The Street Fighter V Lounge: We all gotta chill 'til the end of April

[Volt]

Throws are 5 frame start-up, not 4. :razz:

I think 5 frame throws are fine, I just wish moves had less pushback on block and/or had more range. Like with Chun, she has solid enough data on her frame trap tools but the pushback makes it harder to properly threaten with a throw since she has to walk so far forward, even with the throw range buff. She still has IALL but the risk/reward isn’t really her favor on that anymore.

Conversely, Juri has really short normals which makes it harder to stagger strings effectively, especially since her st.mp got a hitbox nerf.

Compared to SF x TK which also had 5 frame throws but less pushback/longer ranged normals, plus the ability to threaten with damage from a normal from pretty much any range, so you had more options you could go for in any given situation to make yourself a threat. That’s pretty much what SFV needs right now…more options. Not only being allowed to do the stuff that Capcom has pre-approved.

I completely agree with this. Lack of ranged damage options really hurts and makes the game feel very binary, lacking nuance.

It is a shame because some characters like Ken have some moves like his st.HP and st.MK-HK TC that allows him to convert into something meaningful from a decent range.

In this game outside something like ryus fhp or chuns fhk in v trigger… or a v pop… most characters can’t get good damage outside a CH… which exacerbates the issue. No one wants to play footsies cause footsies don’t get you any damage.

About footsies, I don’t think damage is the main reason we don’t see as much back and forth as we would like. In other titles you have less normals to control the space in front of you. In sfv every character can use a much higher variety of pokes, making it way harder to counter poke/whiff punish. That’s also one of the reasons why people think this game is random

Actually I change my mind… I know what you are talking about now. what you are saying is that there are so many viable moves to “play footsies” with that it’s hard to react to them cause it could be like one of 6 different moves.

Well that definitely true. But I think it’s worse than that. With sweeps being so bad on block now you can’t just “throw them out” and with sweeps also not giving hard knockdown that means wiff punishing has no teeth and requires a hard read unlike the old school games where you could “wiff punish” with something safe on block.

Like it makes sense that rog wiff punishes with dash straight much better than with sweep… as an example.

That’s why this whole “commitment” thing is really dumb. No place in a strategic game. My commitment should be up to my opponent to decide, not the game.

Well, at least CC Sweeps function as a good reward for those reads.

I think that the main issue is that buttons tend to be too stubby and bad on block. (Not necessarily unsafe, pushback is bad.)
Even the few non-CC longer pokes like Ryu’s St. MK leads to nothing.

So you often have to look for Crush Counters as the only combination of range and reward for neutral. This leads to people spamming CCs until they get close and mashing Jabs when they are close with very little options in between.

[willseless]

Most of these online fuckers are assholes.
Sometimes I doubt someone is a dick though, especially when I deny a runback myself because the connection was complete dick and I only won because I went yolo.

Also sorted my games today, opened SF4 AE for some reason, and holy shit that thing had an instruction manual.
Remember when they did instruction manuals? Buying a game and reading the manual in anticipation of an amazing game on your way home?
Some 80’s/90’s memories are cool.

My mother used to read Super Mario World manual for me before bed.

[Quark]

Well, at least CC Sweeps function as a good reward for those reads.

you don’t get a CC for whiff punishing, outside of whiffed DPs

only way you’re going to land counter-hits with sweep in neutral is by pressing it at random times in the hopes that your opponent pressed a button too

[purbeast]

I think Balrog needs a buff where he gets his 1 hit of armor added to his EX dash straight like in SF4. They already have it on his upper, why not add it to his dash straight?

Can you imagine all of the salt and tears if that happened?

[willseless]

In 10 years you will be streaming fighting games through a microchip in your brain.
And Capcom will be using mobbdepp as a host server

Rootkit in our brains. Can’t wait.

[Maryokutai]

I think Balrog needs a buff where he gets his 1 hit of armor added to his EX dash straight like in SF4. They already have it on his upper, why not add it to his dash straight?

Can you imagine all of the salt and tears if that happened?

If they also make it as slow as in SFIV yo sou can react to it with a CA then sure, go for it.

[Cathrao]

I forgot how bad SFIV’s training room music is. this is the only music bad enough to make me wish I was listening to SFV’s training room music.

i actually have it turned down usually, but pc sf4 has issues remembering my volume settings for whatever reason so sometimes it’s up or down.

