Wolverine with a beam runs circles around spidey. Due to his ground speed and low/fast jump arc he is able to shutdown Spidey’s zoning/run-away game just by dashing forward and jumping. Any matchup that forces spiderman to take a heavily offenses approach is terrible. I.E Wolv, Morrigan, Zero, etc
execution limits make the wolverine vs spiderman matchup worse than it potentially could be.
the spidey needs like perfect ground plinkdashing to play the matchup otherwise he will get wrecked in the air and on the ground whenever wolverine is close. spidey can run away but only if he has space to start up zip or web ball safely, and even then wolverine is fast enough to mix up spidey as he lands.
overall bad matchup but not terrible because spidey has a projectile and some ok but kind of risky anti airs
basically forced to match wolverine’s speed with ground dashes
Even if you have perfect plink dashes and establish some space for zoning wolv will be the one pressuring you into the corner where you are forced to either fight on the ground and play his game or hit sj height and get mixed up on the way down.
Wolvie doesn’t have a projectile though. I know you’re probably thinking “but Spidey’s projectile sucks” and for the most part it does, but just having a projectile with any reasonable amount of durability is huge in this game. Zip-cancelled air web-balls are hard for Wolvie to stop unless he’s right under Spidey. Hell, web-zip in general can be used to stuff Wolverine’s approaches. In my experience, as long as you stay about jump height and stay ready to tech an air throw Wolverines can be stalled, at least until they have to drop their momentum a bit to change up their strategy. That’s when you can go offensive and try to intercept them. On that note, I’ve found that against divekick characters a good throw OS is to web zip immediately after a throw attempt/tech. The extra air time Spidey gets keeps him from getting divekicked and allows for a punish in some situations(this doesn’t work against characters like Vergil, though).
Web balls are fine and dandy but the problem is spidermans hang time and web ball start up is abysmal since it increases his hang time exponentially. The second you normal jump and shoot a web ball you give wolv permission to dash under you or simply jump towards you and cover what little space you were able to create. Staying normal jump height is literally the worst thing you can do in that matchup. Wolv is king at that height with OS dive kicks and grabs. If anything you increase the risk of accidental chicken blocks and mixing yourself up. Also web zips don’t stop wolvies approach. That just sounds like inexperience from the people you are playing. Any competent Wolvie will space out dive kicks accordingly to intercept the angle of approach.
I haven’t played in awhile but when I did, sweep xx spider sting xx zip cancel , call assist + jump H was a pretty effective way of defending yourself and simultaneously getting offense started whenever Wolvie is one dash ahead away from you. It’s the main reason why I feel it’s a much better match up for spidey than mags
I wouldn’t say that hang time is a bad thing. In fact, it can be used to save you from grab attempts and the like. You can use H web ball against a Wolvie directly under you to stop his normal jump from reaching and then zip-cancel before the web ball comes out to get to the other side of the screen. Then the Wolverine player is forced to SJ in order to catch you, and that’s where you can use ground dashes to get around him. I will agree that raw web zip is not the strongest way to deal with Wolvie, so you may be right about the players just not having enough experience vs Spidey, but I was just throwing it out there as an extra option if you can get away with it.
Normal jump height is only bad to be at when Wolverine is right next to you or under you, but since Spidey has a better ground dash than Wolvie you can distance yourself a little bit before taking to the air. Wolverine’s divekick is good, sure, but I wouldn’t say it dominates the air. Spider-Man has quite a few air options that can avoid divekicks and airthrows. Airdashing can also help vs a grounded Wolverine. While it’s technically unsafe, Spidey’s airdash is long and covers a good distance. If the Wolvie didn’t already anticipate the dash, he won’t have enough time to catch him before the dash is over (this is assuming the Wolverine player is right next to you starting out). IMO, any time where you force the Wolverine to react to you puts you at the advantage. His linear playstyle is a lot easier to deal with when he has to think about what he’s doing.
Personally when fighting against wolverine I never use webthrows unless they are assisted or from full screen. Tools to be successful, good confirms on the spider bite after spidersting preferably the lp version. Also c.mp is what shuts down just bout every dive kick attempt that is unassisted. Tk lp webball n tk webswings buy some breathing room plus u can plink dash behind lp webballs. Its not a hard match just don’t allow yourself to be pinned into staying on the ground cuz then ur susceptible to mix-ups involving berserker slash n beserker charge. Attempting to tech throws against wolvie is dangerous cuz if air tech throw u could get drill clawed or dive kicked. Wolvie has to be close to be successful but ironically so does Spidey.
I know there are some players around here who think that Spidey doesn’t need a beam assist as long as you control his neutral game well enough.
But even if that’s true, I think the Wolverine-beam assist match up is one of those match ups where a beam is essential to match his assist and stop him from getting in and getting a mix up at the same time.
Why would a Wolvie ever need to SJ to catch you? Once again that sounds like gross inexperience a Wolv has no need to leave the NJ height in this matchup. Once spiderman hits the air you have to come down eventually and spiderman doesn’t have the speed or the unpredictability of an 8 way air dash. His regular air dash and zip line are easily reacted to and choreographed. Stop theory crafting under the assumption the wolv is incompetent.
