The ST Debate

jms · 2006-01-21T08:02:53.000Z

taekwondonamja:

Ah come on, ce bison is’nt THAT bad.

I hope that’s not the strongest counter argument you can come up with. Did you just, ah, KIND OF hit the submit button when you posted that? If you have some meaningful reasoning, please share it!

About Bison’s crossup psycho crusher: the fact that it can crossup is not the problem. Plenty of characters have been making ambiguous jump-in crossups INTO COMBOS in SF2 since the beginning of time, and no one’s ever called 911 about that. The problem with Bison’s crossup pc is the speed of AE. CE Bison is what happens when you take one of the uglier characters from CE and put him on a whole other level, just by virtue of the game speed today.

System_1 · 2006-01-21T15:13:47.000Z

CE bison is a scrubkiller. Big deal. Let me see him win Evo hands down. It isn’t going to happen.

System_1 · 2006-01-22T15:06:07.000Z

jms:

About Bison’s crossup psycho crusher: the fact that it can crossup is not the problem. Plenty of characters have been making ambiguous jump-in crossups INTO COMBOS in SF2 since the beginning of time, and no one’s ever called 911 about that. The problem with Bison’s crossup pc is the speed of AE. CE Bison is what happens when you take one of the uglier characters from CE and put him on a whole other level, just by virtue of the game speed today.

I thought the problem with his crossup psycho is that if he does it while you wake up, you’ll be in blockstun for the first 2 hits then you have to absolutely GUESS which side the 3rd hit is coming from. When somebody does an ambiguous cross-up jump-in, at least you can make an educated guess about which side they’re landing on, based on where they jumped from. Maybe you could argue that they’re the same thing in principle, but when CEBison knocks me down and then does the wakeup pc, I’ve found it infinitely more difficult to guess correctly about which side its gonna hit me from, because it seems truely random.

System_1 · 2006-01-23T05:04:36.000Z

Hermy:

I thought the problem with his crossup psycho is that if he does it while you wake up, you’ll be in blockstun for the first 2 hits then you have to absolutely GUESS which side the 3rd hit is coming from. When somebody does an ambiguous cross-up jump-in, at least you can make an educated guess about which side they’re landing on, based on where they jumped from. Maybe you could argue that they’re the same thing in principle, but when CEBison knocks me down and then does the wakeup pc, I’ve found it infinitely more difficult to guess correctly about which side its gonna hit me from, because it seems truely random.

That’s because it is random, and it’s been like that since CE. Which is why everybody picked Bison! The endless blockstrings don’t help much either, and neither do the massive throw range and damage…pretty stupid.

jms · 2006-01-23T09:31:54.000Z

Hermy:

when CEBison knocks me down and then does the wakeup pc, I’ve found it infinitely more difficult to guess correctly about which side its gonna hit me from, because it seems truely random.

Gotcha. More wood on the fire.

dogface · 2006-01-24T03:26:06.000Z

DarksydePhil:

So instead of using my talents to better the community, let’s just ditch ST and **have fun gimmicks like XSF **and 3v3 that are fun but do nothing for competitive gaming.

Your words hurt me Phil.

-Vic

System_1 · 2006-01-24T08:02:33.000Z

dog-face:

Your words hurt me Phil.

-Vic

Obviously spoken in the heat of passion, no harm intended!

However the point was that having XSF and 3v3 is fun, but honestly does nothing for singles competitive play, which is really what EVO is all about…the “SuperBowl” of competitive fighting games. If there were no ST singles, there would be NO legitimate place to determine who is the best in ST.

System_1 · 2006-01-24T11:09:19.000Z

C’mon, at least give HSF a chance. If because of anything, the new people learning old school SF will be learning this, and not ST.

CE Bison is a monster yeah, but he can be firetrapped somewhat, and has lackluster anti-air reversal and is prone to ticks because of it.

I’m not saying it’s easy, hell no, but those CE korea guys seem to have no real qualms with it, if that means anything.

CigarBoB · 2006-01-25T22:05:52.000Z

Best Kind Boxer:

C’mon, at least give HSF a chance. If because of anything, the new people learning old school SF will be learning this, and not ST.

He has a point here. 90% of the new kids playing OG sf will be on HSF. And it would make for an intresting tourny. Maybe stupid as shit but at least intresting.

Do HSF for one year. If it holds up and ppl like it run with it.

So what about the Alpha collections that is coming out now? Any chance of a A3 being introduced if the port is close enough to the arcade?