Don’t know if this is what you mean, but SF4 PC is always louder on boot-up, but makes itself ~50% quiter once you alt-tab (regardless of the audio settings).

Reason/Logic? Dimps be crazy.

[Volt]

Well, at least CC Sweeps function as a good reward for those reads.

you don’t get a CC for whiff punishing, outside of whiffed DPs

only way you’re going to land counter-hits with sweep in neutral is by pressing it at random times in the hopes that your opponent pressed a button too

Counter hit in this game feels kinda weird. You gotta hit them in the Startup and Active frames, right?
You’re right then, Sweeps are too slow to be counter-poking. My bad.

… Buff sweeps, Capcom! We want buttons!

[Akhos]

I forgot how bad SFIV’s training room music is. this is the only music bad enough to make me wish I was listening to SFV’s training room music.

i actually have it turned down usually, but pc sf4 has issues remembering my volume settings for whatever reason so sometimes it’s up or down.

Don’t know if this is what you mean, but SF4 PC is always louder on boot-up, but makes itself ~50% quiter once you alt-tab (regardless of the audio settings).

Reason/Logic? Dimps be crazy.

You think that’s bad, try adjusting your audio settings in SF x TK on PC. Some audio clips are unaffected by changing the volume settings, so if you say, lower things to 50%, when your character does a launcher (one of the main audio clips with this problem), they’ll shout their line at full volume.

Or there’s the fact that if you turn the music “off” it doesn’t actually shut off the music completely…

[Volt]

I think Balrog needs a buff where he gets his 1 hit of armor added to his EX dash straight like in SF4. They already have it on his upper, why not add it to his dash straight?

Can you imagine all of the salt and tears if that happened?

I was actually surprised that it didn’t had armor when I played him in survival. It’s fair, sure, otherwise we’d get V-Skilled EX Tackle levels of salt and Balrog would maul Sim even harder. But I still got surprised.

[amrraed]

I think Balrog needs a buff where he gets his 1 hit of armor added to his EX dash straight like in SF4. They already have it on his upper, why not add it to his dash straight?

Can you imagine all of the salt and tears if that happened?

If they also make it as slow as in SFIV yo sou can react to it with a CA then sure, go for it.

Can they also not make it plus on block please ?

[pootnannies]

Throws are 5 frame start-up, not 4. :razz:

I think 5 frame throws are fine, I just wish moves had less pushback on block and/or had more range. Like with Chun, she has solid enough data on her frame trap tools but the pushback makes it harder to properly threaten with a throw since she has to walk so far forward, even with the throw range buff. She still has IALL but the risk/reward isn’t really her favor on that anymore.

Conversely, Juri has really short normals which makes it harder to stagger strings effectively, especially since her st.mp got a hitbox nerf.

Compared to SF x TK which also had 5 frame throws but less pushback/longer ranged normals, plus the ability to threaten with big damage from a normal from pretty much any range, so you had more options you could go for in any given situation to make yourself a threat. That’s pretty much what SFV needs right now…more options. Not only being allowed to do the stuff that Capcom has pre-approved.

thanks for the correction.

i agree normals should have more range but if they have even less pushback on block, you’d be stuck in block strings even longer. throws worked better in past SF games since you could tick into them a lot easier because they had range and speed. in 3S for example, Chun can mix up from cr.mk range because that was almost the same distance as her kara-throw.

anyways, i think simply making AA and throws a little better would go a long way for SFV in its current state but the game has deeper issues than that like weak zoning and similar gameplay for most characters. Capcom’s ideology for 5 seems to be anti-footsies and mash heavy on offense. maybe this is what they thought would bring in beginners? one thing for sure is that it makes the game less interesting.

[Rugalitarian]

Can we please change the name of this thread to people complaining about being bad at fighting games?

[amrraed]

Throws are 5 frame start-up, not 4. :razz:

I think 5 frame throws are fine, I just wish moves had less pushback on block and/or had more range. Like with Chun, she has solid enough data on her frame trap tools but the pushback makes it harder to properly threaten with a throw since she has to walk so far forward, even with the throw range buff. She still has IALL but the risk/reward isn’t really her favor on that anymore.

Conversely, Juri has really short normals which makes it harder to stagger strings effectively, especially since her st.mp got a hitbox nerf.

