air dash,
like web swing, call stragne, then u still have your air dash and actions and web zip left.
also i like how missles cross up, when u web swing then air dash , then web zip behind then while missles are coming down.
only problem with this team is small characters, but idk if thats a big deaL though.
but yea all the actions spidey can do full screen with bolts , seems very promising. only reason i seeto run strange anchor is for hawkeye and dormammu anchors
web throw, or s.:l: cr.