A-Dhalsim · 2006-01-26T00:38:30.000Z

I have already passed my idea onto the SRK staff, so hopefully they see the goodness in it. Here it goes: Cigarbob says he is bringing 4 of his amazing cabinets to EVO this year. I don’t see a problem with having ST be the only arcade tournament to be held. Cigarbobs cabinets make it easy to use arcade boards and ST is the fastest flowing tournament EVO has. It can be done quick and easy with virtually no problems.

So why not just have ST as arcade on cigarbobs cabinets? Quick, easy and fast. It can still count as one of the major games and we dont have to worry about choosing a crap version for this year.

Hopefully by next year Capcom will release a flawless ST on Xboxlive Arcade and we will never have to deal with this problem again.

I don’t see any problems in this situation besides the fact that ST will be the only arcade game at EVO. So?

J-Cole

Jaguarandine · 2006-01-26T02:31:37.000Z

Well, it could alienate some of the pad/controller players who might otherwise have competed in the tourney, possibly bringing ST’s turnout down. Personally, I think it’s a great idea though.

A-Dhalsim · 2006-01-26T05:02:53.000Z

I would like to keep ST official. This idea can work, I believe the player turn out will be the same regardless of pad/stick issues. Everyone who is into this game are used to arcade style. Since console has no true translation and we have the luxury of Cigarbobs cabinet , why not just have it on Arcade. Everything works out fine =)

J-Cole

NKI · 2006-01-28T00:22:03.000Z

Wow, I can’t believe no one mentioned CE Bison’s redizzy combo…which is extremely practical…and not hard to do…

THChardcore · 2006-01-28T07:44:05.000Z

Thank you as well CIgarbob, singles will be amazing

UCRJesse · 2006-01-31T08:45:29.000Z

EDIT:

[20:12] <FMJaguar> UCR_Jesse: on the page before your post ST singles were all but confirmed
[20:12] <The_Chef> were they 360 joysticks also?
[20:12] <UCR_Jesse> oh ok i’ll go take it off
[20:12] <FMJaguar> although your points are probably right, the premise is a little late
[20:12] <The_Chef> slant + 360 = peace out
[20:12] <UCR_Jesse> i’ll change it to suck my frankenberries

SUCK MY FRANKENBERRIES

System_1 · 2006-02-01T23:22:21.000Z

ive seen people play old Ken in ST mode in AE… (arcade version of AE) not sure if it works on PS2
that way ST characters can tech throws

System_1 · 2006-02-05T06:46:44.000Z

I’d was actually planning on going to evo either this year or the next to play Super Turbo aswell as other games but mainly Super Turbo along with a group of friends. Please don’t replace it with hsf2, if people wanted to play hsf2 then people would have stopped playing ST when hsf2 came out. If you do all i can see now is ce/hf kens and ryu’s, ce guile and ce bison. It be like xbl all over again

Mert · 2006-02-05T08:17:19.000Z

There’s alot of problems with HSF. They have all been mentioned so I won’t ramble on about them but here they are in a nutshell: Speed differences, CE Bison, WW Cast (no mirror matches). To me it seems it should remain a ST only tourny. If you use the AE edition make it SuperT characters only maybe?

Also if people want to play CE’/Turbo characters I think a SFII CE’/Turbo would be sweet. I duno what it would be played on, preferably arcade, def not AE too many differnces between the AE version and the real CE’/Turbo. Just a thought.

System_1 · 2006-02-09T23:32:00.000Z

It looks like HSF has won the poll, and so it might get its own tournament. This is great news for me, because now I’ll have ST singles and team on CigarBob’s cab, and then HSF singles on console. Too good!
People, please…STOP saying we should have AE but only pick ST characters. That game has some differences from ST even if you pick ST characters…for example, the inability to tech throws when somebody picks an “old” version of a character, the nerfing of O.Sagat, etc. If you don’t know any better, please don’t speak up…

System_1 · 2006-02-11T22:35:54.000Z

DarksydePhil:

It looks like HSF has won the poll, and so it might get its own tournament. This is great news for me, because now I’ll have ST singles and team on CigarBob’s cab, and then HSF singles on console. Too good!

People, please…STOP saying we should have AE but only pick ST characters. That game has some differences from ST even if you pick ST characters…for example, the inability to tech throws when somebody picks an “old” version of a character, the nerfing of O.Sagat, etc. If you don’t know any better, please don’t speak up…

I agree! In the end, we may be able to lockdown a clear old school champ:) Will Gian take it again? Hell no!!!

3 old school tournaments and SFA3? Along with everything else I don’t think Evo will ever have been better for StreetFighter. All I need now is the show. If theme music is back then I’ll have to work 2 jobs to bring all of my friends for the best Evolution ever!

Is this all confirmed yet? Who do I thank?