You say Spidey’s zip and airdash are too slow? Please tell me what you mean, because I do web zips to the opposite side of the screen all the time and it’s just about the fastest way any character can move aside from a teleport. If you cancel the zip with a normal you can take Spidey literally to the other side of the stage. It doesn’t matter if the player is Justin Wong. He’s not going to have an easy time catching that.
If the person you are playing against is letting you zipline and air dash to the opposite side of the screen with impunity then that said wolverine is just god awful. You don’t even need to be good at plink dashing to catch spiderman you just need to be able to dash and jump in given directions.
Both Spidey’s dash and zip have startup. The air dash doesn’t have so much but it’s enough for Wolverine to super jump and catch you while you can’t block. Web zip is only as good as the ending point it has to reach. Really, any Spidey player who decides to run most of the time can usually be stopped by any grounded opponent if they wait roughly about midscreen ready to wave/plink dash and as long as they stay patient. Spidey can only change his trajectory a few times in the air, half of which he must be committed to doing prior.
spidey’s airdash is just slow and vulnerable and he doesn’t have a gigantic 5f multihitting air normal or flight mode
if he had a backwards airdash like in HnH though his viability would go up by like 2 points
on a scale of like 100
This is part of what I have been saying. I said that this will require the Wolvie player to use super jump in order to catch it and that this strategy is only for when Wolverine is right next to you. I never said that it’s hard to anticipate, but that it’s hard to react to. The wolvie player can’t just do his own thing and then expect to intercept a well placed zip to the other side of the screen on reaction. Once the startup on the zip is over, Spidey’s already out of range. That’s all I’m saying. If the Wolvie is smart and distances himself a bit to meet Spidey halfway, then that’s when you can cancel the zip into a web ball or something to stop yourself from falling into his clutches. It’s not an easy/braindead job for Spidey, but it’s definitely not free for Wolvie like I’m hearing here.
air web zip xx air web ball = suicide.
I don’t think the matchup is free for Wolverine either, especially if spidey has the right assists, but floating around at normal jump height sounds like an awful plan. If you want to approach him from the air then I think you should at least do a wall jump because you don’t get blown up by dive kick as easily. Drill claw is still a threat though, and you could get thrown.
Also, I think you are under estimating how much startup web zip has when you are in the middle of the screen. It’s not very hard to dash under the web ball, jump and OS dive kick/grab.
Its all pretty much a high stakes poker game, both chrcs are ssuccessful based on who can call each others bluffs. Experienced Wolvie players will attemt to bait Spidey players into throwing out moves like spidersting or webballs that are far from unsafe. Common sense most Wolvie players will also push block to counter against normal moves w/ slow recovery like s.Fp or c.Fp. Webswing is good for pressure but based on screen placement n the strength of the webswing Wolvie can still dash under it to punish or attempt a dive kick which could result in a 60/40 for the attempt w/ Wolvie typically being the one to recover faster. True webzipping is risky but if backed by a beam assist or good durability u can attempt overheads w/ a.Mp, a.Mp to open Wolvie up which is something thathe must adhere to n stand to block or get opened up. Remember Wolvie can apply pressure to send ppl to the corner but so can Spidey since his attacks out of webzip n webswing propel him forward. Tk the Fp webswing or light during a beam assist helps to break the pressure to because even Iif Wolvie does block right Spidey is still going forward pass the back of Wolvies head n he can’t push block that which enables Spidey to go for a dirty crossup out of Tk.Fp webswing into a.Fp, webzip which should have Spidey now already crossed up on Wolvie applying the pressure in the opposite direction.
Hey guys, so I know Spidey/Frank stuff has been brought up before, but I recently decided to check out that duo and see if there was anything worthwhile. It was one of the only shells I haven’t tried yet, since beforehand I figured there weren’t many ways they benefit each other more than other characters, but I’m really surprised at how well Spidey can use Shopping Cart. I previously thought this assist was more for the pure rushdown type, but I’m finding that you can do a lot more with it. The speed and active time of the assist are perfect for Spidey to take advantage of while on offense or defense. He can use it as a lockdown assist for high-lows or as a defensive assist to gain spacing. He gets easy hit confirms, and the scaled damage is not a big problem since you’ll be trying to level up Frank. Is it just me, or is this assist a really good fit for Spider-Man?
I’ve been meaning to lab out Spidey/Frank/Vergil. Imo Spidey/Frank is only viable if you can solidly threaten a come back in games where spidey dies without being able to level Frank.
Any team with frank, your main goal will be to level frank. The great assist is the bonus. Once you level up frank, there are 2 options.
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Bring spider-man back in on point. You’re still probably not breaking 1 mil damage with a level up frank dhc. Even if you are doing everything from getting resets to killing characters, frank is just there for the assist. So why level him up in the first place?
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Keep level up frank as point. This is the most common approach to frank teams. You get really good neutral and sick incoming mixups. So you gotta ask yourself, what does spider-man do for frank? We all know spider-man’s assists suck, dhc’s? thc’s? Tac’s? Spider-man doesnt provide anything for frank that some other character doesn’t. This is why you will always see spider-man on point.