Compared to SF x TK which also had 5 frame throws but less pushback/longer ranged normals, plus the ability to threaten with big damage from a normal from pretty much any range, so you had more options you could go for in any given situation to make yourself a threat. That’s pretty much what SFV needs right now…more options. Not only being allowed to do the stuff that Capcom has pre-approved.

thanks for the correction.

i agree normals should have more range but if they have even less pushback on block, you’d be stuck in block strings even longer. throws worked better in past SF games since you could tick into them a lot easier because they had range and speed. in 3S for example, Chun can mix up from cr.mk range because that was almost the same distance as her kara-throw.

anyways, i think simply making AA and throws a little better would go a long way for SFV in its current state but the game has deeper issues than that like weak zoning and similar gameplay for most characters. Capcom’s ideology for 5 seems to be anti-footsies and mash heavy on offense. maybe this is what they thought would bring in beginners? one thing for sure is that it makes the game less interesting.

I don’t think that zoning is weak. Guile is designed well enough in SF5 and the way his moves work allow him to zone really well.

I think it will just come down to character tweaking more than needing to change the game on a fundamental level. Guile is a proof that strong zoning can exist in this game if the character is designed well enough.

[YorKeY]

its gonna suck once internet is improved 10 years from now, and all these lucky kids are gonna have fast ass fighting game internet with super GGPO, i’ma be mad af.

You will be a real old 35 ~ 45 years old OG at that point. You are gonna stream the games and keep talking about how back in the days people used to T-bag each other and that the new generation haven’t seen shit.

Grandpa YorKeY

im 24 right now, living young in the mean time, don’t remind me.

[Prof]

Winter Brawl was incredibly fun. Inspired me to get off my ass and learn a bit more about this game. FINALLY sat down and learned a few new mixups and season II combos. Should probably have done that BEFORE I went, but. Such is life.

[Dime]

Throws are 5 frame start-up, not 4. :razz:

I think 5 frame throws are fine, I just wish moves had less pushback on block and/or had more range. Like with Chun, she has solid enough data on her frame trap tools but the pushback makes it harder to properly threaten with a throw since she has to walk so far forward, even with the throw range buff. She still has IALL but the risk/reward isn’t really her favor on that anymore.

Conversely, Juri has really short normals which makes it harder to stagger strings effectively, especially since her st.mp got a hitbox nerf.

Compared to SF x TK which also had 5 frame throws but less pushback/longer ranged normals, plus the ability to threaten with big damage from a normal from pretty much any range, so you had more options you could go for in any given situation to make yourself a threat. That’s pretty much what SFV needs right now…more options. Not only being allowed to do the stuff that Capcom has pre-approved.

thanks for the correction.

i agree normals should have more range but if they have even less pushback on block, you’d be stuck in block strings even longer. throws worked better in past SF games since you could tick into them a lot easier because they had range and speed. in 3S for example, Chun can mix up from cr.mk range because that was almost the same distance as her kara-throw.

anyways, i think simply making AA and throws a little better would go a long way for SFV in its current state but the game has deeper issues than that like weak zoning and similar gameplay for most characters. Capcom’s ideology for 5 seems to be anti-footsies and mash heavy on offense. maybe this is what they thought would bring in beginners? one thing for sure is that it makes the game less interesting.

Naw the way the game works with some exceptions to the rule is that negative things don’t have much pushback, this is to enforce the binary 50/50 on moves that are -2 (unless you are ryu)

A perfect example is rashids spinning mixer and and Laura’s l bolt. Both pretty much leave them point blank at -2 in a strike/throw/jump mixup on block.

Then you have the textbook plus on block move… st.mp. These usually have a lot of pushback on them.

Also it can be character specific. Like if they want a character to be more pressure based then they will have less pushback on plus moves and more pushback on negative moves (bison)

They’ve basically engineered the hell out of the game and it’s all very scripted and hard to get out of capcom flowchart for how they want the game to play.

The best way to get out of the flowchart and get some nuance is via changing up timings of moves.
It’s all rather boring tbh.

[OceanMachine]

@amrraed what the fuck is going on with the size of her head in your avi

[amrraed]

@amrraed what the fuck is going on with the size of her head in your avi

Japanese art at its finest.

[handa711]

Xian is right, footsies is the wrong way to play Season 2. You just can’t react to all these SAFE get-in moves that almost every character has.